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  1. #21
    People should work to see the content.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Etna View Post
    Back in vanilla KZ was a better fight them DW HC. And it couldn't be facerolled at 70

    More Bosses doesnt mean quality
    wait what? isn't KZ level 60...

  3. #23
    LFR kinda reminds me of when you are 8 years old and playing basketball with your dad... you beat him and then you feel great... but then down the road you realize your dad let you win and it doesn't really seem that great anymore.

    Same thing here, LFR (along with blizz's current plan of nerfing raids so people don't feel stuck on a boss and consider quitting) becomes a lot less fun when you realize they are letting you win so you keep playing. It personally was more fun for me when the game had thought provoking stuff and creative elements in it.

  4. #24
    The Lightbringer Mandible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shroudster View Post
    see content sure but be so kind to remove loot table from it aswell then?
    Feels abit like they did with the changes to how loot is distributed.

    Anyways personally I don´t want lfr gone - I just don´t want it to be the same raid you get on normal, and same with heroic. It should be 3 different raids all together. If people want to see the harder raids - GET BETTER, or watch a video of it on youtube.
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    wait what? isn't KZ level 60...
    He was, and I don't think naxx was even available to attempt in BC.
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  6. #26
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarac View Post
    This is what I am referring to. If it is about seeing the content than there shouldn't be any loot involved in the first place as you don't have to progress in LFR.
    Lets be honest here LFR isn't about seeing content its about a business model that would have a larger part of the client base hooked on a re-playability aspect of the game specifically raiding! They are not selling "seeing the content" they are really selling "hooking casuals with the hope of having really good gear and making them want to keep subbed until they get all the upgrades they want".

    That is what LFR really dose it gives the casuals that were fed up of alts or dungeon grinding a reason to keep paying $$ and logging in each week. The same goes for the nerfs to regular and heroic content... sure it pissed off the top end guys to see heroic's nerfed but it kept giving the others that were not able to get it down a reason to stay subbed for the entire time DS and ICC was out rather than cancel there sub due to not being able to do anything else.I have a feeling that there are allot more that were road blocked pre nerfs than there were clearing it and thus the model to make a "little more" available everymonth ensured that those hitting roadblocks didnt get disscouraged to the point of canceling as a helping hand "was just around the corner".

    It makes perfect business sense to have it set up in this manner as the larger population keeps subbed as they have hope that they will keep progressing and or upgrading there toon. This is what the LFR and Nerfs sold... hope of progress to those that otherwise would mostly have unsubbed untill MOP!

    It's all about the $$

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Aviney View Post
    Yeah, a stacking debuff that you HAVE to use. You know, one that you don't have an option to turn off. Oh, wait...
    Exactly, the one that you can turn off by your own and screw the other 9 or 24 ppl in your raid and... oh, wait...

    Ah, the one that will bring unecessary discussions about turning it off or not and... oh, wait...

    Yeah, ppl sucks. Damn multiplayer games...

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-21 at 02:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Whatsthedillio View Post
    after t14 if you are heroic geared you wont have to do LFR in the next tier, because your gear will be better.


    Look at it from another perspective though, Unless you are in a handful of guilds that are pushing for world firsts, why would you not use LFR as a tool for perfecting the mechanics? Think about it, LFR is basically target dummies shaped like bosses.

    You don't HAVE to sit on the target dummies either to perfect your rotation. When my guild was working on hardmode spine we had our raiders practicing 18 second rotations on the target dummies for hours.

    I couldn't care less about the loot, but in my opinion LFR is an invaluable tool for anyone who wants to improve their play.
    Not exactly better, they're not giving a ton of ilvl to make it better, plus, we can't say anything about next tier's bonuses or the infamous powerful trinket procs that alone could be the factor of why you need to upgrade your old gear even if it is for a lower ilvl.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamingmuscle View Post
    He was, and I don't think naxx was even available to attempt in BC.
    It was available, I got ashbringer a couple of days before WotlK launched. What the poster meant was that it wasn't exactly a super easy raid at 70 (even though it was released at 60).

    On subject, I don't understand what people's obsession is with letting other people enjoy raid content through LFR. If anything it adds to the raiding community, and it's not like LFR raiders are compensated more than normal raiders. Quite the opposite in-fact. Heroic and Normal gear is vastly superior, not to mention the fact that you can get mounts and achievements there.

  9. #29
    Titan Frozenbeef's Avatar
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    Just have the same lockout for normal, lfr and heroic that we they don't have to do it and we don't have to listen to them complain :S

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Medanielle View Post
    It was available, I got ashbringer a couple of days before WotlK launched. What the poster meant was that it wasn't exactly a super easy raid at 70 (even though it was released at 60).

    On subject, I don't understand what people's obsession is with letting other people enjoy raid content through LFR. If anything it adds to the raiding community, and it's not like LFR raiders are compensated more than normal raiders. Quite the opposite in-fact. Heroic and Normal gear is vastly superior, not to mention the fact that you can get mounts and achievements there.
    Damn, I could have sworn they removed it. Maybe I'm just blurring WotLK and BC launches together.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
    My starfall brings all the mobs to the yard.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Aviney View Post
    Yeah, a stacking debuff that you HAVE to use. You know, one that you don't have an option to turn off. Oh, wait...
    You have the option but if you play competitively, you don't want to turn it off.
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  12. #32
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by gamingmuscle View Post
    He was, and I don't think naxx was even available to attempt in BC.
    Naxxramas 40men was released in June 20, 2006, with the 1.11 patch, and TBC was released in January 9, 2007.
    People had almost 7 months to access and run Naxx40 while it was current content.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudkiper View Post
    People should work to see the content.
    they can't either because their irl time is so precious that raiding for more then 3h on 1 evening a week is heresy........
    So instead to use their time wisely in the clustershithole called LFR where raiding is the same as 25 monkeys bashing their keyboard untill shinies drop.
    Something being called the same doesn't make it yield the same experience by default but people cannot grasp that it seems.

  14. #34
    its true a lot of people ARE ignorant, and they want the game to be just their own, its a big world, and your a part of it.

  15. #35
    Nobody forces you to do anything. It's a game you don't have to do anything that you don't want to...
    When you play in a raid context that yes you are forced, don't try to twist this around because you don't got any proper arguments.
    I fail to see how it isn't a proper argument. You are CHOOSING to play this game and CHOOSING to raid....the fact remains that by CHOOSING to do these things, to be competitive you must put forth the effort to get the gear to progress. This does not, however, change that fact that you are CHOOSING to participate in the first place.

    It's just like a sport, if you want to play, you need to practice....but no one is forcing you to play (in before my mom made me do it....you get the point)

  16. #36
    Legendary! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarac View Post
    When you play in a raid context that yes you are forced, don't try to twist this around because you don't got any proper arguments.
    Then join a guild that is run by intelligent people that realize that you don't NEED LFR gear to progress in HEROIC mode.

    You didn't NEED LFR gear for the last twelve tiers of raiding...because it didn't exist. Don't try and feed me some "but then people with LFR gear will pass us in progression!", because that's at least sixteen tons of malarkey. You think two rings, a weapon, and four tier tokens that some other guild MIGHT get is going to be the make or break point in who gets your server thirteenth spot on WoWprogress? Give me a break!
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  17. #37
    Brewmaster cyqu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    The only thing they really claim is a business decision. It is not profitable to create raid content for a few thousand people. The costs for that exceed the income for it.
    Wrap your heads around the fact that you are dealing with a company who has to rightfully make business decisions catered towards profit.
    Profit also includes jobs. People make the content. Those people have no job, if raiding was only build around a few tens of thousands.

    The comparison they make is still valid, and the argument bosses were harder to kill than today is wrong for various reasons.
    Bosses today are still as hard to kill as they were before.
    Turn the damn debuff off, switch heroic mode on, and exchange the gear you wear from Heroic/Debuff kills with Normal mode gear... And then do Heroic unbuffed....
    After that, come back and talk again..

    The reason why older expansion bosses can be killed easier now, compared to the past, lies not in the triviality. It lies in the exponential stat system the game is build on.
    It was harder at level 70 to kill a level 60 boss, than it is now for a level 85 to kill a level 80 boss. The stats simply do that.
    Where you did 400 dps in vanilla, and 900 dps in TBC, you do 40k in Cata now. Just to throw out some numbers.
    Well I guess you haven't been informed, but blizzards profits are dropping and people are losing there jobs, also everyone can see the content now. So therefor you might be wrong in your assessment.

    When people have nothing to strive for and can see all the raiding content first week of a patch. What's the point?

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Etna View Post
    Back in vanilla KZ was a better fight them DW HC. And it couldn't be facerolled at 70

    More Bosses doesnt mean quality
    It also doesn't mean less quality. Black Temple had 9 bosses and the place was a ton of fun. Trial of the Crusader had 5 and the place was garbage. There's very little correlation between raid size and encounter quality. All the encounters "function" fine, it's just a matter of whether or not the developers envision something that the players will end up enjoying. But there are big raids that are great, and big raids that suck. And there are small raids that are great and small raids that suck.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-21 at 11:32 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown View Post
    Then join a guild that is run by intelligent people that realize that you don't NEED LFR gear to progress in HEROIC mode.
    Need? No, of course not. But it certainly can't hurt and must provide at least some help to have a higher iLevel, especially in the hands of a player that has a pretty good idea how to play his or her character well.
    Humans are the only species on the planet smart enough to be this stupid.

  19. #39
    Deleted
    I already read that 1 or 2 months ago somewhere. This isn't abou Blizzard legitimizing LFR it's Blizzard justifying continuing making proper raids by LFR. LFR means more people see this content meaning that crating this content is more justified by a business point of view.

  20. #40
    Banned Gandrake's Avatar
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    you know what i find amusing

    that these threads get posted when many people have expressed that they wish lfr was not in the game or did not reward players with equipment, but don't really care anyway, because they know that Blizzard isn't going to listen to them and it doesn't really have an impact on their gameplay.

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