How do you deal with raiders that could be good

[Jekerdud]

I've done all sorts of coaching in a 25-man guild and in the end it really boils down to the attitude of the player towards their own performance and what they consider 'fun'. If doing high DPS isn't their goal or is too demanding from the way they normally play, no amount of coaching will change them. They'll sooner quit the game or get benched than to fix the problem, especially if the guild isn't in a position to be picky about their raiders which I believe applies to the vast majority of 25-man guilds.

I've just met too many raiders that suffer from the Dunning-Kruger effect and refuse to improve their performance to care anymore. I've found that ex-guild leaders are of the highest offenders in this respect when they are no longer in a lead position and just want to raid.

Which is kind of odd, given that those former raid leaders are the ones that should understand the most how one person can drag a team down.

Oh I do know that, hence the 'friendly' advice.

But you'd be suprised how many people just don't want you to give them advice.

You giving them advice is you telling them how to play 'their' game, which is a big no-no.

So you make them understand that they are wasting the other raider's time by under performing. Yeah, it's "their game," "their 15 bucks a month," but at raid time, it's also 9/24 other people's time. Collectively, if you all aren't trying to do your best in the raid, then it's not a team effort. One person is getting carried, and it brings down the rest of the team. Especially if you have other people to talk to, make sure they know they aren't the only person getting talked to. It's strange, but sometimes people are more receptive when they aren't alone in getting talked to.

I just try and be friendly all the time, and try and share my knowledge while dishing out constructive criticism. Unfortunately people don't understand the difference between helpful criticism and trolling :/

Maybe people in leadership need to define to certain people what "helpful criticism" is, and what is trolling or not being helpful. I think, if you make it apparent that you want to see people improve, and you have other leaders within your guild watching people, and then talking to them about it if they can improve, can make a difference in how they perceive the advice. People who don't see it coming are less receptive to the idea of receiving advice. I would do this early in a tier and just do small reminders throughout it so they know they are being watched.

Before giving anyone friendly advice, I ask them in a whisper if they would mind if I do. I do it in a whisper so as not to make them feel I'm calling them out in front of the group or trying to embarrass them. I don't think I've ever had someone tell me no when I asked before hand.

Agreed. No need to make it public and make them feel worse, especially if they didn't know they needed advice and/or are not nice about getting friendly criticism.

[Deleted]

For any new raider I pick the log of our first raid and PM them the next day with anything I can spot on their rotation and CDs. After that, they are left alone and results are expected. I think that's fair enough for the guild in which we are.

[Halicia]

If your trying to help a raider in your guild and he thinks your a prick for doing so, why the hell is that person in your guild even?

What people don't seem to understand, is that when you give someone unsolicited advice, you're being a prick.

"Dude, your car sucks. You should get a such and such instead."

Why are they in your guild ? Probably not because they enjoy having you be a prick.

If someone's performance isn't acceptable, its the raidleader's responsibility to notify them of that. If they want to improve, then they will solicit the advice & coaching on their own terms from the people they respect.

[Deleted]

The guild I'm in will generally expect them to know whats going on, but if they ask we will help them to sort it out.

[Ravoks]

What I really hate is those that complain that I'm beating them or they are having a hard time playing when they never took the time to practice. Why should I give someone pointers who never takes the time to improve themselves? Why should I help someone who logs in for raid nights and that's it? I have to see effort before I guide someone.

I'm not in a leader role just a raider DPS. And usually have the other warlock asking me questions throughout the raid. Beat her by about 10k-20k and we are both in BiS, but she never practices and it's so annoying.