Warp Drive could Become Science fact - NASA small scale testing underway

[Fuzzzie]

Please stop with the pointless spam responses. Thanks.

[igame]

From that article it seems its at best one group of researchers just presenting their findings to NASA. No peer review of any kind done yet. I would suggest you people hold your horses for now.

Why this is remarkable is -

Mass needed for warp drive :

(First hypothesis) Entire mass of universe > Entire galactic mass > Mass of Jupiter > Mass of Voyager (Current hypothesis)

This shows that our understanding and technology is slowly enabling us to achieve what was once unthinkable !

---------- Post added 2012-09-18 at 10:34 PM ----------

WTB first space ticket off this rock PST!

Make that two please

---------- Post added 2012-09-18 at 10:37 PM ----------

Even if we master fusion (which we will rather soon) or master matter-antimatter annihilation (antimatter is the costliest material in the universe to make, by the way, several hundred billion dollars per gram), it wouldn't be enough because the only differences between those are how efficient the matter-energy-conversion is. In nuclear fission, you get less energy because less mass is turned into energy, while in fusion, about 1/4 of the mass in every reaction is turned into energy. Matter-antimatter annihilation gives a 100% energy conversion. But, as i said, this wont really be enough. You'd need to convert a planet the size of Jupiter into pure energy to generate a field strong enough to propel a ship at speed of light. Which is kind of a slow speed if we're talking about warp.

I think you did not read the article at all before posting this. While your logic is sound, the scientists have discovered the mass needed is not actually of Jupiter scale but more of Voyager spacecraft scale. Which means they can actually try to create warp at very small scales which can actually lead to better understanding and eventually the energy needed to be a lot less that even Voyager scale.

---------- Post added 2012-09-18 at 10:44 PM ----------

The energy required to accelerate something to the speed of light is infinity. I'm not sure how you propose to find infinite energy, but even if the entire (observable) universe is converted into energy it's still going to be finite. However, it doesn't hold anyone back to say that. Rather, the whole rationale for the Alcubierre drive is to bypass the insurmountable energy requirements of light speed travel.

It's nice to have an imagination, but this indignation at inconvenient realities really doesn't help.

You are as wrong as can be.
The point of the article is that something we thought needed the whole mass of universe to achieve can now be achieved with just the mass of voyager. This is a testament to our understanding and advancement and who knows if they manage the small scale experiments, they might learn a lot more and realise that the energy needed is actually a lot less than voyager.
Your statement about needed the entire observable universe as energy shows that you either did not read the article or are just trolling a scientific thread without much understanding of the subject.

---------- Post added 2012-09-18 at 10:50 PM ----------

I wonder what effect, if any, rippled space-time would have on a warped bubble of space-time. Surfs up?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19408363

Nice link. Thanks

[Theodon]

I wonder how stopping would work. And I think, even if we did create a working spacecraft, people inside it would get squished inside it from the extreme acceleration/deceleration, wouldn't they? A signal would also take ages to reach us, assuming we send an unmanned probe.

[igame]

I wonder how stopping would work. And I think, even if we did create a working spacecraft, people inside it would get squished inside it from the extreme acceleration/deceleration, wouldn't they? A signal would also take ages to reach us, assuming we send an unmanned probe.

I am not sure on the signal bit and I think communication would be a big hurdle to overcome but as far as extreme acceleration/deceleration goes you don't really do that. The ship is stationary and warped in a bubble which is warping space around you. The kinetic energy of the ship itself is zero.

---------- Post added 2012-09-18 at 10:59 PM ----------

I am not sure on the signal bit and I think communication would be a big hurdle to overcome but as far as extreme acceleration/deceleration goes you don't really do that. The ship is stationary and warped in a bubble which is warping space around you. The kinetic energy of the ship itself is zero.

A close ( but not perfect) analogy could be of surfing, you're riding the wave. However in a warp drive the motion of the wave (warp) does not give you kinetic energy.

[Shakadam]

Communication would be a problem tbh, as all kinds of signals would still have to follow the speed of light outside the "warp bubble". It would probably just be easier and faster to have drones or small spacecraft with their own warp drives to carry messages back and forth.

I'm also seeing a potential problem with sensors and stuff, you'd essentially be flying blind while inside the bubble as logically, any kind of radar waves or whatever that you send out from the ship within the bubble would be too slow to catch up with the bubble again. You'd probably have to make the trip in a series of jumps, get out of the bubble in order to scan ahead for some distance and then make another jump in warp mode and then go out of the bubble again and scan etc. Because I'm fairly certain that driving straight into/through a sun or planet, that you didn't know was there, would suck :P

[helheim]

Round trip to proxima centauri in 0.85 years. A definite improvement over our current limitations, but still hardly the whole Star Trek fantasy.

10 times the speed of light would be a mere Warp 2.15. We would be the laughing stock of the federation!

we won't be out running the borg with those times :\

[Haven]

At long last. Time to GTFO to a new planet.

[Tierbook]

Alight science i have my cake ready lets do this

[Mister K]

Gonna make sure I have a crowbar..


just sayin'

You may need more then a crowbar if the Reapers Come!

Anyway great news, seen this on FT forums and was going to share it on here but someone beet me to it heh ^^

At long last. Time to GTFO to a new planet.

Pluto issss miiinnneeeeeeee

[Annapolis]

You are as wrong as can be.
The point of the article is that something we thought needed the whole mass of universe to achieve can now be achieved with just the mass of voyager. This is a testament to our understanding and advancement and who knows if they manage the small scale experiments, they might learn a lot more and realise that the energy needed is actually a lot less than voyager.
Your statement about needed the entire observable universe as energy shows that you either did not read the article or are just trolling a scientific thread without much understanding of the subject.

I think you're missing a crucial part of the article. There has been no prior or current ability to use the mechanism he is proposing. He is theorizing that we will be able to use "exotic matter" and he is theorizing what effect it will have. His giant breakthrough is that he proposes using a doughnut shape object rather than a flat disk object. Hardly even worth an article. Don't you think if this were in the workings and on it's way to being proven it'd at least be on all of the news outlets?

[Wells]

Apparently the big hurdle they expect is how to deal with the radiation when you leave warp. As you move at superluminal speed all the nasty shit floating through space has a tendency to get caught up in your bubble and when you stop it explodes.

[Kalyyn]

Wouldn't it be funny if our entire concept of space-travel was revolutionized by some physicist saying "Hey, what if instead of a ring, we made it a donut?"

[Reeve]

Round trip to proxima centauri in 0.85 years. A definite improvement over our current limitations, but still hardly the whole Star Trek fantasy.

10 times the speed of light would be a mere Warp 2.15. We would be the laughing stock of the federation!

Kinda reminds me of how when we first made our way to the new world, it might take a couple months to cross the ocean. Now we have airplanes and can do it in a few hours.

[Milchshake]

I thought the key part of the article was "This ring, potentially made of exotic matter, would cause space-time to warp around the starship".

So all they need is some unobtanium and a blowtorch to put this together.

[Puremallace]

So the governments master plan to slowly leak out technology that we discovered from Aliens in the 50 is continuing.

[semaphore]

You are as wrong as can be.
The point of the article is that something we thought needed the whole mass of universe to achieve can now be achieved with just the mass of voyager. This is a testament to our understanding and advancement and who knows if they manage the small scale experiments, they might learn a lot more and realise that the energy needed is actually a lot less than voyager.
Your statement about needed the entire observable universe as energy shows that you either did not read the article or are just trolling a scientific thread without much understanding of the subject.

Whereas you obviously didn't read beyond the first sentence of my post (which was not dealing with an Alcubierre drive).

And the article is just proposing an improvement to a hypothetical concept that is still nowhere near achievable. Where have they found matter with negative energy density?

[Deleted]

Ugh... extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

That said, if it turns out that it really works, it will be an amazing and exciting day for science and space exploration.

---------- Post added 2012-09-19 at 02:48 AM ----------

I thought the key part of the article was "This ring, potentially made of exotic matter, would cause space-time to warp around the starship".

So all they need is some unobtanium and a blowtorch to put this together.

Bingo... there's a problem with exotic matter, that it's terribly short lived. Plus, what exotic matter are they talking about?

[semaphore]

Ugh... extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

That said, if it turns out that it really works, it will be an amazing and exciting day for science and space exploration.

The claims are not that extraordinary. It's just an adjustment of the theory that brings one particular componenet into the realms of practicality. It's not like suddenly we know how to build warp drives (we've just found the principle of what could be warp drives).

[igame]

Whereas you obviously didn't read beyond the first sentence of my post (which was not dealing with an Alcubierre drive).

And the article is just proposing an improvement to a hypothetical concept that is still nowhere near achievable. Where have they found matter with negative energy density?

50 years ago if someone spoke of controlled fusion, people would have said things very similar to what you are saying. I see your view point but it is not a scientific approach. If everyone gave up because their theories could not be proven Einstein would have torn and burnt most of the relativity papers.

As far as exotic matter go, a few years ago silicon was the god of electric appliances..one day we discover graphene and we now realise how much silicon limited the potential. Theory often drives discussion and discovery, especially a theory coming from a reputed scientists based at NASA who has been given enough access by NASA that he is allowed to test his theories at the JPL.
NASA and JPL are highly reputed institutes and with due respect, I think I will take their scientists word and theory over your invalid and rather non-scientific argument.
I do not think even wright brothers, when they opened the skies for travel could have thought that one day we would fly to moon and back just over 60 year after that flight.
Copernicus would not have seen us landing a robot on mars in his wildest dreams.

it is fine to be sceptical but I find it amusing when someone with no affiliations questions an eminent scientist who works for institutions like NASA and JPL, those people do not fib. Even if he is proven to be incorrect at some stage, he must have some basis for making the claim. This is the difference between scientists and politicians.
If he was confident enough to present his findings to a room full of eminent scientists, I am sure more knowledgeable brains than yours or mine are prodding his theories.

---------- Post added 2012-09-19 at 03:23 AM ----------

The claims are not that extraordinary. It's just an adjustment of the theory that brings one particular componenet into the realms of practicality. It's not like suddenly we know how to build warp drives (we've just found the principle of what could be warp drives).

Finding the principle is the first step to building them though!

---------- Post added 2012-09-19 at 03:26 AM ----------

I thought the key part of the article was "This ring, potentially made of exotic matter, would cause space-time to warp around the starship".

So all they need is some unobtanium and a blowtorch to put this together.

For small scale testing they should be able to achieve it using conventional means (think atomic warping). This would give us insigh into if the theory works or not and how could we drive the energy requirements down?
it's a small step but so was the step Neil Armstrong took.

[semaphore]

50 years ago if someone spoke of controlled fusion, people would have said things very similar to what you are saying. I see your view point but it is not a scientific approach.

I doubt you see my view point at all, because you're making a load of unwarranted assumptions about what I'm "saying" when I in fact said none of those things. I didn't say anyone should give up. I didn't dismiss the principle of the Alcubierre drive. I didn't even suggest they should not investigate this possibility. Merely pointing out that there are multiple other hurdles that remain to be solved, is not to say that therefore we shouldn't do anything about it. It's saying, hold your horses, we still gotta work out all this other stuff.

You're also wrong about controlled fusion 50 years ago but that's besides the point.

As far as exotic matter go, a few years ago silicon was the god of electric appliances..one day we discover graphene and we now realise how much silicon limited the potential.

I don't think you understand what "exotic matter" means in this context. What's exotic about graphene?

And you accuse me of "without much understanding of the subject".