Are you enjoying the endgame?

[Keren]

See, here's the beauty part of GW2 design. We never outlevel/outgear the content.

So on top of all the 25 zones full of 1500 dynamic events, 39 jump puzzles, 25 dungeons, minigames, etc. crapton of content, everytime they add content we will have more. Content that is never trivialized, never out of date, never not worth running.

Compare that to MMOs that use a model of one raid only at level cap. Content so thin they have to stretch it out with a gear check/gear grind.

It really is quite brilliant.

Most of the content isn't neccesary, because they dont give you lvl appropriated loot after you dinged 80. Thus only events with chest loot are relevant. Moreover you need the skill points after lvl 80. Thus every every DE that dont give enough silver for the port there and back (because you will not want to pay more than you get every DE) + a decent amount of exp can get dropped. After these regularities only lvl ~70++ are relevant endgame. Mostly even higher DE, exceptional great chest awarding DE like the dragons each hour, there is no really relevant end-game content.

Gear checks / gear grinds (no aestethical) and content blocking huge enemies are the most encouraging things for players, look at Diablo II, III, Rift, WoW, SWTOR and even more rpgs where your hero get stronger! (A thing that is in GW 2 not possbile, because you get downscaled.) Coming from this, after you get your max stats, which isn't near a challenge, rather than a grind - there is nothing todo.


You can't compare GW2 with other known mmo games, and thats a problem most of the new playerbase struggle with. I've never palyed gw1, and thought I'll get a next gene 'AAA' mmo with new mechanics, but I got a hyped something else with new mechanics. The only thing which could me get playing is wvwvw, which is more like PvPvE. Raid this city, catch the donkeys, invade the enemy to steal the "flag". When you went with the zerg, you does something dumb.

[Deleted]

The following is something I typed as a response to this thread, which got locked as I was typing. I still felt like it needed to be said somewhere, so here it is.

---

There is no endgame, there is all the endgame, there is some endgame. Any of these can fit depending on what you think "endgame" is.

If you're schooled into thinking "endgame" is an activity that you're only able to do at max level, which should be the core of an MMO and differ greatly from what you've already done, GW2 has no endgame.

If you're of the mindset that "endgame" is something that you can do at max level, that provides somewhat of a challenge and gives you relevant rewards for your character, the entire game is endgame, starting from level 2. I personally belong in this group, and I frequently receive hatred for it.

If you do research on what the game is and isn't before you buy the game, and go into the game with your mind already made up that "when I get to level 80, I'll be wanting to do this activity", then the game has some endgame. The activity in question is irrelevant. It could be exploring, it could be assembling the coolest looking outfit you can think of, it could be finishing every jumping puzzle, it could be dominating PvP, it could be helping new players. Some of these have a clear and definite goal, others are practically endless.

Bottom line is, "there is no endgame" is just as wrong as "all the game is endgame" (which is why I love countering the first with the second, because nobody is able to prove or disprove either). Just find out for yourself what you want from the game and go from there.

[Fencers]

Torchlight is basically just one of many indie Diablo clones, so I wouldn't say it needs to measure up to a major developer's ARPG, Deus Ex is a single player only series, so I don't compare it to primarily multiplayer focused series like Call of Duty, and I don't know what Sleeping Dogs is, except that it's a video game

Kinda missing the point and incorrect on a number of things here. Which is odd because you choose to focus on individual game's specifically but ignore the granularity of each. Not good.

Guild Wars 2 is a "AAA" MMO, funded and published by a major player in the market (NC Soft), so I don't think it's unreasonable to compare it to another "AAA" MMO such as WoW. You can argue that WoW is a once in a lifetime phenomenon, and remove it from the list of valid comparisons, but then we're just going back to what I said earlier, about limiting Guild Wars 2's potential

Yea, this is fairer. This is what you should have said instead of that other stuff. WoW is totally a valid comparison. It's simply not a realistic one. Plenty of MMOs are alive and successful in the market right now that equal or exceed World of Warcraft's production with fewer sales and subscribers.

So again, most games won't meet that criteria of success. Regardless of genre. What many games can meet is at the least a minimal level sustainability and [typically] a measure of profitability. Really unlikely GW2 wouldn't meet either of those.

Once more, your point of comparison w/r/t to "success" is by turns unrealistic and laughable. There isn't a reason why you are relating this fantastical measure of "true success" to GW2 other than this being the GW2 forum. As it could apply to almost any game. Most games, actually.

I'm sorry, but I don't think there is much to say on this anymore. Your point of comparison of " true success" is simply not sensible.

[Shadylol]

The following is something I typed as a response to this thread, which got locked as I was typing. I still felt like it needed to be said somewhere, so here it is.

---

There is no endgame, there is all the endgame, there is some endgame. Any of these can fit depending on what you think "endgame" is.

If you're schooled into thinking "endgame" is an activity that you're only able to do at max level, which should be the core of an MMO and differ greatly from what you've already done, GW2 has no endgame.

If you're of the mindset that "endgame" is something that you can do at max level, that provides somewhat of a challenge and gives you relevant rewards for your character, the entire game is endgame, starting from level 2. I personally belong in this group, and I frequently receive hatred for it.

If you do research on what the game is and isn't before you buy the game, and go into the game with your mind already made up that "when I get to level 80, I'll be wanting to do this activity", then the game has some endgame. The activity in question is irrelevant. It could be exploring, it could be assembling the coolest looking outfit you can think of, it could be finishing every jumping puzzle, it could be dominating PvP, it could be helping new players. Some of these have a clear and definite goal, others are practically endless.

Bottom line is, "there is no endgame" is just as wrong as "all the game is endgame" (which is why I love countering the first with the second, because nobody is able to prove or disprove either). Just find out for yourself what you want from the game and go from there.

Endgame is really just another word for content, it doesn't really matter if you have to level up first. Guild Wars 2 doesn't really have anything that would normally be called "endgame content". If you think that grinding events that have you kill XYZ waves of mobs is comparable to other games' endgame content, then sure, Guild Wars 2 has loads of content. Otherwise, it's severely lacking

[Deleted]

Last time i checked nemro82 PvE gear with justice points are predictable and beter than the random drops:P

yeah, like anyone cares about JP...

[Deleted]

there is no endgame

[Deleted]

Endgame is really just another word for content, it doesn't really matter if you have to level up first. Guild Wars 2 doesn't really have anything that would normally be called "endgame content". If you think that grinding events that have you kill XYZ waves of mobs is comparable to other games' endgame content, then sure, Guild Wars 2 has loads of content. Otherwise, it's severely lacking

If "endgame" is another word for "content", "endgame content" is a redundant statement, and is equal to saying "content content" or "endgame endgame". Fortunately, endgame isn't a synonym to content at all.

end·game (also end game)
n.
1. Games The final stage of a chess game after most of the pieces have been removed from the board.
2. The final stage of an extended process or course of events: the diplomatic endgame that led to the treaty.

con·tent
n.
The substantive or meaningful part: "The brain is hungry not for method but for content, especially content which contains generalizations that are powerful, precise, and explicit" (Frederick Turner).

To say that endgame equals content is like saying sugar equals chocolate. Sugar is a part of chocolate, but it's not the entirety of it.

[Deleted]

I'm not worried about GW2. I'm worried about gaming in general.

I'm terrified that games like diablo3 or recent CoD had such huge sales. CoD had terrible graphics, the most cliché "story" (seriously, ingredient list on my cereal box looks more fascinating) and is the pinnacle of simplifying the FPS genre. Every step during the campaign they made sure you don't have to think even for a second - in doubt? Just run forward, it always works. Weapons are all the same and they didn't even try to make them look or feel real.

Same goes with D3. Rushed and thanks to that unfinished, shallow and the most not-thought-through game in history of gaming. Yet it broke, what, 8mln in sales? Amazing.

The trend in gaming industry is making me shiver as they totally forgot about quality or depth of games. Now, most games are more like films, where you have to press a button from time to time and you are guaranteed to finish them. WoW is no exception, by buying a box you are guaranteed to finish whole content. You just press a button and bang, you are in a heroic(heroic.. trolololololo) dungeon. Very similar button LFR gives you instant kill of Deathwing.

Less challenge = sells better
Less complexity = sells better
Less required input/action/effort from players = sells better
Shallow story = sells better

Right now, I can't think of a game which was published this year with enough depth, complexity and interactive environment which could rival original and first DooM game... I feel old.. so so old :'/.

[Deleted]

CoD had terrible graphics, the most cliché "story" (seriously, ingredient list on my cereal box looks more fascinating) and is the pinnacle of simplifying the FPS genre. Every step during the campaign they made sure you don't have to think even for a second - in doubt? Just run forward, it always works. Weapons are all the same and they didn't even try to make them look or feel real.

While reading that, I couldn't stop thinking about Duty Calls: the Calm Before the Storm. Google it, it's hilarious.

[Deleted]

Endgame is really just another word for content, it doesn't really matter if you have to level up first. Guild Wars 2 doesn't really have anything that would normally be called "endgame content". If you think that grinding events that have you kill XYZ waves of mobs is comparable to other games' endgame content, then sure, Guild Wars 2 has loads of content. Otherwise, it's severely lacking

Very true, and as others have said in the thread, yes the leveling was quite interesting but for me and im sure many others it was kept extra interesting because we had a hope that there'd be a nice carrot at the end once we reached max and could start doing the "real" end game, if I had known that there would've been nothing I dont think I could have really bothered to be honest, I might as well just have played skyrim and ended up with more stuff to do in "end game" compared to this.

[Galaddriel]

Very true, and as others have said in the thread, yes the leveling was quite interesting but for me and im sure many others it was kept extra interesting because we had a hope that there'd be a nice carrot at the end once we reached max and could start doing the "real" end game, if I had known that there would've been nothing I dont think I could have really bothered to be honest, I might as well just have played skyrim and ended up with more stuff to do in "end game" compared to this.

How many of the 25 dungeons did you do? LOL

[DrakeWurrum]

I'm not worried about GW2. I'm worried about gaming in general.

I'm terrified that games like diablo3 or recent CoD had such huge sales. CoD had terrible graphics, the most cliché "story" (seriously, ingredient list on my cereal box looks more fascinating) and is the pinnacle of simplifying the FPS genre. Every step during the campaign they made sure you don't have to think even for a second - in doubt? Just run forward, it always works. Weapons are all the same and they didn't even try to make them look or feel real.

Same goes with D3. Rushed and thanks to that unfinished, shallow and the most not-thought-through game in history of gaming. Yet it broke, what, 8mln in sales? Amazing.

The trend in gaming industry is making me shiver as they totally forgot about quality or depth of games. Now, most games are more like films, where you have to press a button from time to time and you are guaranteed to finish them. WoW is no exception, by buying a box you are guaranteed to finish whole content. You just press a button and bang, you are in a heroic(heroic.. trolololololo) dungeon. Very similar button LFR gives you instant kill of Deathwing.

Less challenge = sells better
Less complexity = sells better
Less required input/action/effort from players = sells better
Shallow story = sells better

Right now, I can't think of a game which was published this year with enough depth, complexity and interactive environment which could rival original and first DooM game... I feel old.. so so old :'/.

Sad state of the world, but it's true that marketing for the masses results in all of that. I'm not crossing my fingers in hoping that humanity reverses direction without some worldwide major tragedy.

[Deleted]

Won't cry about that, actually.
I love a challenge now and then, but people have nuff troubles away from their computers, there's no need to go crazy while playin too.

[Ravenblade]

I enjoy the "endgame". Here is why:

1.) I am pretty open and less dogmatized to new approaches to a genre. Sure PVE content might not be perfect and they may not leave everything as is anyway. I am happy they are trying to get away from current design dogmas and someone could say they should not have tried too much different approaches and stuck with some traditions otherwise they may risk long-term failure. However the worse thing than failing sometimes is not trying at all.

2.) Once upon a time I used to be a very active raider to the point I'd get upset when I lost a spot due to certain circumstances like me being late from work. Endgame was a very consuming and daily commitment and it was very hard to quit because of the things I am going to miss after all endgame was the game in general for me. I am glad that now I do not have to follow stringent time constraints, have to be overcommit in order to experience the game as is. I can play it right from the get-go and have fun while doing it.

3.) I used to think myself as not particularly as PVP player in MMORPGs for various reasons and tried to avoid it as often as possible. Now all I am doing basically is PVPing in GW2 and having a blast at it. So I exchanged cravings for high-end raiding with the dynamic commitment to PVP activities of GW2.

[DrakeWurrum]

Won't cry about that, actually.
I love a challenge now and then, but people have nuff troubles away from their computers, there's no need to go crazy while playin too.

Some people enjoy hobbies that challenge their intellectual prowess and/or their hand-eye coordination. There's a reason people out there enjoy playing chess!

I have hobbies that I partake in for when I want to just "relax" - often this is watching American Dad, Family Guy, Futurama, or even South Park. I use my brain so little I swear watching these shows makes me dumber (I often am reminded of scenes from these shows in random interactions with people both offline and online, and it's making me wonder...).

I also have hobbies for when I want to engage my mind, because I get bored pretty easy when I don't. Or, at the least, I'd like to engage in something that requires split-second reaction times.

There have actually been studies finding that modern games that require good hand-eye coordination and quick-thinking problem-solving skills improve a person's cognitive reasoning.

[Deleted]

I'm not worried about GW2. I'm worried about gaming in general.

I'm terrified that games like diablo3 or recent CoD had such huge sales. CoD had terrible graphics, the most cliché "story" (seriously, ingredient list on my cereal box looks more fascinating) and is the pinnacle of simplifying the FPS genre. Every step during the campaign they made sure you don't have to think even for a second - in doubt? Just run forward, it always works. Weapons are all the same and they didn't even try to make them look or feel real.

Same goes with D3. Rushed and thanks to that unfinished, shallow and the most not-thought-through game in history of gaming. Yet it broke, what, 8mln in sales? Amazing.

The trend in gaming industry is making me shiver as they totally forgot about quality or depth of games. Now, most games are more like films, where you have to press a button from time to time and you are guaranteed to finish them. WoW is no exception, by buying a box you are guaranteed to finish whole content. You just press a button and bang, you are in a heroic(heroic.. trolololololo) dungeon. Very similar button LFR gives you instant kill of Deathwing.

Less challenge = sells better
Less complexity = sells better
Less required input/action/effort from players = sells better
Shallow story = sells better

Right now, I can't think of a game which was published this year with enough depth, complexity and interactive environment which could rival original and first DooM game... I feel old.. so so old :'/.

COD isn't about the singleplayer, if you are playing that then yo uare doing it wrong. It's about the multiplayer.

As a multiplayer game COD is one of the best games no doubt. As a singleplayer game it is a POS.

thanks to drake for catching that typo

[DrakeWurrum]

COD isn't about the multiplayer .... It's about the multiplayer.

O_o I think you made a typo!

[dokilar]

i love the WvW. its amazing, the queue times are a big long, but i suspect they will even out once people relocate and stuff.

im also enjoying the explorable 5 mans. some of them can be quite tricky and are pretty entertaining and the amount of dynamic events going on in Orr is quite staggering. i cant run from one way point to another without seeing 1 or 2 dynamic events popping up, sometimes its more like 3 or 4

---------- Post added 2012-09-18 at 11:04 AM ----------

COD isn't about the multiplayer, if you are playing that then yo uare doing it wrong. It's about the multiplayer.

As a multiplayer game COD is one of the best games no doubt.

i think what you ment to say was CoD isnt about the campaign, its about the multiplayer. and while i agree to an extent, what does the multiplater aspect of the game offer from one version to the next (thats released within a year of each other most likely) other than some new maps and a few new weapons?

dont get me wrong, i played quite a bit of CoD with friends and thoroughly enjoyed it, that being said when they started releasing one, what seemed like every year, with minimal updates it became more about quantity than quality.

just my opinion however

[Deleted]

Some people enjoy hobbies that challenge their intellectual prowess and/or their hand-eye coordination. There's a reason people out there enjoy playing chess!

I have hobbies that I partake in for when I want to just "relax" - often this is watching American Dad, Family Guy, Futurama, or even South Park. I use my brain so little I swear watching these shows makes me dumber (I often am reminded of scenes from these shows in random interactions with people both offline and online, and it's making me wonder...).

I also have hobbies for when I want to engage my mind, because I get bored pretty easy when I don't. Or, at the least, I'd like to engage in something that requires split-second reaction times.

There have actually been studies finding that modern games that require good hand-eye coordination and quick-thinking problem-solving skills improve a person's cognitive reasoning.

Everything proper, as always Drake.
I was just stating my very personal case and opinion here, just to be clear.

[Deleted]

As a multiplayer game COD is one of the best games no doubt.

Must.. resist.. .. .. . .. .FFFFFFFUUU.... For the sake of my ability to post here, I will not comment your post.

I was getting off topic anyway. As for the GW2 itself. I'm enjoying it. Getting full exotic gear with the stats I wanted was bit too easy though. I knew rare would be easy but I thought you'd have to work a bit for exotic one.

Like probably everyone I have full CoF and Arah set plus weapons, so now we are farming inquest. I'm also thinking about legendary weapon, but didn't decide on which one I want ;s - got tons of mats though so maybe it won't take much time.

So yeah, enjoying it. I wasn't blown away, but even farming the easiest possible paths of explo mode is more engaging than raiding - I get to push more buttons . That's actually fun, I remember I had full UI of spells/macros/abilities back in WoW - but used only 3 ;p. Now I have bit over 10, but I've actually get to use all of them.