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  1. #1

    Lightbulb Warlock 3v3 Survivability looks awful

    Heres a link to 3v3 from a gladiator lock POV against other glads. First part of the video shows demo & the second part he mixes in Aff. This post deals primarily with 3v3 arenas & not pug bgs. i dont care what your experience is in that scenario, its meaningless.

    zzz.twitch.tv/maldiva/b/332691282 <--- replace z's with w's

    I was disappointed when i saw the new MoP talents and saw we were shifted to a cooldown based class like rogues, only more gimp because they kill us in the process. Who was asking for this???

    cooldowns are good when you have them, but when you dont its pretty lame (pretty weak state) waiting till they comeback off.

    Lock was the first to die on the majority of the matches.

    Lock gets sat on the majority of the time.

    Forcing cooldowns on the lock can be done pretty quickly.


    Its clear dark regeneration is the go to talent in the first tier. I dont see many locks rocking the other two. what sucks is GC has already said if too many people take 1 talent in a tier, then they will look at nerfing it. the said part is in this case the other two talent options are just that awful & not that dark regen is OP or anything.

    Soul-link- i've checked out various lock videos from glads, and none of them took soul-link. Alot of melee classes can easily cleave & alot of casters now have dot effects, which increases your chances of dying. i know the ability can be toggled off, but that severely weakens your survivability. 50% HP cut to the pet is a bit too high as well.

    Dark bargain- This ability is a death trap. Popping this sets up a nice kill attempt by the enemy, because while they focus you thru the spell, they know that at the end a massive dot will be dropped on your head, killing you in the process. The 50% damage taken after its over should be looked at getting removed or severely reduced. Its cooldown is long enough that this should be considered.

    Soul leech- i think this should be made a bit more attractive for PVP aff locks. So far its slanted to PVE were the repercussions of constantly casting channeled spells like MG & DS is limited. in PVP you have to be extremely careful as interrupts & lockouts can be deadly. Maybe allowing agony to heal instead (up to a max of 3 sources or w/e) would work in PVE & PVP. Drainsoul healing is pretty limited as its only used to help kill an opponent -20%.
    Last edited by jamesbond2013; 2012-09-21 at 07:24 AM.

  2. #2
    we are dead in pvp till the first patch deal with it skip pvp till they fix us
    Last edited by gez; 2012-09-21 at 01:15 PM.

  3. #3
    Deleted
    all classes die extremely quickly when they don't have their survival CDs available now.

    Not sure whats up with soul link though, I killed a felhunter in 1 starsurge crit the other day. that kinda makes it a pointless talent if the pet dies so easy.

  4. #4
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by tinkabela View Post
    all classes die extremely quickly when they don't have their survival CDs available now.
    That's hardly true for mages, is it? Ice Barrier gives so much protection and it is up pretty much all the time. We get 10 seconds of sacrifical pact and 8 seconds of unending resolve. Outside of that we are sitting ducks, no amount of teleports is going to make up for that inherent weakness.

  5. #5
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    I've played to Glad a couple of times on other characters and HWL on Warlock. I'll be running WMD in the first season of MoP because it's what my friends are playing, for the mobility of the healer and for the peels from the Mage but I expect to be killtarget #1 at all times, I think it's absolute bullshit that Hybrid casters retained their passive damage reduction and we got left as a glass cannon, and I'd gladly trade Affliction burst for the old 25% glyphed Soul Link and a pet that can't get oneshot (oh, 1 minute cooldown on Soulburn:Summon, grrrreat). I'll be playing Destro for the self-healing and for the Shatter/Chaos Bolt combo.

  6. #6
    He should've just used soul link. Listen to snutz's words.

  7. #7
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesbond2013 View Post
    Who was asking for this???
    There were many, many threads and posts in the past about Warlock PvP lacking in terms of a strong defensive cooldown. Blizzard took this to mean we no longer wanted passive mitigation and regeneration, so went to the extreme of taking virtually all of it away and gave us a whole slew of such cooldowns instead.

  8. #8
    The Unstoppable Force Bakis's Avatar
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    I wont pvp much on my lock for the first time in 7,5 years. I simply dont understand how a class with that got no burst had its defensive tools and cc cut in half.
    8s dispel put the nail in the coffin, at least we were able to do reasonably good* in Cata due to UA.

    * not talking about top100 arena teams but for the average player
    But soon after Mr Xi secured a third term, Apple released a new version of the feature in China, limiting its scope. Now Chinese users of iPhones and other Apple devices are restricted to a 10-minute window when receiving files from people who are not listed as a contact. After 10 minutes, users can only receive files from contacts.
    Apple did not explain why the update was first introduced in China, but over the years, the tech giant has been criticised for appeasing Beijing.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    There were many, many threads and posts in the past about Warlock PvP lacking in terms of a strong defensive cooldown. Blizzard took this to mean we no longer wanted passive mitigation and regeneration, so went to the extreme of taking virtually all of it away and gave us a whole slew of such cooldowns instead.
    Yup, I agree... Though it's a shame it's from one extreme to the other.

    One system worked (passive defenses) and the other system has been proven in the past that it's a HORRIBLE broken design (active defenses)...

  10. #10
    yeah I'm gonna MLD it's somewhat obvious I'll be the main target almost all the time, and if mage and druid peel won't be enough to survive till cds are up as affliction then I'll be considering going DA demo tbh, I'll do nothing but provide some extra pressure and my job would be mostly to CC / silence when needed, but this is very limited, though if they swap to someone else I could just go back to caster form and fill some fury to go meta and nuke.

    been thinking about it for a while ( sure it has it's draw backs but I'm just considering my options ).

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    There were many, many threads and posts in the past about Warlock PvP lacking in terms of a strong defensive cooldown. Blizzard took this to mean we no longer wanted passive mitigation and regeneration, so went to the extreme of taking virtually all of it away and gave us a whole slew of such cooldowns instead.
    This is the core of the issue. Even worse, in getting all of these active CDs, every single one had to be relatively weaker because they were stackable. And the worst part about it is - everyone hates this system, even Xelnath:

    I generally like the direction of the Warlock class right now. Unfortunately, I think that due to the number of survival tools they have, and the ability to overlap them, it may be too much. Exactly as described, the "beached whale" vs "unstoppable cooldown juggernaut" isn't exactly a fun place to be.

    I'd personally rather lose a defensive button and bring up the baseline. Unfortunately, that may just be too late to do now.
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post18027510

    Unfortunately, we're stuck with this until 5.1.

  12. #12
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    There were many, many threads and posts in the past about Warlock PvP lacking in terms of a strong defensive cooldown. Blizzard took this to mean we no longer wanted passive mitigation and regeneration, so went to the extreme of taking virtually all of it away and gave us a whole slew of such cooldowns instead.
    this is why we can't have nice things.

  13. #13
    Scarab Lord Nicola's Avatar
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    First of all, this is level 85, secondly, is this another 1.5k rated player that mmr exploited/wintraded to glad since honestly, the fact he's using the wrathguard in his demospec says enough.
    And I don't even want to talk about how terrible the rest of his playstyle is for a 2.9k rated player...

    EDIT: And before I forget to say this, soul link is a 20% increase in hp with sacrifice and Dark Bargain prevents all damage without reducing your own damage so it's fine.
    As for the tier one talents, they are fine. Because one talent is more appealing for PvP, it doesn't mean they are useless for everything.
    Last edited by Nicola; 2012-09-21 at 03:02 PM.

  14. #14
    The Unstoppable Force Bakis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    First of all, this is level 85, secondly, is this another 1.5k rated player that mmr exploited/wintraded to glad since honestly, the fact he's using the wrathguard in his demospec says enough.
    And I don't even want to talk about how terrible the rest of his playstyle is for a 2.9k rated player...
    Doesnt change how our talents look does it.
    But soon after Mr Xi secured a third term, Apple released a new version of the feature in China, limiting its scope. Now Chinese users of iPhones and other Apple devices are restricted to a 10-minute window when receiving files from people who are not listed as a contact. After 10 minutes, users can only receive files from contacts.
    Apple did not explain why the update was first introduced in China, but over the years, the tech giant has been criticised for appeasing Beijing.

  15. #15
    Scarab Lord Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    Doesnt change how our talents look does it.
    The talents are fine, it's just the people that don't know how to handle the tools they get.
    And like I said in the EDIT-part of my previous post, some talents are simply less appealing for PvP, the same way some of the talents will be pretty useless for PvE.

  16. #16
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    The talents are fine, it's just the people that don't know how to handle the tools they get.
    And like I said in the EDIT-part of my previous post, some talents are simply less appealing for PvP, the same way some of the talents will be pretty useless for PvE.
    On the contrary, we're at a point now where that argument is wearing rather thin. This discussion is becoming much more prevalent now people have had a decent amount of time to figure out what tools they, and their opponents have.

  17. #17
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    Hmm, I watched Maldivas stream some days ago and they won like 25 games in a row as hpala, spriest, destro.

  18. #18
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    Missing the baseline 25% SL is what will hurt locks the most. It's virtually the mian reason why we have been viable in pvp for the past 3 years atleast.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    On the contrary, we're at a point now where that argument is wearing rather thin. This discussion is becoming much more prevalent now people have had a decent amount of time to figure out what tools they, and their opponents have.
    Sometimes I think you just want to disagree with everything just to argue. The way you talk about warlocks it amazes me you even play the class. If you can't see some talents are better in PvP i don't know what to say. What warlocks need is a nether shell that works like mages ice barrier.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Randytravis View Post
    Missing the baseline 25% SL is what will hurt locks the most. It's virtually the mian reason why we have been viable in pvp for the past 3 years atleast.
    This! make SL baseline again, and all is fixed

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