Level 90 Talents... still

[Deleted]

I don't even remotely care about the level 90 talents, I picked MF because although it doesn't do what the tooltip of the spell states (increases ALL aoe spells by 500%) I still found it to be the least useless talent.

AV reflects a trickle of negligible damage and is actually counterproductive in PvP.

And for the life of me i'll never touch that horrendous KJ with a barge pole, i'm already immobile as it is, rather not have a snare on me tyvm.

So yeah, MF simply as it's a QoL improvement, the other two are junk. Guess I can take AV for some passive damage increase in raids, but hey, it's not even "fire and forget" it's simply passive... What kind of "interesting" thing is there about your level 90 talents being counterproductive or unnoticable? I dunno.

[Teddybearavenger]

Resurrected my old account just to post in this thread.

Our talents aren't interesting. At all. They're borderline useless.

The passive effect of Archimonde's vengeance is the only thing that's ever going to be useful. And how's that for a lvl 90 talent?..

ROFLMAO what game are you guys even playing? warlocks are insanely awesome across the board. The only thing I would like changed is demon form.

[Phoenexis]

I'm actually very happy with the 90 row.

The mandate for the 90 row was "useful to increase damage in different situations, but not on single target fight"

In 5.1, KJC's cast time nerf is coming down to 30%. MF is the pick of choice for top end raiders and challenge mode players while AV is the pick for people who want to never think about pushing another button.

Pandemic is actually huge for demonology, as they don't have to stance dance Doom anymore.

Things I am not happy with:

Demonic Portal despawning
Infernal AI
Mind Control AI using Shards/Fury/Embers
Felhunter being top DPS pet
Hellfire
Harvest Life
Flames of Xoroth

Things I am happy with but didn't expect:

Shadowburn while soloing
Destruction's performance in real situations

Things I think are too strong but will probably leave alone for now:

Demonology AoE
Soulburn: Soul Swap
Grimoire of Sacrifice

If there's one thing that I've really come to like as Destruction, it's Shadowburn during solo play and random BGs. I have to admit that it gives a pretty awesome feeling, although there's slight delay.

As for FoX, it is quite annoying. Please, please, please, give all specs the old Soul Shard system back (although that'd be cumbersome with 2 different resources), or allow them to equally gain benefit. That means DC:TP, instant petswitch and instant Soul Fire/Chaos Bolt for all, at a reasonable cost.

For petswitch: Affliction uses 1 Shard, Destruction 5 ember-bits and Demonology 150/200 DF (in addition to Demonic Rebirth).
For DC:TP: Affliction uses 1 Shard, Destruction 5 ember-bits and Demonology 200 DF
For instant Soul Fire/Instant Chaos Bolt/Haunt: Affliction uses 1 Shard, Destruction 1 ember (lose the damage of a second CB for a speed up on the first, seems fair) and Demonology 200 DF.


FoX is really broken and has taken something that used to be amazing from Destruction. It's not fair to have to use a whole ember simply to rez a previous pet that died in 4 seconds.

[savvasp]

We could all roll with 5 talent points instead of 6 and see zero impact on our pve or pvp gameplay. That's nuts.

Rain of Fire the whole arena will be kind of a big impact against rogues and ferals in 3v3

[Deleted]

The whole arena? Not even close. Though I do agree that out of our 3 talents, that is the most promising application, which is a pretty sad indictment on the state of our level 90 talents. Anyway, I have been running around with AV and so far I've used it once exactly, just to test it out. If I'm going to take heavy damage in pvp I'm sure as hell not going to stand around and try to reflect a paltry 25% of that, I'm going to be busy doing everything I can to avoid that damage in the first place. Between my fears, mortal coil, silence/stun, grimoire:silence/stun, teleports, etc, there's no reason I should be wasting my time popping AV.

If it reflected 100% damage (from the attacker only for balance sake) for the next two/three seconds, now that would be interesting.

[pokeadott]

You know a tier of talents sucks, when I would take the ghetto on-use ability of KC, but only if it came without the 'cast while move passive' design of the talent, over *any* of the current spells in the tier.

How to fix...

1) AV on-use reflects 100% of the damage taken over 2-3 seconds (thanks poster above for an awesome idea!). Same dmg output, makes the talent actually useful as a counter. Ideally usable while stunned (anti shatter, anti killspree, anti big raid dmg ability, anti etc. once every 2 minutes is balanced and adds some interesting/intelligent gameplay).

2) KC allows Incin/MG/SBolt to be cast while moving, but they do 5% less dmg (no cast time/run snares). Not a dps increase at all, in fact usually a loss! But useful on heavy movement fights, pvp, and soloing.

3) MF - I hate it, but w/e. Just add Howl/SFury/Whiplash to it and we'll call it a day.

[Deleted]

Imo our 90 talents r a complete joke, and whats more frustrating is that allot of locks told blizzard this pre release yet nothing. I don' caret if they have thier uses, there completely un imagintive and incredibly lack luster. Ok so we got some nice changes else where but what anoys me is that they are bare face way below the line of what a lvl 90 talent stabdard should be. There not just a bit boring or useless, they r horrific.

What i don't undersdtand is how they let these desgins get threw the door. Not just about locks, look at the theramore event. If i was GC looking at tht in house i would be embarresed for tht to hit the shelfs. It just seems like od blips (sorry for the QQ and i am still loving my lock and enjoying the expac thus far )

[Deleted]

Please try to type with your hands next time Randytravis...

2) KC allows Incin/MG/SBolt to be cast while moving, but they do 5% less dmg (no cast time/run snares). Not a dps increase at all, in fact usually a loss! But useful on heavy movement fights, pvp, and soloing.

I actually like this , it could probably help a lot Destro on high movement fights or challenge modes. But 5% is kind of a big damage loss considering the part of Incinerate in Destruction's DPS. Shamans have something similar : http://www.wowdb.com/items/71155-gly...shed-lightning

[Phoenexis]

Except that screams out Scorch and Lightning Bolt. KjC is just a complete rip-off, I'd rather see us gaining mobility in another way to be honest.

[Deleted]

I don't understand why most people only want talents that are related to damage. Talents like damage inceasing abilities are nothing but prime glyphs (in the way that there is no choice since there is only one that is the best) and they are just another button to press. Warlocks have one of the best talent trees since it offers a lot of utility and playstile instead of dps CD's that make the rest of the spells hit less just for the sake of balance (same damage divided by more sources).

[pokeadott]

Except that screams out Scorch and Lightning Bolt. KjC is just a complete rip-off, I'd rather see us gaining mobility in another way to be honest.

I'm fine with rip-offs if they work for the class. And in this case, that's already the spirit of the spell. I just want it converted into something useable. No one is ever taking a 30-50% cast penalty. Period. It needs to go, and they need to mod the spell if necessary for it to even be a consideration.

[Phoenexis]

I'm fine with rip-offs if they work for the class. And in this case, that's already the spirit of the spell. I just want it converted into something useable. No one is ever taking a 30-50% cast penalty. Period. It needs to go, and they need to mod the spell if necessary for it to even be a consideration.

No I agree with you. I'd much rather have the spell without the passive too. What I'm talking about is the spirit of the spell: casting while moving.

[Gratlim]

They are extremely underwelming indeed. I only use AV passive 5%. But 5% is so low...tbh lock got nerfed..ehem..."balance" so much in beta they perform quite bad both in pvp or pve. Hope it changes as we gear up, but scaling is scaling but so far so bad

[Abominatus]

I'm actually very happy with the 90 row.

The mandate for the 90 row was "useful to increase damage in different situations, but not on single target fight"

In 5.1, KJC's cast time nerf is coming down to 30%. MF is the pick of choice for top end raiders and challenge mode players while AV is the pick for people who want to never think about pushing another button.

Pandemic is actually huge for demonology, as they don't have to stance dance Doom anymore.

Things I am not happy with:

Demonic Portal despawning
Infernal AI
Mind Control AI using Shards/Fury/Embers
Felhunter being top DPS pet
Hellfire
Harvest Life
Flames of Xoroth

Things I am happy with but didn't expect:

Shadowburn while soloing
Destruction's performance in real situations

Things I think are too strong but will probably leave alone for now:

Demonology AoE
Soulburn: Soul Swap
Grimoire of Sacrifice

It is strange that you spent entire threads telling us how Destruction is fine, Simcraft is talking nonsense and all the specs perform equivalently, and then express surprise that one of the specs is performing adequately. Either you weren't being honest originally, or you aren't being honest now.

Putting that aside, though, I should point out, from a fair amount of experience since launch, that the only reason Destro is competing at all in heroics is the strength of Shadowburn. It seems HIGHLY unlikely to me that Shadowburn's strength will translate well to raids except in encounters with significant add counts.

Also, unless I'm doing it wrong, there's no possible way in which either affliction or destruction AoE can be considered even remotely competitive with melee such as warriors and DKs.

Oh yes, and I'm also in the camp of those who think you missed the mark completely with the lvl 90 talents. They're all boring, insipid and only marginally useful. Also, regarding your comment on MF being the choice for "high-end raiders and challenge-mode players": On what planet? Yes, it's strong for Demo because it increases the area of HoG. Not for either of the other specs, where mostly it gets you swarmed by adds you didn't want to pull.

[wholol]

to all the people talking about MF and rain of fire, plz consider it's a destro niche, you will never cast RoF in other specs, it's channeled and useless, you can only cover one part while channeling unlike instant spammable RoF as destro, so MF + RoF spam for destro might be decent for finding stealthers, can you justify that destro will be a viable spec to play in arena since that's what most people are talking about RoF/MF being OP.

[Lucidious]

Finding stealthy's does not make the spec viable. And I think MF is the only real talent worth getting right now for pve OR pvp as AV is just to weak and KJC is just HORRIBLE period lol. I still just dont see why howl/shadowfury/whiplash are unaffected though cause its not like they will be to OP or anything.

[Xelnath]

Being fine on a bot and being fantastic in dungeons, solo content and so on, are two different things.

I'm just impressed with how well it works.

[Gobuchul]

Windsong currently does not proc at all for caster DPS.

[pokeadott]

I'm just impressed with how well it works.

With how well what works?

Not sure what you're addressing, as pretty much every lock that has posted in this or any thread on our lvl 90 tier is extremely disappointed with it. Any chance the devs will listen to the players on this one, or are we going to be forced to have essentially one less talent than every other class?

[Nikijih]

With how well what works?

Not sure what you're addressing, as pretty much every lock that has posted in this or any thread on our lvl 90 tier is extremely disappointed with it. Any chance the devs will listen to the players on this one, or are we going to be forced to have essentially one less talent than every other class?

He is talking about Destro in reply to this:

It is strange that you spent entire threads telling us how Destruction is fine, Simcraft is talking nonsense and all the specs perform equivalently, and then express surprise that one of the specs is performing adequately.

He already confirmed that our movement talent is getting its cast time reduction reduced from -50% to -30%, but ill be honest that will not be enough. As long as there will be a penalty to balance the gain, the talent will be pointless. The goal is to enhance our toons, not trade off one aspect for another. The 6 seconds of freecast would be nice if it wasnt a lvl 90 talent while Shammies get 12 seconds baseline.

As for the other two, imo they need complete redesign. AV is just pointless at 5% passive, while the active is still too weak to be anything but extremely situational, not to mention counter-productive on a class wearing cloth (aka trying to avoid taking damage as much as possible). Mannoroth itself is decent, but there are two glaring issues with it: (A) the range becomes a liability as it tends to pull crap you never wanted to pull and (B) its frankly uninspired and quite boring for a end-game (lvl 90) talent.

You can say that each talent is only balanced towards the other 2 in its tier all you want, that is not how players see and feel them. The skill is not in just any tier, it is in our lat tier, our ultimate talents, and we expect them to be worthy of the wait and expectation that creates. They are not.