Arcane Mage PvE Guide

[Deleted]

Also wondering, with what does one line up Alter Time? At the start of encounter it goes all together with PoM, AP and glyphed Mana Gem + 2 AM stacks. Later tho, Mana Gem falls out of the cooldown line, and it's a huge gainer for non-stop AB casts. Do we wait for Alter Time to use second mana gem?

[Shangalar]

Ok I got it, idiotic Simcraft wanted me to reach the second Haste breakpoint (6414) all of this time. Also, it's worth mentioning that I don't have any set bonuses yet.

Test 1: RoP, Full Mastery, Nether Tempest, Glyph of AP, Patchwerk. Starting values: SP 20746, Haste 3430, Mastery 7221

DPS 97237.5
Int 4.28
SP 3.47
Hit 2.72
Crit 1.50
Haste 2.09
Mastery 1.90

Test 2: Rune of Power, Int/Mastery, Nether Tempest, Glyph of AP, Patchwerk. Starting values: SP 21334, Mastery 6101, Haste 3430

DPS 97374.6
Int 4.21
SP 3.53
Hit 2.70
Crit 1.47
Haste 2.17
Mastery 2.05

Test 3: Rune of Power, Int/Haste, Nether Tempest, Glyph of AP, Patchwerk. Starting values: SP 21334, Mastery 3918, Haste 5436

DPS 97384
Int 4.22
SP 3.46
Hit 2.66
Crit 1.53
Haste 2.40
Mastery 2.10

Test 4: Rune of Power, Full Haste, Nether Tempest, Glyph of AP, Patchwerk. Starting values: SP 20746, Mastery 3918, Haste 6556 (after second breakpoint)

DPS 97626
Int 4.26
SP 3.50
Hit 2.71
Crit 1.50
Haste 1.93
Mastery 2.07

________

I've also tested DPS on a target dummy in the following ways (with starting conditions: Brilliance, Mage Armor, Flask of the Warm Sun)
Test 1 - Full Mastery with 6-charge camping = 72k stable
Test 2 - Full Mastery without charge camping = 72k stable
Test 3 - Full Haste with 6-charge camping = 68k stable
Test 4 - Full Haste without charge camping = 68k stable

Fun, this Arcane...

---------- Post added 2012-12-03 at 05:41 PM ----------

Also wondering, with what does one line up Alter Time? At the start of encounter it goes all together with PoM, AP and glyphed Mana Gem + 2 AM stacks. Later tho, Mana Gem falls out of the cooldown line, and it's a huge gainer for non-stop AB casts. Do we wait for Alter Time to use second mana gem?

Yup, you wait with the second mana gem for the second Alter Time. Make a macro with the following:

/cast Mana Gem (or Brilliant Mana Gem if you're using the Major Glyph)
/cast Arcane Power
/cast any use trinkets (I have Flashfrozen Resin Globule)
/cast any profession abilities (I have Herbalism so Lifeblood)
/cast Alter Time
/cast Arcane Missiles

One hit on that button and you're ready to rumble.

[mrgreenthump]

Ok I got it, idiotic Simcraft wanted me to reach the second Haste breakpoint (6414) all of this time. Also, it's worth mentioning that I don't have any set bonuses yet.

I wanna ask, what version of simcraft are you using?

[Shangalar]

Downloaded the last one before I started running these sims. But every single time I ran sims, it always wanted to inflate my Haste beyond what I personally thought was reasonable. And also, I didn't have the gear to reforge or gem into the second breakpoint earlier.

However, I might be using it completely wrong, who knows

[mrgreenthump]

Downloaded the last one before I started running these sims. But every single time I ran sims, it always wanted to inflate my Haste beyond what I personally thought was reasonable. And also, I didn't have the gear to reforge or gem into the second breakpoint earlier.

However, I might be using it completely wrong, who knows

Ye but if that was the 510-2 sim, that the you can dl from simulationcraft.org it doesnt count the arcane changes

[Shangalar]

Ye but if that was the 510-2 sim, that the you can dl from simulationcraft.org it doesnt count the arcane changes

Doesn't it? It's currently simming Arcane as the top dps spec in T14 Heroic gear and that wouldn't be the case if it didn't count the arcane changes. Also, without those changes it simmed me more than 10k dps lower than it's simming me right now. So I'm pretty sure it does.

Edit:

Additionally, I've updated the guide with the optimal rune of power dps cycle, these latest simcraft results and also some stats, gems and other stuff. Will update the basic part of the guide soon to reflect the 5.1 changes in mana costs and damage increases per charge.

[mrgreenthump]

Doesn't it? It's currently simming Arcane as the top dps spec in T14 Heroic gear and that wouldn't be the case if it didn't count the arcane changes. Also, without those changes it simmed me more than 10k dps lower than it's simming me right now. So I'm pretty sure it does.

Edit:

Additionally, I've updated the guide with the optimal rune of power dps cycle, these latest simcraft results and also some stats, gems and other stuff. Will update the basic part of the guide soon to reflect the 5.1 changes in mana costs and damage increases per charge.

its a weird thing they do that nobody knows why.. They put the sims they do on the site with a new sim and then let you download the previous sim from the site. In this case they are showing 510-3 sims on the site, but will only let you download 510-2 sim from the site. And its making me kinda annoyed atm, cause 510-3 sim is the 1 I could find at least some indication of what is really the case of stats atm..

[Shangalar]

To be honest I don't think we'll be able to precisely sim Arcane no matter how simcraft is programmed and I'd just love to permaban the program out of our discussions here. But people are asking for it and I delivered, as wonky as the results are again and again and again.

[mrgreenthump]

To be honest I don't think we'll be able to precisely sim Arcane no matter how simcraft is programmed and I'd just love to permaban the program out of our discussions here. But people are asking for it and I delivered, as wonky as the results are again and again and again.

Mm, but it still gives direction to go for, and atm, I just have nothing to go with, I dont have the gear myself to test out wonky stuff cause in 10 man nothing will drop atm. I dont have the time to do 100 parses on a dummy with different gear sets.. I have a feeling maxing mastery is the way to go atm, with maxing int after that and maxing haste after that, but hell I just have no idea, cause I do not have the time to test every possible combination atm..

And I think most mages atm are in the same situation, they just dont know what to do, like I have 10-20 or so mage friends that I discuss gear and rotation and they ask me for advise sometimes, And I just hate to say to em, that I really dont have a definite answer.

[adnre]

but why glyph of AP? its cd is 1:30 already and without the glyph you could line it up with jade spirit/trinkets more often
besides a pot nothing lasts 30 seconds.. okay well your use trinket does

[mrgreenthump]

but why glyph of AP? its cd is 1:30 already and without the glyph you could line it up with jade spirit/trinkets more often
besides a pot nothing lasts 30 seconds.. okay well your use trinket does

Cause it will have a longer uptime with Heroism, And with glyphed it will still line up with your cd's mainly Alter Time, Engineering tinker and mana gem

[Deleted]

Cause it will have a longer uptime with Heroism, And with glyphed it will still line up with your cd's mainly Alter Time, Engineering tinker and mana gem

Glyph of AP should be taken on a per-fight basis; depending on the duration of the fight. You use it to gain maximum uptime depending on fight length. If you're progressing this is important: on a fight which has an enrage timer which is a multiple of 3 (3,6,9 etc.) you DON'T want to use the glyph. On fights with a multiple of 2 which AREN'T a multiple of 3 (2,4,8,10 etc.) you DO, as you'll obtain a higher uptime of Arcane power.

It's on a 1.5 minute CD anyway; it should be lining up with your Alter Time anyway, mana gem (at least, glyphed version) is 2 or 2.5 minute CD so that never really syncs and Engineering tinkers should always be used on CD regardless of situation (unless there is NOTHING to dps) else you're losing DPS compared to other raiding professions.

Back OT:

Should 6-stack camping only be done whilst AP is up? Or is it done the full time?

[Shangalar]

From my tests, while AP is up you can camp down to 80-85% mana but without AP there's not much point to go under 90% for purposes of camping.

[audacitymage]

I played arcane last night. Its pretty fun right now... noone knows what is optimal. I can't link the logs but just go look up Aftermath on Mal'Ganis US and you can see them.

I was playing the more standard style of using AB to reset stacks at like 80% mana. I've been playing around a lot trying to figure out if its better to stack haste or mastery and its a really close call, as well as looking into the 6stack style of play using scorch. For my armory look for Audacity on US-Mal-Ganis

Here were my results:
Reforge/gem full mastery
116.9k Normal playstyle, reset stacks with AB
116.9k 6 stacks fulltime, scorch at 85% mana
117.3k 6 stacks fulltime, scorch at 90% mana

Reforge/gem full haste
116.8k Normal playstyle, reset stacks with AB
117.7k 6 stacks fulltime, scorch at 85% mana
117.9k 6 stacks fulltime, scorch at 90% mana

Now this is for patchwerk so there are some things to consider:
(1) They're all so damn close it probably doesn't really matter.
(2) Haste is slightly better for straight-up patchwerk.
(3) Mastery is better for any cleave or multidot fights for arcane. On fights like Ambershaper heroic that I linked, a huge % of my dmg is just from nether tempest and mastery greatly benefits that. The thing is though... most of the cleave fights you'd be better off playing frost anyways.
(4) Haste is best for frost so you can use the same gearset and gemming for both frost and arcane
(5) The stat-weights are always such that its worth gemming mastery or haste over int

I think the best way will just be gem and reforge full haste. Play arcane for single target fights, and play frost for any cleave/aoe fights that don't favor NT spam.

[adnre]

it really feels so freestyle - the difference between clearing 6 stacks with barrage when getting no procs compared to scorching for manareg is so small

the nonexistant-900 dps difference seems to be correct as audacity posted above

but i still somewhat dislike RoP its sometimes hard enough to keep stacks up after moving and then you have to immediately set up your rune or your manareg and output is a bit screwed... arcane is a real movement retard

[DreamSpyre]

I'll start with my armory, http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Saji/advanced

I decided to try messing around with an obscenely high amount of haste (Currently 10071 Rating) and Frost Armor. On tuesday after the patch, I went to the dummies with a traditional Arcane strategy, Full mastery, get to 6 stacks, stay there as long as humanly possible, and then barrage to clear while using Missile proc's intelligently, averaged about 75k self buffed. Went into raid and did Zor'lok on Normal 25 as Arcane and pulled just shy of 100k. I had to switch back to Fire for progression then, but it showed promise.

I just went with basically the same idea, except with the full haste setup that you see in the armory now. Self buffed on the dummy I'm in the neighborhood of 90-95k consistently. The regen is so insane there is absolutely no reason to Barrage ever, if for some reason I do get unlucky with missile procs, I weave a scorch in and in that timeframe, I've regen'ed enough to go back to Blasting. On tests where I did Barrage, the dps values barely if at all skewed in either direction. I'd say on single target type fights just stay at 6 stacks and weave in scorches if necessary, on any sort of fight where you can abuse Barrage cleave just go ahead and reset.

Here's the kicker, I ran Simcraft ( Which I don't normally trust implicitly ) and it simmed at just over 120k once I changed the action list to more suit how I was playing Arcane, and even then I'm fairly certain I can't get simcraft to get really close to an optimal Arcane playstyle. I am faaar from BiS gear, and even with heavy movement, Arcane just feels like it's capable of being up there now. I will definitely be playing this on all of our progression this week.

[Deleted]

I'll start with my armory, http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Saji/advanced

I decided to try messing around with an obscenely high amount of haste (Currently 10071 Rating) and Frost Armor. On tuesday after the patch, I went to the dummies with a traditional Arcane strategy, Full mastery, get to 6 stacks, stay there as long as humanly possible, and then barrage to clear while using Missile proc's intelligently, averaged about 75k self buffed. Went into raid and did Zor'lok on Normal 25 as Arcane and pulled just shy of 100k. I had to switch back to Fire for progression then, but it showed promise.

I just went with basically the same idea, except with the full haste setup that you see in the armory now. Self buffed on the dummy I'm in the neighborhood of 90-95k consistently. The regen is so insane there is absolutely no reason to Barrage ever, if for some reason I do get unlucky with missile procs, I weave a scorch in and in that timeframe, I've regen'ed enough to go back to Blasting. On tests where I did Barrage, the dps values barely if at all skewed in either direction. I'd say on single target type fights just stay at 6 stacks and weave in scorches if necessary, on any sort of fight where you can abuse Barrage cleave just go ahead and reset.

Here's the kicker, I ran Simcraft ( Which I don't normally trust implicitly ) and it simmed at just over 120k once I changed the action list to more suit how I was playing Arcane, and even then I'm fairly certain I can't get simcraft to get really close to an optimal Arcane playstyle. I am faaar from BiS gear, and even with heavy movement, Arcane just feels like it's capable of being up there now. I will definitely be playing this on all of our progression this week.

Out of interest, running your full haste setup, what mana % were you sticking at, or aiming to regen to before blasting again? At the moment I'm using full mastery build (1.85s Blasts) and at 6 stacks I can still burn mana when I want to; but I'm trying to stick around the 90% range. Managing 70K self buffed with 485 gear, but I'm still quite intrigued by the all-out-haste setup (although Frost Armor?) and how it differs management-wise.

[audacitymage]

Pretty fun doing ToES as arcane. I played the standard rotation with barrage on fights that it would cleave, and used the mana neutral rotation maintaining 6 stacks and scorch on single target. I'm thinking the optimal way to play is going to be the maintain 6stack way, using scorch when below 80-85%ish mana (for single target).

I think it will be optimal to stack haste, past when AB hits the gcd under lust, and until spamming 6stack AB is mana neutral. Basically until you can just spam AB at 6 stacks forever just using NT and AM as they proc. Not really sure what this haste rating will be, need to look into the mana regen formula and do some math because it will be the mana regen of 6 stack AB at the GCD, but a bit less because using NT and AM will be a net mana gain per global and they're prioritized over AB.

As for frost armor or mage armor, they both give identical benefit more or less. 3000 mastery vs 7% haste rating, which is 7*425, or 2975 haste rating. Haste is slightly stronger with my gear (statweight of 2.6 vs 2.54 for mastery) but when doing sims if I used frost armor instead my dps lowered, I think probably because of too much haste, and the need for a bit of balance on gear between haste/mastery.

[Deleted]

Hello, What should I choose for Kings 10 man hc. I tried IW but my dps was very poor, something around 55k. Should I change to RoP?

[Shangalar]

RoP isn't really usable on Kings HC since you have to move a lot. I tried Invocation there a few times and it was okay, but you should have better results with Incanter's Ward. You can even try to take damage on purpose to proc it if at some point you have a break from damage. I'd assume the issue is with your rotation, 55k might imply you either have weak gear or you are having issues with executing your damage because of the encounter mechanics.