It depends on your tank gear;
It was pretty hard when I played beta with malevolent tanks
I couldnt be happier that they are this easy. Theres nothing fun imo about CCing every pull and spending an hour+ in a heroic ( start of cata), the 80th time you have done it.
If you want a challenge do raids, or even challenge modes. Not the instances we are going to run 1230512930123 times this expansion.
the heroics are very easy.
I'm a casual, but even i think it's a bit ridiculous. fresh 90's in greens with very little effort. It honestly feels like the wrath heroics in 3.1-3.2.
But i think it's cause they didn't include level 90 reg dungeons. They need to be easy because they're you're only option after dinging 90.
And when you have decent gear they are even easier to farm and are super boring...
At least if they are hard at the start you get some feeling of accomplishment and you can notice gear upgrades and when fully geared they then become faceroll. Best 5man times I've had were in TBC heroics where you had to actually play well to complete SH or Arc and if someone broke CC they'd get bitch slapped to the floor.
Sure runs took a little longer, but players used more skills (hunters kiting on to traps etc) you could tell who the real tanks were as they ran around picking up and taunting loose mobs. It was just a lot more exciting and fun. Now you do one run to learn some simple mechanics then steam roll through it. Back in the day you sometimes had a few wipes as people learned mechanics but after that they never forgot it and they could then teach people. Now I doubt most people even know what half the boss mechanics are because they only tickle and aren't punishing enough.
Happy that I decided that I'm not going to bother with MOP if it's still overall too easy.
I remember the start of cata I was one of the 2 people in my guild that were level 85 and pugging heroics was terrible. I did not get an accomplished feeling after beating grim batol in a random, it was more of a "screw this place"
If you had a guild group sure, in a pug on release with the 5% LotD buff with everyone at minimum gear level, sorry no they where not.
MoP heroics are meant to be at the same level of difficulty as the Hour of Twilight heroics.
They introduced challenge mode if you want to be a 5 man special snowflake!
I am really looking forward to doing these with my regular group (even though I don't think in any way we will be getting realms quickest times), but I like the fact I will not have to face PuG hell trying to do Erudax and wiping for close to an hour.
Maybe you should try a movie instead of a game, considering how you seem to be only interested in watching thing and not actually playing...
Hello :
Bad players failing in PuG isn't an indication that the instances were actually "hard".
They were decently challenging, but not "hard". They only looked hard because of the nefarious consequences of WotLK about expectations ("you should be able to one-shoot everything in a random PuG" replacing the "PuG is just for ultra-easy or obsolete content") and skill level (two years and a half doing nothing but mindless AoE rush made the average skill level drop through the floor).
Breaking news : you're actually playing your character while taking part in these "loot distributors"... well i know i am :S
All BS a side, i know what you mean and i also semi agree. I feel that the heroics are a bit too easy ATM. There should be at least the need to CC one mob, or if you pull two packs, you're gonna have a bad time. But i still stand by my post, I like that it's a bit easier so casually can be guaranteed a dungeon completing, gear to meet first tier raiding req and getting their $$ worth - but also it gives people who just don't give a shiz about dungeons a nice quick way to get loots for when raids come out
I don't think they're going to change heroics... but they might give challenges modes a buff, but i doubt it.
They are. But if they are easy enough then heroic cant be as hard as people that are in for challenge want it to be. It also effectively prevents the skill level progress for most players meaning heroic raiding guilds wont be able to recruit more. Which leads to raiding dying out. This is what is happening right now.
You are also confusing casuals with bads. I dont call people who dont have enough spare time to dedicate it to hardcore raiding bads. That is what a being a casual means. You do what your time allows you to, prioritizing the things you like the most. But that doesnt mean turning into a crybaby everytime you come to the new place and cant kill a boss. A desire to improve is what every normal player should have and what bads lack. If it takes you too long to complete a raid while it's current and if you actually work for it then it's probably too hard and needs a nerf.
the only challenge is winning gear.
i haven`t had a single problem since I hit 90 in any of these heroics with any group i`ve been with. :/
that`s probably because the majority of people aren`t level 90 yet, and chances are if you`re level 90 within the first 2-3 days you`re "probably" pretty good at the game.
I remember a time where dungeon where run for fun, not necessarly for the gear, valor point or achievement entry. I remember jumping in a UBRS group just for the honor of being punt by the beast.
I remember joining a shadow labs run, for the shear challenge of it, i had 2 hours free time ahead of me and i love team work in dungeon.
The poster i quote exemplify the new type of gamer to which i really have a hard time to identify. I'm 35 but sudddenly, i feel like an old rag, remembering the good ol' time. I am completely overwhelmed by today gaming design, it simply isn't fun for me to farm valor point. That is just me i guess.
Atm inn lfg, no cc needed inn the once I have done. pull the whole pack and aoe down wotlk style.
I will also admit to cheesing my way into hc's whit pvp crafted stuff inn bags and still sporting the 4set t13h(421 equip on the first one I did) most offset items are mop greens and blues. Yep for the players at 90 now doing lfg it's easy but those are probably not exactly the worst players either, so it might skew the impression a bit. But if you have somewhat a clue and got a decent tank + healer then they are rely easy inn my opinion...
While I think that dungeons in the beginning should be reasonably forgiving, I also think that 5-mans could be designed to be an alternative path of progression. There is nothing interesting in them if they are solely designed to be gear grinds for the raids. Why would you even want content to be designed like that?
Ideally I would have a handful of heroics at the level of the MoP ones to provide gear in the beginning but also some that would function as a follow-up after these. Challenge modes are a good step in the right direction but to me personally come across as very gimmicky due to being designed around speed. Only problems with 5-mans as actually progression paths would be that they would be notably affected by class differences and synergy, and they couldn't reward better gear or they would become just another things to do before raids. Latter of the two is already quite well addressed by the challenge modes and I think going with the PvP season model might be the way to go with them.
Last edited by Keoren; 2012-09-28 at 08:18 AM.