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  1. #101
    Mechagnome Loaf's Avatar
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    I don't think voting yourself should be disallowed. Sure you can argue "they're not playing to win" especially if they're one vote from death anyways, but sometimes(and this is rare) you can use it to deter votes if you're near death. As for mafia/sk or anyone with nk's suiciding, that's not allowed, or wasn't when I was mod. I remember one game I think it was Firebert was on one team and someone else(can't remember who now, maybe Anakso?) was on the other and they figured they stood no chance to beat the town and wanted to kill themselves. I told em they couldn't do that so they killed each other instead lol

    I'd give you an inch, you'd take me a mile, your tail wagging happily all the while.

  2. #102
    I'm happy with the way this game ended. Voting no lynch was the only play the town had, even if it guaranteed a SK win. It was possible Silkku wouldn't have known who the mafia was, or that he would have made a mistake and hit town, but again, Dyra ruined both of those possibilities with the role claim and all =p

  3. #103
    Deleted
    To sum up my thoughts:
    There should be only one BT and they should only activate if town doesn't agree on anything at the end of the night so on a majority no-lynch vote BT wouldn't activate

    Actively playing against one's victory conditions shouldn't be allowed

    Suicide should not be option (self voting allowed)

    Umm...yea, that was pretty much all. From the Cop/Doc/Mafia/Dead I've gathered that people don't seem to like VT role for some reason. I don't actually quite understand why though. It gives you free hands and makes you "one of the many", it's not like it's some punishment and means you should go AFK.

    Oh, and Dead thread, Dyra's decisions in thegame turned out like they did because I did some skulduggery with PM's and left misleading posts on purpose for the NoCooky account, it wasn't Dyra making odd decisions :S

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Silkku View Post
    Actively playing against one's victory conditions shouldn't be allowed

    Suicide should not be option (self voting allowed)
    I agree on both points, with a bit of a caveat. If someone gets duped (or dupes them-self) into unknowingly acting against their win condition they shouldn't be stopped. Otherwise anytime the town voted to lynch a townie we'd have to step in and stop it. That's just silly.

    I sort of still feel like self voting shouldn't be allowed either. Imo you agreed to play the game, so play. Killing yourself is lame.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by keleb View Post
    Is it a problem? Should it be forbidden to role claim a scum role? Should it be forbidden to vote yourself? Should it just be clearly stated that you should always play towards your factions goal? What should be the action if such a rule is not followed? Should nothing be done?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyra View Post
    As for the voting on one's self and Scum role claiming..... well. I'm guilty of both this game so I can't really say.
    Quote Originally Posted by Worgenite View Post
    I don't think voting yourself should be disallowed. Sure you can argue "they're not playing to win" especially if they're one vote from death anyways, but sometimes(and this is rare) you can use it to deter votes if you're near death. As for mafia/sk or anyone with nk's suiciding, that's not allowed, or wasn't when I was mod. I remember one game I think it was Firebert was on one team and someone else(can't remember who now, maybe Anakso?) was on the other and they figured they stood no chance to beat the town and wanted to kill themselves. I told em they couldn't do that so they killed each other instead lol
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  6. #106
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    I agree on both points, with a bit of a caveat. If someone gets duped (or dupes them-self) into unknowingly acting against their win condition they shouldn't be stopped. Otherwise anytime the town voted to lynch a townie we'd have to step in and stop it. That's just silly.

    I sort of still feel like self voting shouldn't be allowed either. Imo you agreed to play the game, so play. Killing yourself is lame.
    Yeah of course it would be silly to stop people if they are doing it out of getting tricked (Like I did for Dyra this game). Heck, even Eniah trying to make Mafia win could be treated as legal action
    (although I'd prefer if people would try to trick others in turn instead of just going "I lost". Kisuro and Eniah could have tried to manipulate me into NKing Dyra for example)
    but as an example out of this game, Dyra actively thinking how to get Town into a better position would be disallowed

  7. #107
    Field Marshal Krayzy's Avatar
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    Everyone keeps saying that they "think people hate playing as a VT" and that is the reason activity has gone down (though I really question how much the activity has gone down), but at the same time I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone actually say they don't like being a VT. I think most have agreed that they enjoy the game just the same.

    This all seems like some sort of projecting trying to come up with a reason others aren't as active in these games, but if you actually look at forum activity for many of these people you'll see their posting is down across the board. It's what happens when people get busier in real life or move on to other things.



    I still propose we go back to a more normal game. Hell, this games setup would be fine if we hadn't had the BT VT's or a cannibal with a vest.

    Just think of how interesting the end of this game could have been had it been Eniah, Kisuro, Dyra, and Silkku facing off (without a vest) at the end of it. Silkku would've had to have taken a risk that Dyra wouldn't kill him in order to guarantee a win. Dyra would've had to figure out who the SK was and then go for the night kill while also hoping she wasn't the SK's night kill target...and then even if she got her kill off she would have had to convince one of the townies to vote with her on that last day. The townies would have both had to hope they survived that night and then figure out who to vote for on the last day.

    It could have been a fun last day and a half if it wasn't for the vest. It could've been a fun entire game if it wasn't for people focusing so much on BT VT's and letting that dominate the beginning of the game.

    Give me simplicity.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-20 at 02:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    I agree on both points, with a bit of a caveat. If someone gets duped (or dupes them-self) into unknowingly acting against their win condition they shouldn't be stopped. Otherwise anytime the town voted to lynch a townie we'd have to step in and stop it. That's just silly.

    I sort of still feel like self voting shouldn't be allowed either. Imo you agreed to play the game, so play. Killing yourself is lame.
    I disagree on self voting to a point. There are times where it is advantageous to your team. Those times are when you want to limit the daytime discussion so that other members of your team can't be linked to you before night. It then makes it so you can night kill a person that you would think would put 2 and 2 together and thus make it so they never get a chance to tell everyone else.

  8. #108
    I agree that the SK being NK immune is too much power to also be a cannibal. Especially if you're going to rule a 1v1 during the day a scum win. Winning as SK should be really difficult, but with a vest and priority NKing he just has to keep a mafia alive and get the game down to ~5 players and he can't possibly lose unless people just get mad at him and lynch him because they prefer a mafia win. Silkku played well but I wonder if this set up was perhaps too easy for him, not to take away any credit.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    I agree that the SK being NK immune is too much power to also be a cannibal. Especially if you're going to rule a 1v1 during the day a scum win. Winning as SK should be really difficult, but with a vest and priority NKing he just has to keep a mafia alive and get the game down to ~5 players and he can't possibly lose unless people just get mad at him and lynch him because they prefer a mafia win. Silkku played well but I wonder if this set up was perhaps too easy for him, not to take away any credit.
    Assuming people realize who the sk is, which isn't always the case. And it is really hard to win as an SK as it is. You have to go against everyone. Also, he was only "immune" to being night killed at the end because there was only one night phase left in the game and until that point no one had targeted him because he did a great job of playing and not rousing the mafia's suspicions.

  10. #110
    Mafia were too busy killing the most active players =p

    SKs always do really well, they pretty much only ever die if the mafia happen to hit them with a night kill. On the anonymous forum I was aiming for the SK every single night and I think it took me like 5 tries to finally get him. If he had a bulletproof vest he probably would've won that game.

  11. #111
    Stood in the Fire listo95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Mafia were too busy killing the most active players =p

    SKs always do really well, they pretty much only ever die if the mafia happen to hit them with a night kill. On the anonymous forum I was aiming for the SK every single night and I think it took me like 5 tries to finally get him. If he had a bulletproof vest he probably would've won that game.
    And by mafia you mean Ana and Dyra. Right?

  12. #112
    Deleted
    I can't really say I find the v est OP or anything on SK since the odds are stacked against you from the very start (others have team to fall back on) and not getting told when the vest is consumed really balances it even more. Themissing NK on Worg forced me to play with the assumption that my vest was popped and drove me to start the misdirection PM campaign (you can follow my panic posts in SK thread)
    There is also the little thing that often when NK fails for the scum, they will target the person again.

    So if you ask me, I'd leave the vest rule as it is.

    Also, who here play on mafia scum or similiar forums? I really only know this place, MS and a Finnish Pokemon forum where people play online

  13. #113
    Mechagnome Loaf's Avatar
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    On the topic of the cannibal with the vest: Foxxi and I discovered if we gave only one type of sk(strongman) a vest, no one would ever choose anything else. We then removed the vest and all sk's had no vests just perks. Everyone started choosing ninja then b/c we had a jail immunity on it. We removed that and that's when other types started getting used. In other words, you either have to give all types a vest or no types a vest and make sure there aren't any op immunities as well.

    I'd give you an inch, you'd take me a mile, your tail wagging happily all the while.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Silkku View Post
    To sum up my thoughts:
    There should be only one BT and they should only activate if town doesn't agree on anything at the end of the night so on a majority no-lynch vote BT wouldn't activate
    Yea, I should have thought of that beforehand. Saw that when I first read it in the thread but thought it to late to change it then.

  15. #115
    Mechagnome Loaf's Avatar
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    If I'm playing, it's kinda obvious you can't discuss all the intricacies of the next game with me, but I do have a wealth of knowledge from modding a lot of games that I can share with you mods if needed :P

    I'd give you an inch, you'd take me a mile, your tail wagging happily all the while.

  16. #116
    Deleted
    Where can I find the dead thread/SK thread etc?: O

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by listo95 View Post
    And by mafia you mean Ana and Dyra. Right?
    Yes, I suppose. I believe I said in the dead thread that the only reason the game even lasted this long is that Silkku killed all the mafia for us. Feels like most games turn out that way.

  18. #118
    Deleted
    Links to threads are at the end of the game thread as usual

  19. #119
    Deleted
    Lysah, I read your comments in the dead thread about the town having a chance of victory.

    Yes, we had theoretical chance of winning, however any SK with half a brain would kill a townie in that position, not the lone mafia (considering the vest, and even though Silkku didn't know if his vest was intact or not, he knew we knew he was the SK, and would therefore lynch him out if he decided to go for dyra)
    But I sort of counted on Silkku going to kill either me or Kisuro, so either way the town wouldn't have won ( at least not if the SK knew what he was doing) which is why I voted for Silkku originally rather than Dyra.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-21 at 12:24 AM ----------

    Rather than a no-lynch*

  20. #120
    Deciding you can't win and choosing who wins instead ruins the fun for everyone, in my opinion. Like I said, If Dyra/Anakso didn't decide it was over and role claim they might have won. If Dyra didn't tell Silkku exactly what to do to make sure he couldn't lose he might've lost. Is it a slim chance? Yes, but it's still a chance. In my time playing mafia other places I have NEVER seen behavior like what exists on MMOC. No one has ever given up and just tried to pick the winner so they still feel good about themselves for losing, they try to win until they're dead.

    Hell, I had a game that came down to me as the cop + 2 townies and a traitor and that was it. The traitor had no way of winning, the town could just not lynch until I investigated the right one and got the traitor tell, but he still didn't give up because giving up goes against the spirit of the game.

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