Hold up, WTF happened to rogues?

[Itisamuh]

Actually i think we should really have our regular throw apply poisons.. right now the only use is keeping the enemy in combat and tbh, it applying poisons wouldnt even be OP. (Refer: Shuriken Throw)

Honestly though, the Arena Pass has just opened and after finishing itemizing the character i ended up with 48.27% PvP Power and over 46% mastery. The amount of damage i can dish out with cooldowns up is really really insane.

The problem is is that i dont want that damage, i want proper control :/

Rogue damage is fine, it's everything else that's suffering. The cooldowns are just too long.

[Vokal]

Why are they so shitty in MoP? I thought everything was supposed to balance out at 90. I'm not sure if they got nerfed too much or other classes just got buffed, but this class is shitty.

They just got balanced bro and aren't OP anymore unlike in Cata which was basically world of roguecraft or rather world of myroguesaheroclass etc.

[Deleted]

Actually i think we should really have our regular throw apply poisons.. right now the only use is keeping the enemy in combat and tbh, it applying poisons wouldnt even be OP. (Refer: Shuriken Throw)

Honestly though, the Arena Pass has just opened and after finishing itemizing the character i ended up with 48.27% PvP Power and over 46% mastery. The amount of damage i can dish out with cooldowns up is really really insane.

The problem is is that i dont want that damage, i want proper control :/

The burst with Shadow Dance with or without Shadow Blades is quite insane indeed, but that's pretty much all the damage we have.

They would have to nerf the throwing speed though or deadly poison would cause some madness...

[Flaks]

If the class is on par with the rest, why did so many top rogues switch class and why it's so under-represented in 3v3 arena right now? If it wasn't for Ecliptium, one would say they have disappeared from the entire thing.

---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 12:31 AM ----------



And some more mobility. And Faerie Fire duration changed.

That's the grass is greener effect. For some reason though, this was als the case in s9 where we were in a very similar scenario. Rogues were damn viable then it's just people went fotm.

Literally the only issue rogues are facing right now is with obnoxiously long cds (which is an obvious oversight and one I can't understand how Blizzard didn't figure out). Other than that you are fine in literally ever department (fine being that you're competitive with spriests, ferals, locks etc. maybe not warriors or bm hunters or mages though since they're just flat out broken but don't expect that to last...except mages).

[vindicatorx]

Yeah I haven't had time to level my rogue up yet but I have destroyed the few that tried to jack my Shadow Priest.

[Deleted]

That's the grass is greener effect. For some reason though, this was als the case in s9 where we were in a very similar scenario. Rogues were damn viable then it's just people went fotm.

Literally the only issue rogues are facing right now is with obnoxiously long cds (which is an obvious oversight and one I can't understand how Blizzard didn't figure out). Other than that you are fine in literally ever department (fine being that you're competitive with spriests, ferals, locks etc. maybe not warriors or bm hunters or mages though since they're just flat out broken but don't expect that to last...except mages).

If people go FOTM instead of rogue it's because rogue is not "damn viable", it's common sense. You can't say it's literally the only issue when you have Shadow Step and Preparation on the same tier. Mobility kinda blows. Why exactly do all three plate classes have more mobility than the leather class?

[Deleted]

My thoughts about rogue now, we've lost a good part of our passive abilities, like nightstalker, combat readiness, cheat death, Prep, shadowstep, dirty tricks. And if i choose Preparation i have 0 gap closer unless sprint that is easy counterable, still unless i blow 1 of mine 2min cd (clos). Shadowstep Imho should be baseline for every spec (not resetted by prep).
Damage are fine (for sub), i can stand at the fact that i can do dmg once every 1 min (SD), its ok. But why for the love of f**k dirty tricks isn't baseline anymore? i cant gouge my target because of hemorrage bleed in sub and poison in assassination.

For assassination that i think deal more dmg, suffer from energy regen, and maybe haste have to scale better for assassination, or mutilate cost reduced to 50 energy

Fixing this imho will be a good step forward

[Flaks]

If people go FOTM instead of rogue it's because rogue is not "damn viable", it's common sense. You can't say it's literally the only issue when you have Shadow Step and Preparation on the same tier. Mobility kinda blows. Why exactly do all three plate classes have more mobility than the leather class?

Except they don't...where are you even getting that from?

Rogues: sprint. Baseline 15% increased movement speed.
Rets: hof. Baseline 15% increased movement speed.
Dks: nothing. Only unholy with increased movement speed (frost prefers to stay in frost presence).
Warriors: charge/heroic leap.

Talents:
Rogues: burst of speed or ss (both are exceptional, the former being far better than anything plate classes get)
Rets: first tier blah blah.
Dks: Death's advance. Competes with other viable choices that don't help mobility.
Warriors: double charge/juggernaut + avatar. Not going to include safe guard cause all the warriors are picking mass reflect right now.

Rogues are COMPETETIVE with dk and ret mobility. They have a fuckton more control. They are also still one of only 3 classes with a 70% movement speed decrease. They're burst is comparable to rets and dks.

They're lacking in sustained. So are rets and warriors. They have stupidly long cds on many abilities. So do warriors and dks.

They have exceptional defensive cds to the extent that them wearing leather hasn't mattered since wotlk.

Warriors are not a great comparison because they're undeniably op. Rets and dks are a good comparison. And rogues are easily competetive with both. Quit your bitching.

Oh and inb4 "THEY'RE REPRESENTATION IS SO LOW". Dk's are represented only because now that warriors are over the top and they synergize well together. Pallies are obviously fine but only because it's the most played class in the game period and holy is viable. RMP, RLS etc. etc. are still all very rank 1 viable comps.

[Deleted]

Except they don't...where are you even getting that from?

Rogues: sprint. Baseline 15% increased movement speed.
Rets: hof. Baseline 15% increased movement speed.
Dks: nothing. Only unholy with increased movement speed (frost prefers to stay in frost presence).
Warriors: charge/heroic leap.

Talents:
Rogues: burst of speed or ss (both are exceptional, the former being far better than anything plate classes get)
Rets: first tier blah blah.
Dks: Death's advance. Competes with other viable choices that don't help mobility.
Warriors: double charge/juggernaut + avatar. Not going to include safe guard cause all the warriors are picking mass reflect right now.

Rogues are COMPETETIVE with dk and ret mobility. They have a fuckton more control. They are also still one of only 3 classes with a 70% movement speed decrease. They're burst is comparable to rets and dks.

They're lacking in sustained. So are rets and warriors. They have stupidly long cds on many abilities. So do warriors and dks.

They have exceptional defensive cds to the extent that them wearing leather hasn't mattered since wotlk.

Warriors are not a great comparison because they're undeniably op. Rets and dks are a good comparison. And rogues are easily competetive with both. Quit your bitching.

Oh and inb4 "THEY'RE REPRESENTATION IS SO LOW". Dk's are represented only because now that warriors are over the top and they synergize well together. Pallies are obviously fine but only because it's the most played class in the game period and holy is viable. RMP, RLS etc. etc. are still all very rank 1 viable comps.

I don't like your attitude. Drop that tone, man, I'm certainly not bitching, just stating some facts and some personal opinion. You, in the other hand, are claiming that rogues are damn viable and competitive while ignoring the facts, that so many top rogues switched to other classes due to long CDs and mobility concerns.

I'll stop discussing with you because you either need to re-educate yourself or stop being malicious. You're comparing rogue to ret mobility and mention sprint, 15% speed, but not : Hand of Freedom, Emancipate or longer range CC.

How can anyone take you seriously after something like this?

[Evolixe]

Just played a bit of warrior..

I am so sad...

[shalnath]

Do people that think Burst of Speed is amazing realize you only get one or the other? You don't get the speed and root/snare immunity. You get one of them.

But anyway, I think rogues are mostly okay. Cooldowns could really use some slight reductions and mobility could be fixed but other than that I think they're fine. Everyone else could stand to come back down to earth a little though.

[Evolixe]

Burst of Speed is aweful. If it actually gave both benefits it would be considerable, maybe.

[Dcruize]

Burst of Speed is aweful. If it actually gave both benefits it would be considerable, maybe.

I've had to drop ShS for BoS vs any comp with a DK or mage - I hate it, but with 8second dispels I'm just permanently eating roots without it. Stacking haste... meh the energy hit is still a nerf but it beats spending a third of the game rooted.

[Norzuk]

I've had to drop ShS for BoS vs any comp with a DK or mage - I hate it, but with 8second dispels I'm just permanently eating roots without it. Stacking haste... meh the energy hit is still a nerf but it beats spending a third of the game rooted.

At this point you won't get enough haste to make it viable. The way I see, and some people may complain about it is that rogues need some CDs to be tuned down, 5mins isn't reasonable for a class 110% dependant on CDs.

Energy regen is also a problem, maybe givin some more energy recovery mechs would help. The dmg are not scalling right, poison is way more important, maybe the phis dmg should get some attention, helping combat to get back to top dps rogue spec.

These are my thoughts.

[shise]

l2p issue to be honest.

Rogues were always about control, but people now think that tehy suck because tehy don't own everyone in a faceroll wrath anymore.

Seriously tho, rogues are not that far behind, a good rogue can still beat anything.

[Norzuk]

l2p issue to be honest.

Rogues were always about control, but people now think that tehy suck because tehy don't own everyone in a faceroll wrath anymore.

Seriously tho, rogues are not that far behind, a good rogue can still beat anything.

Troll post. If you ever played a rogue you would know that rogues are assassins and they ALWAYS killed things in a couple of seconds besides plate wearers, and outisde their Cds they are usually nothing, it has being like this since vanila when most cloth died in a global cd (ambush+backstab).

However, I see the point, the way rogues are there isn't much uniquiness in their specs and the dmg is very low. Probably blizz designed them like they would keep their legendaries. And COMBAT is a long forgoten spec.

[Evolixe]

I've had to drop ShS for BoS vs any comp with a DK or mage - I hate it, but with 8second dispels I'm just permanently eating roots without it. Stacking haste... meh the energy hit is still a nerf but it beats spending a third of the game rooted.

I don't think haste is any good. Not any good at all.

And no, not even vs mage dk teams its worth it simply because it doesnt boost your speed ASWELL. If shadowstep isn't the option, preparation is. BoS is to be ignored completely.

[Dcruize]

I don't think haste is any good. Not any good at all.
And no, not even vs mage dk teams its worth it simply because it doesnt boost your speed ASWELL. If shadowstep isn't the option, preparation is. BoS is to be ignored completely.

Unless you're playing assassination, haste has been shown to be a better stat than both mastery and crit. I'm finding BoS worth it for breaking novas/chains, regardless of the lack of speed increase. Vs any other comps I'd take ShS.

[Evolixe]

Unless you're playing assassination, haste has been shown to be a better stat than both mastery and crit. I'm finding BoS worth it for breaking novas/chains, regardless of the lack of speed increase. Vs any other comps I'd take ShS.

For PvE, yeah. But this isn't PvE, and so the stat wages can be throw out of the window because they mean nothing.

Mastery and after that Crit are both far better for short term burst damage than Haste. Everytime you cap energy, the value of haste is absolutely zero.

[Rorke]

I love the people in here that act like Season 11 lasted seven years and Rogues were always top melee. Its hilarious to see some posters here who said Rogues had too much control and pvp cooldowns in Season 11, but now want Rogues to have more utility and believe "Rogue damage is fine."

Has anyone here actually seen Rogue damage against plate? Its absolutely atrocious. Those 8k Mutilate crits are scary. The only time Rogues can actually do any form of damage is from burst, but that burst doesn't even compare to BM or Arms. So what is exactly the point of playing a Rogue again?