MoP 5man heroic.

[Fitzgerald77]

The heroics are supposed to be easier then the heroics were in Cata, the real challenge is supposed to come from the challenge mode.

I don't know why they wanted to make them easier than they were in Cata... When I started doing heroic dungeons in Cata I thought they were pretty well balanced, It reminded me of the BC heroics! They are called HEROICS for a reason goddammit! They should be difficult!

[Farabee]

Only boss that's remotely challenging I've seen so far is the 3rd boss of Niuzao Temple. Every other boss has just been faceroll. Last boss of Setting Sun, I honestly didn't even know what was going on as a tank...I just grabbed stuff.

I guess challenge mode is going to be the tough version now, these are honestly easier than Wrath.

I also don't understand why the ilvl req is so damn high either, basically forcing you to buy some crafted stuff. Mogushan Palace is the only normal that drops 450 gear and it's only got 3 bosses with limited loot tables.

[Deleted]

Have people already reached the point of doing Heroics? I am not even level 86 yet... I know the Heroics are designed to be easier than Cata's were at launch, but not super easy.

my guild already got the glory achiv..:P

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Shillz/simple

here a link to a guildie who got it

[LurkerOnly]

Corporate America loves people like you. "Here, take my money! And no I'm not going to complain when you give me zero new content for 9 months even though I pay you a monthly fee! I know you're hard at work to provide an awesome game, you're definitely not trying to milk your customer base for as much as you can while providing as little content as possible!"

---------- Post added 2012-09-26 at 06:55 PM ----------



This post makes me sad. "pretty much every boss could wipe your group easily", the fact that that is now an exception rather than the norm really speaks to the ultra-simplified, casualized direction Blizzard has taken the game.

The problem with the super easy, blazing fast heroics is that players complete them almost instantly with no challenge and a rapidly declining incentive to run them again. Players get bored much quicker of the easier content, and as evidenced the last 2 years, millions quit.

Yes some people will quit because content is too hard and they would rather not play than have to work through the challenge, but to me that is more a problem with that individual gamer than the game itself.

Another example of young people who think that money is a "magic button" that will cause businesses to A) be able and B) willing to do whatever you want, anytime, no matter what, because you ever gave them money.

Please enter the real world.

[Myci]

Maybe you should try a movie instead of a game, considering how you seem to be only interested in watching thing and not actually playing...

Good job saying im the only one who thinks this, when quoting two people.

And not reading my post.

Im sorry you cant enjoy these heroics simply because they dont take 2 hours, but for others theres other positive things that you can like about them being as they are.
Im going to enjoy pulling as many mobs as i can, trying to run a heroic with 4 tanks, or seeing how fast i can complete it. Theres plenty of quirky ways to make it fun.
Theres nothing fun about wiping 10 times because you get stuck with 1 or 2 bad pugs who cant get it right. Especially the 100th time

[Crashdummy]

I remember a time where dungeon where run for fun, not necessarly for the gear, valor point or achievement entry. I remember jumping in a UBRS group just for the honor of being punt by the beast.

I remember joining a shadow labs run, for the shear challenge of it, i had 2 hours free time ahead of me and i love team work in dungeon.


The poster i quote exemplify the new type of gamer to which i really have a hard time to identify. I'm 35 but sudddenly, i feel like an old rag, remembering the good ol' time. I am completely overwhelmed by today gaming design, it simply isn't fun for me to farm valor point. That is just me i guess.

I remember the time where dungeons were made for fun, that time was WotLK. I could run 10 heroics a day (without LFG, without needing badges, without needing gear) just because they WERE FUN.

Then Cata came, and everything besides Stonecore seemed like a chore to me. 1 hour + long dungeons where you had to kill the same pack of trash over and over just to get to a boss that had one shot mechanics so as a healer you couldnt help your party survive besides the normal damage. But of course, we healed like shit at the start of cata, throwing 6k heals to a 100k tank so its not like we could do much in non one shot mechanics.

TBC heroics were run a lot less than Wrath ones, take off your rose tinted glasses.

Also, i am 31 and i have enough challenges in my life to seek them in a video game. My advice to you: seek challenges in your life and you wont have the need to have them in every feature of every single computer game.

[ShadowCrafter]

Wow is meant to be played casually now, don't forget wow could be challenging at the start because everquest was it's closest competition and that was very grindy. With games like SWTOR that have come out recently blizzard need to make sure there game is even easier now, because easy means more sales apparently. Also wow makes bads feel like they pro gamers now, so thats a good thing for the masses.

[Deleted]

If you had a paladin healer they were easier but Cata heroics were brutal. I liked them but when I tried to pug on my hunter alt it was painful. I'd find a good group and say let's requeue, requeue!

Pretty much agree with this guy, they were so brutal I shelved my Holy/Ret Pally (went Prot instead of Ret, because Ret was terrible til, what, 4.1?) & leveled my hunter to cap. they were so difficult it was a shock after the Wrath AoE -fest. & pugging em? yeah, no.....

[Akka]

Good job saying im the only one who thinks this, when quoting two people.

And not reading my post.

Speaking of reading : reading comprehension FTW ? I quoted two people because the answer was for both of them.

Im sorry you cant enjoy these heroics simply because they dont take 2 hours, but for others theres other positive things that you can like about them being as they are.

Theres nothing fun about wiping 10 times because you get stuck with 1 or 2 bad pugs who cant get it right. Especially the 100th time

There's nothing fun about auto-winning and lack of gameplay. If you can't bear the idea of wiping because of bads, then do your group with your friends, or teach the bads to play, or blame Blizzard who put a tool for random grouping instead of pushing people to take matters into their own hands.

I remember the time where dungeons were made for fun, that time was WotLK. I could run 10 heroics a day (without LFG, without needing badges, without needing gear) just because they WERE FUN.

Actually, LK instances were a DREADFUL BORE, no gameplay at all, just run forward and spam AoE. I guess that they could be fun for simpleton who enjoy mashing one single button (or probably simply by people who only wanted loot and rewards and are not interested at all in gameplay), but they were total failure when it comes to actual non-mindless entertainment.

TBC heroics were run a lot less than Wrath ones, take off your rose tinted glasses.

/facepalm²

LK's instances were 15-20 mn of rush, if you had one hour to play you could chain several of them, and the skill bar was so low even a trained monkey could finish them. It's pretty obvious that they would be run more often than longer, more involving instance with higher requirements. Who ever said the contrary ?
Being run more != being more fun
MC was run much more often than AQ40, who is going to argue that MC was the better instance of the two ?

Also, i am 31 and i have enough challenges in my life to seek them in a video game. My advice to you: seek challenges in your life and you wont have the need to have them in every feature of every single computer game.

Oh my, is it even possible to use more pathetic arguments than "I'm so full of win at life that I require mindless activity when I'm outside my work" ?
If you don't want to PLAY when in a GAME, maybe a game is not the "activity" you should consider then. Go drool watching TV or whatever.

[Hyve]

Is the new 5man heroics a challenge, and if so can you line it with something i know from past exp.

Heroics are designed to be a minor challenge for you to learn how to play, but nothing brutal. They're certainly not comparable to Cataclysm Launch Heroics. Several bosses require you to use your cooldowns to survive, and from a healers point of view a couple of fights do take a large chunk of my mana, but they're not intensive or unbearable.

They're intended to be a small barrier to Raiding, not a critical entry point for PvE.

[Crashdummy]

Wow is meant to be played casually now, don't forget wow could be challenging at the start because everquest was it's closest competition and that was very grindy. With games like SWTOR that have come out recently blizzard need to make sure there game is even easier now, because easy means more sales apparently. Also wow makes bads feel like they pro gamers now, so thats a good thing for the masses.

WoW has always meant to be played casually except at the start of Cata when they tried to revert the direction that made them be the best MMO.

Vanilla was a casual version of UO and EQ.
TBC was a casual version of vanilla
Wrath was a casual version of TBC

---------- Post added 2012-09-28 at 08:52 AM ----------

Actually, LK instances were a DREADFUL BORE, no gameplay at all, just run forward and spam AoE. I guess that they could be fun for simpleton who enjoy mashing one single button (or probably simply by people who only wanted loot and rewards and are not interested at all in gameplay), but they were total failure when it comes to actual non-mindless entertainment.

Different people, different opinions. I have never had so much fun in a game than in Wrath and its heroics. And of course to old Werath heroic were AOE spam from the start, which is a blatant lie... You couldnt just go there and aoe everything from day 1, people have severe memory problems around here.

/facepalm²

LK's instances were 15-20 mn of rush, if you had one hour to play you could chain several of them, and the skill bar was so low even a trained monkey could finish them. It's pretty obvious that they would be run more often than longer, more involving instance with higher requirements. Who ever said the contrary ?
Being run more != being more fun
MC was run much more often than AQ40, who is going to argue that MC was the better instance of the two ?

If they werent fun, they would not be run so much, after you got the gear. in a time span of an expansion one the lenght component becomes irrelevant and the fun component is the one that dictates how many times they are run. You dont keep running something boring, like we did with Cata. Cata heroicas were boring, so we stopped running them as soon as we didnt need more gear. That didnt happened with Wrath.

Oh my, is it even possible to use more pathetic arguments than "I'm so full of win at life that I require mindless activity when I'm outside my work" ?
If you don't want to PLAY when in a GAME, maybe a game is not the "activity" you should consider then. Go drool watching TV or whatever.

You should control your attitude, dont come here with childish rants.
I want to play a game, not do work. Playing a game =/= being challenged. A game is meant to ENTERTAIN you, not challenge you.

I want to PLAY, nor WORK.

[Gilian]

1) Anyone doing heroics in less then 24 hours from launch is not your normal player. Some of us haven't even had the luxury of being able to log on yet due to Work/School/ect

2) Blizzard learned their lesson from cata launch, this should not not be a surprise for anyone there is close to 15 damn pages on MMO-Champ discussing this ad nauseum.

3) Its disheartening to hear so much complaining on the forums after close to a year of no new content. People are already looking to tear down what Blizzard spent months to build, can't you just give em a break and just be happy?

I completely understand why they made them easier. That doesn't mean it doesn't suck for many players. This is exactly how LFR/normal raids/heroic raids work. If you are a good player or you have more time to play you get to do the same content again but on a different difficulty and a lot of people don't like that. If you are someone who doesn't play a lot or you are not that good then this game is perfect for you.

I don't understand why everyone needs to be happy? I never liked doing content in a videogame and then do it again but on another difficulty. I don't know if you can skip heroics and go straight into challenge mode? I guess you miss out on a lot of gear then that you actually need to raid. So once again you don't have a real choice.
Every experienced, good and very active players steamroll through those heroics apparently. I don't see how that's good for them. I completely understand why they are not all happy.

---------- Post added 2012-09-28 at 12:06 PM ----------

Different people, different opinions. I have never had so much fun in a game than in Wrath and its heroics. And of course to old Werath heroic were AOE spam from the start, which is a blatant lie... You couldnt just go there and aoe everything from day 1, people have severe memory problems around here.



If they werent fun, they would not be run so much, after you got the gear. in a time span of an expansion one the lenght component becomes irrelevant and the fun component is the one that dictates how many times they are run. You dont keep running something boring, like we did with Cata. Cata heroicas were boring, so we stopped running them as soon as we didnt need more gear. That didnt happened with Wrath.


I want to PLAY, nor WORK.

Dear god. I was there from the start, from day one. We AoEed at least 80% of those dungeons. You should compare TBC with WotLK and then you would see why people called WotLK AoE fest. It was completely ridiculous.

Yes I was clearly doing Violet Hold for the 50th time because it was so much fun. I was three shotting mobs as elemental shaman in the end, that was awesome! That you actually say that... The only reason they were done so much was because of the insane gear, gear resets and the gold you could make by doing them. When a new tier came out most players weren't going to wait for their new gear. No, they went through 10 min easy and boring dungeons because the rewards were so good.

I also want to play and not work. I don't want to be doing mindless heroics, it is one big ass grind for me.

I understand why they are this easy. But the ignorance of some people here who don't understand the side of other players... But I guess as long as it is good for you then everyone else should shut up.

---------- Post added 2012-09-28 at 12:12 PM ----------

They are faceroll at the moment. There are very few punishing mechanics, and my friends and I started queuing for them after cheesing the ILVL requirement with PvP gear (we were in quest greens/blues) and were already chain-pulling multiple packs. Even had a couple occasions of our healer getting locked out of the boss room and 4 manning the boss without a healer.

Hahaha, wtf. Good thing I didn't buy this shit again. This is not for me.

---------- Post added 2012-09-28 at 12:12 PM ----------

my guild already got the glory achiv..:P

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Shillz/simple

here a link to a guildie who got it

That's why they are called achievements. :S

---------- Post added 2012-09-28 at 12:20 PM ----------

After the first "bads" i stopped reading. Sorry, but if you need to say something of any value, rethink the words you use. But seeing as i did read half the first sentence here is my input;

LFR and normal are meant to be easy... hence why there is heroic, why can't you see this? I'm not a casual, been playing since vanilla, probably seen more content than you and from what i'm guessing by the "bads" terminology you've only killed stuff pre nerf and/or when the content has been out for ages. Using words like "bads" to describe a group of people that only play casually and/or don't want commit to a raiding guild needs to stop...

LFR is not made for casual players it's made for bad players. Casual players don't want to steamroll through content except if you are casual and bad.
These heroics are also made for bad players because otherwise LFD doesn't work. You know there is the possibility to make hard, short dungeons?

Why can't you see that doing heroic after LFR and after normal is much more boring than doing the raid for the first time? Why can't you see that LFR and normal are extremely boring for experienced/good players yet they are forced to do them?
Why are you acting like there are no bad players?

[Crashdummy]

Dear god. I was there from the start, from day one. We AoEed at least 80% of those dungeons. You should compare TBC with WotLK and then you would see why people called WotLK AoE fest. It was completely ridiculous.

Yes I was clearly doing Violet Hold for the 50th time because it was so much fun. I was three shotting mobs as elemental shaman in the end, that was awesome! That you actually say that... The only reason they were done so much was because of the insane gear, gear resets and the gold you could make by doing them. When a new tier came out most players weren't going to wait for their new gear. No, they went through 10 min easy and boring dungeons because the rewards were so good.

I also want to play and not work. I don't want to be doing mindless heroics, it is one big ass grind for me.

I understand why they are this easy. But the ignorance of some people here who don't understand the side of other players... But I guess as long as it is good for you then everyone else should shut up.[COLOR="red"]

Insane gear in violet hold? Gear resets actually made heroics gear worthless, and again, people were doing it even without need of gear, drops, and even before LFG came with allt he benefits. People were doing them for FUN.
Doing heroics for gold? Seriously? It must be one of the least effective ways to earn gold in this game... you must be ashamed of trying to use that excuse to justify the huge amount of heroics being done at that time.

Again, its a lie that you AOEd them form day one, you have serious memory problems.

You oneshotted 5 man heroic trash with heroic raid gear 3 tiers above them in an exponential growing game. Think before posting pelase.


The rewards were worse than the Cata ones, because for half ane xpansion, without LFG you didnt evenr earned the rewards for random queuing. People werent dfoing them for the rewards, they were doing them for FUN.

And last, i wasnt comparing Wrath heroics with TBC ones, you should really read the posts you quote before replying them.

Name calling is also an offense in this forum, so please try not to do it again, thanks.

[Vankrys]

I remember the time where dungeons were made for fun, that time was WotLK. I could run 10 heroics a day (without LFG, without needing badges, without needing gear) just because they WERE FUN.

Then Cata came, and everything besides Stonecore seemed like a chore to me. 1 hour + long dungeons where you had to kill the same pack of trash over and over just to get to a boss that had one shot mechanics so as a healer you couldnt help your party survive besides the normal damage. But of course, we healed like shit at the start of cata, throwing 6k heals to a 100k tank so its not like we could do much in non one shot mechanics.

TBC heroics were run a lot less than Wrath ones, take off your rose tinted glasses.

Also, i am 31 and i have enough challenges in my life to seek them in a video game. My advice to you: seek challenges in your life and you wont have the need to have them in every feature of every single computer game.

I guess my best answer would be that we are two different person with two very different brain chemistry.
My brain generate endophine when he is engage in intense cerebral activity, shallow or easy activity tend to lose interest and concentration. As a matter of fact, when doing the faceroll easy wolk heroic, my brain was actually performing other activity (thinking about housework, about work, about family) which sometimes end up me making fatal mistake ingame.

I have no memorable ancedote from wolk heroics, i know from the time i get in, i would be clearing it.
I have so many memorable moent from vanilla/TBC

Who hasn't have a hunter forget to dismiss his pet before jumping in the arena.
Man the first time i saw the "princess" of maraudon i heard so much about.
Trying to find improbable short cut in LBRS
I remember scholomance when it was tighly packed.

i somehow distincly remember the strat of many TBC boss strat, simply for having failed so many time on it before mastering it. I am not sure i could spell the exact strat for any wolk boss, most of the time, you just zerg it.

My glasses may be pink, but wolk glasses are so dark, it's depressing.
I'm 35, like most of you at my age, i do have work, family to take care, life project ... thus i don't play that much.

But some way some how, i like a challenge when i play. It doesn't matter if i can't do 10 heroics in a week. If can only do 1, but a great and challenging one, it would be worth it.

Quality over quantity, that is what growing old taught me.

[Thunderaan the Windseeker]

The heroics are easy enough that some people have completed the meta achievement already
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...chievement#168

[Crashdummy]

I guess my best answer would be that we are two different person with two very different brain chemistry.
My brain generate endophine when he is engage in intense cerebral activity, shallow or easy activity tend to lose interest and concentration. As a matter of fact, when doing the faceroll easy wolk heroic, my brain was actually performing other activity (thinking about housework, about work, about family) which sometimes end up me making fatal mistake ingame.

I have no memorable ancedote from wolk heroics, i know from the time i get in, i would be clearing it.
I have so many memorable moent from vanilla/TBC

Who hasn't have a hunter forget to dismiss his pet before jumping in the arena.
Man the first time i saw the "princess" of maraudon i heard so much about.
Trying to find improbable short cut in LBRS
I remember scholomance when it was tighly packed.

i somehow distincly remember the strat of many TBC boss strat, simply for having failed so many time on it before mastering it. I am not sure i could spell the exact strat for any wolk boss, most of the time, you just zerg it.

My glasses may be pink, but wolk glasses are so dark, it's depressing.
I'm 35, like most of you at my age, i do have work, family to take care, life project ... thus i don't play that much.

But some way some how, i like a challenge when i play. It doesn't matter if i can't do 10 heroics in a week. If can only do 1, but a great and challenging one, it would be worth it.

Quality over quantity, that is what growing old taught me.

there are more than two different people with different brain chemistry.

but if you want to take about the brain biology, the brain cant be in full activity the whole time or it will have health repercussions. Brain needs to relax every now and then (thats why mosts heavy intensive brain jobs have short shifts or forced break in between).
Again, maybe you are in a continous break in your everyday life and because of that you seek the intense activity in a gme.

You brain doesnt generate endorphine with every intense cerebral activity, it generates endorphine when tyhat activity is one you enjoy, for example some brains generate endorphine with intense cerebral activity regarding numbers and exact sciences, other generate them with intense cerebral activity regarding social skills, etc.
You cant split brains into two categories.

I have none memorable moments in ANY game, and i have been playing since the 80s where i got my ZX Spectrum and in particular in WoW since vanilla.
I have A LOT of memorable moments IRL.

I agree in quality over quantity, thats why i prefer Wrath dungeons all day long.

If you want challenging your brain in a game, i recommend you game like the incredible machine or something like that, not an MMO.

If you call seeing Princess in Maraudon a memorable moment, then i feel sorry for you because you dont really know what is a memorable moment.

[Vankrys]

I have none memorable moments in ANY game, and i have been playing since the 80s where i got my ZX Spectrum and in particular in WoW since vanilla.
I have A LOT of memorable moments IRL.

Why do you emphasize so much your IRL. Everyone has one. why your's so much better?

My IRL is my own, it may be great, it may be poor, you'll never know. But i don't think i should use it as an argument on forum discussion about video games. I am glad you have good memory about your IRL, i'm pretty sure everyone here does too.

[Crashdummy]

Why do you emphasize so much your IRL. Everyone has one. why your's so much better?

My IRL is my own, it may be great, it may be poor, you'll never know. But i don't think i should use it as an argument on forum discussion about video games. I am glad you have good memory about your IRL, i'm pretty sure everyone here does too.

Because im tired of people using challenge as if its equal to fun, when its not. Challenge has NO RELATION to fun. There are some challenging things that can be fun for x person and non challenging people that are fun for that same person.

Of course, Y person will find fun in different things than X, but BOTH will fin some challenging things fun and some non challenging things fun.

I'm also tired of over exxageration of thing in Vanilla/TBC wow, like calling memorable to SEE princess. Memorable is the birth of a child (which by the way is not challenging), not seeing a dungeon boss in a game.

[Deleted]

The heroics are easy enough that some people have completed the meta achievement already
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...chievement#168

This is interesting though, for the same player.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...68:15115:a6378

Heroics are not meant to be TBC and start of cata hard, this is deliberate.

Challenge modes are where you get that special snowflake felling!

[Vankrys]

Because im tired of people using challenge as if its equal to fun, when its not.

still not accepting that some player are in search of a thrill, of a challenge

I'm also tired of over exxageration of thing in Vanilla/TBC wow,

Why is it so difficult to understand that people like different thing. Hell some people may very much enjoy games that other don't. There is no stardard of what is likeable and what is not

Memorable is the birth of a child (which by the way is not challenging), not seeing a dungeon boss in a game.

Man you have issues. Now you are introducing a child birth in a 5-man dungeon discussion. You are way off topic.