Kuni's Frost Mage PVE Guide

[Carebearr]

How is frost for Heroic siegecrafter? Would be nice not having to re-gem/reforge to fire, can't stand it after the combustion nerf.

[Phair]

How is frost for Heroic siegecrafter? Would be nice not having to re-gem/reforge to fire, can't stand it after the combustion nerf.

Largely depends on what strat your guild decides to employ and what your job is. Personally in the vacuum of my own guild I've seen no real difference between the two specs to perfer one over the other.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/6...ses&boss=71504

[Deleted]

Frost is amazing on heroic siegecrafter!!!!

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-q16nyvsea90ax7zs/

[Strafir]

Could we start a discussion about whats going on in the logs of people who are stacking mass mastery and dumping ridiculous amounts of damage with Icicles? I understand that on paper getting haste to 48% seems like a fantastic idea but because of input lag and latency I just tend to get pissed off because of the ridiculous speed with lust/meta.

Here is my profile:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...trafirz/simple

After gemming and reforging I'm sitting on about 89% mastery during raids while breaking the 13k breakpoints on both NT and LB. I would very much like to use two RPPM trinkets (I have a 548 toxic totem) but am uncertain if I should use it over the Immerseus trinket? To glyph or not to glyph icy veins?

Personally I've been doing more single target damage like this even tho it is quite annoying to have to use Rune of Power to not OOM constantly because of the lack of ice lance procs. Any input or experience you could provide would be awesome.

[Libretto]

You should never need rune of power as frost. In the unlikely event you get really awful procs and are going OOM a few seconds before you would need to evocate to refresh invocation, just use a mana gem.

Mass mastery is great. If you can get to the higher haste breakpoints without sacrificing much mastery to do so, it is worth it, but otherwise spam stacking haste is just not the right way to go on most of the fights.

This week I had

Juggernaut: 348339 (#4 overall)
Shamans: 387684 (#8 overall)
Malkorok: 376476 (#4)
Thok: 342956 (#2)

And I'm cursed with gear that has me at an idiotic 8k crit which I can't reforge any further out of.

Just about everyone above me is also stacking mastery beyond a low haste breakpoint, either 9.5k or 13.

All of the "spam stack haste to 18k or more" theory is absolutely false on all but the sustained multitarget fights galakras, norushen, protectors and spoils. On those haste stacking with NT is a gain over mastery, albeit not that large.

[Akraen]

You know, Critique, you can post the same useful information without "going on the attack" against haste stacking.

Why's it gotta be some crusade with you?

[Mastamage]

You know, Critique, you can post the same useful information without "going on the attack" against haste stacking.

Why's it gotta be some crusade with you?

Much nicer than what I had typed originally.

[Ponkster]

You should never need rune of power as frost. In the unlikely event you get really awful procs and are going OOM a few seconds before you would need to evocate to refresh invocation, just use a mana gem.

Mass mastery is great. If you can get to the higher haste breakpoints without sacrificing much mastery to do so, it is worth it, but otherwise spam stacking haste is just not the right way to go on most of the fights.

This week I had

Juggernaut: 348339 (#4 overall)
Shamans: 387684 (#8 overall)
Malkorok: 376476 (#4)
Thok: 342956 (#2)

And I'm cursed with gear that has me at an idiotic 8k crit which I can't reforge any further out of.

Just about everyone above me is also stacking mastery beyond a low haste breakpoint, either 9.5k or 13.

All of the "spam stack haste to 18k or more" theory is absolutely false on all but the sustained multitarget fights galakras, norushen, protectors and spoils. On those haste stacking with NT is a gain over mastery, albeit not that large.

I have very bad gear and can pull top 10 parses stacking haste, hence your parses don't support stacking mastery anymore than mine support stacking haste. Stop telling people the wrong information.

The truth is there isn't that much difference between haste and mastery. Go with the play style you prefer and make sure you hit the main haste breakpoints if going for a mastery build. Which ever route you take (dependent on gear; I also have around 7k crit) get the most out out of your bomb snap shots and use procs accordingly and you will do solid damage as frost. Haste will give you more procs to work with, mastery build will give you less procs but more passive damage from icicles. Try both and go with what you enjoy more.

[Strafir]

Obviously I tried keeping up with mana gems but the cooldown is far longer than being within the intervals that I need mana back. By running out of mana often I literally mean that almost every Invocation buff has 10+ seconds left when I run completely out and I'm forced to rechannel, when the Rune keeps me at full constantly.

Invocation has its time and place in aoe fights like spoils, but how can Rune be such a bad idea for a fight like Malkorok? To further the discussion:

How do you feel about playing without glyphed Icy veins?
How about Toxic totem vs Immerseus trinket (with ~550 gear)?
Have you switch to mage armor and just increased haste from gear?

- - - Updated - - -

I have very bad gear and can pull top 10 parses stacking haste, hence your parses don't support stacking mastery anymore than mine support stacking haste. Stop telling people the wrong information.

The truth is there isn't that much difference between haste and mastery. Go with the play style you prefer and make sure you hit the main haste breakpoints if going for a mastery build. Which ever route you take (dependent on gear; I also have around 7k crit) get the most out out of your bomb snap shots and use procs accordingly and you will do solid damage as frost. Haste will give you more procs to work with, mastery build will give you less procs but more passive damage from icicles. Try both and go with what you enjoy more.

Sounds like alot of empty talk from someone who doesn't provide any links. I find it very hard to believe that feelings have anything to do with one being more beneficial than the other, one will just make more sense than the other.

[Ponkster]

Obviously I tried keeping up with mana gems but the cooldown is far longer than being within the intervals that I need mana back. By running out of mana often I literally mean that almost every Invocation buff has 10+ seconds left when I run completely out and I'm forced to rechannel, when the Rune keeps me at full constantly.

Invocation has its time and place in aoe fights like spoils, but how can Rune be such a bad idea for a fight like Malkorok? To further the discussion:

How do you feel about playing without glyphed Icy veins?
How about Toxic totem vs Immerseus trinket (with ~550 gear)?
Have you switch to mage armor and just increased haste from gear?

- - - Updated - - -



Sounds like alot of empty talk from someone who doesn't provide any links. I find it very hard to believe that feelings have anything to do with one being more beneficial than the other, one will just make more sense than the other.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...0H/Frost_Mage/

I'm number 3, would of done better with living bomb but I forgot to change.

I am trying to help people, not hinder them. I am completely open minded and not taking sides with either haste or mastery; I take a neutral stance, which is why I say go with which play style suits you best. If you don't like that then your probably just lazy and want an easy answer, which doesn't really exist. You will with good play, get good numbers with both.

[Mastamage]

Obviously I tried keeping up with mana gems but the cooldown is far longer than being within the intervals that I need mana back. By running out of mana often I literally mean that almost every Invocation buff has 10+ seconds left when I run completely out and I'm forced to rechannel, when the Rune keeps me at full constantly.

Invocation has its time and place in aoe fights like spoils, but how can Rune be such a bad idea for a fight like Malkorok? To further the discussion:

How do you feel about playing without glyphed Icy veins?
How about Toxic totem vs Immerseus trinket (with ~550 gear)?
Have you switch to mage armor and just increased haste from gear?

I run with over 20k haste rating and have never run out of mana while Invocation is still up outside of a Lust phase. Even then, I run out of mana with ~5-7 secs left.

Sure RoP MIGHT work on turret fights but any movement you make (Malkorok can be unpredictable) you're chancing that 15% damage buff. Invocation allows for dps on the move without losing that buff.

Unglyph Icy Veins for 3+ targets.
Purified Bindings and Toxic Totem are BiS together for ST.
7% haste > 3k mastery rating

[Strafir]

I run with over 20k haste rating and have never run out of mana while Invocation is still up outside of a Lust phase. Even then, I run out of mana with ~5-7 secs left.

Sure RoP MIGHT work on turret fights but any movement you make (Malkorok can be unpredictable) you're chancing that 15% damage buff. Invocation allows for dps on the move without losing that buff.

Unglyph Icy Veins for 3+ targets.
Purified Bindings and Toxic Totem are BiS together for ST.
7% haste > 3k mastery rating

I can't run out of mana with ~19k haste either but that isn't relevant to the situation now is it. The more haste you have, the faster you regen back and that rate isn't very quick when it comes to 9k or 13k haste when you're also losing all those lances in the process.

From what I've gathered and experienced myself the proc rate on the binding is horrendous and only start giving huge bonuses when the rest of your gear is in the 570 ilvl area, when im stuck at more or less 20 below that. Two RPPM trinkets just feel so good and the passive bonus of toxic totem doesn't really fall behind.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...0H/Frost_Mage/

I'm number 3, would of done better with living bomb but I forgot to change.

I am trying to help people, not hinder them. I am completely open minded and not taking sides with either haste or mastery; I take a neutral stance, which is why I say go with which play style suits you best. If you don't like that then your probably just lazy and want an easy answer, which doesn't really exist. You will with good play, get good numbers with both.

563 ilvl gear hardly qualifies as bad and Dark shamans is probably the nr1 encounter in the instance where frost literally shits on everything and everyone because of the aggressive cleave even tho you for some reason didn't bother using Blizzard at all.

Nor am I asking someone else which spec I should play, rather if someone has any experience of making it work optimally because the +19k haste frost just doesn't work properly with 40-50ms and I would rather spec Fire with suboptimal gear than continue with it.

[Mastamage]

I can't run out of mana with ~19k haste either but that isn't relevant to the situation now is it. The more haste you have, the faster you regen back and that rate isn't very quick when it comes to 9k or 13k haste when you're also losing all those lances in the process.

From what I've gathered and experienced myself the proc rate on the binding is horrendous and only start giving huge bonuses when the rest of your gear is in the 570 ilvl area, when im stuck at more or less 20 below that. Two RPPM trinkets just feel so good and the passive bonus of toxic totem doesn't really fall behind.

I'm at 563 ilvl. Even with 9k or 13k haste I never had a problem with mana. Use whatever lvl 90 talent you need to to fix your mana issue.
And like I said, your BiS for single target is Purified Bindings and KTT. BBoY isn't that far behind KTT, though.

[Tebla]

563 ilvl gear hardly qualifies as bad and Dark shamans is probably the nr1 encounter in the instance where frost literally shits on everything and everyone because of the aggressive cleave even tho you for some reason didn't bother using Blizzard at all.
.

Wait. You use Blizzard? Maybe that's what I am doing wrong. I still stomp the shit out of everyone in my raid but I am no where near the ranking numbers. What is your rotation for the slimes?

[Strafir]

Wait. You use Blizzard? Maybe that's what I am doing wrong. I still stomp the shit out of everyone in my raid but I am no where near the ranking numbers. What is your rotation for the slimes?

Bro there is no rotation, that's probably the beauty of it. If you manage to keep track of the tank with the toxic debuff and place the blizzard between the spawnpoint and yourself, and when a large bunch has spawned you even pet nova them them the damage will be pretty ridiculous. The slow and root keep them pretty stationary.

[Ponkster]

From what I've gathered and experienced myself the proc rate on the binding is horrendous and only start giving huge bonuses when the rest of your gear is in the 570 ilvl area, when im stuck at more or less 20 below that. Two RPPM trinkets just feel so good and the passive bonus of toxic totem doesn't really fall behind.

- - - Updated - - -



563 ilvl gear hardly qualifies as bad and Dark shamans is probably the nr1 encounter in the instance where frost literally shits on everything and everyone because of the aggressive cleave even tho you for some reason didn't bother using Blizzard at all.

Nor am I asking someone else which spec I should play, rather if someone has any experience of making it work optimally because the +19k haste frost just doesn't work properly with 40-50ms and I would rather spec Fire with suboptimal gear than continue with it.

For starters I'm 561 equipped which at this stage is low, mages who have barely cleared normal have better gear than me on my realm. The mages that are mostly top 30 in any WOL parses usually have had great luck with drops or are in top guilds, so trying to break into top against these players is difficult with lesser gear!

You're statements make you look really stupid "didn't bother using blizzard at all" if your using blizzard the adds are alive too long on HC, they come in stages there's usually around 4-5 up maximum at a time which blizzard is not optimal for. "Frost literally shits on everything" definitely why fire and arcane have a lot higher parses than the best frost mages on HC, not only that, the logs compare myself to 'other frost mages' I can't express how stupid your original comment is! Destro locks are crazy on that fight, no frost mage will beat them if they are playing right.

40-50ms is pretty low aswell, I play with between 40-60 at peak times. If you said 100 I could understand.

It just seems like you are arguing for the sake of arguing with no prior knowledge of anything. My original comment was to citrique, because he said that mastery is the only option, he is allowed to have an opinion, he obviously raids at a high level, but he can't be so closed minded when it comes to the whole picture.

We'll end this here, I feel I'm stooping down to your level, I fear you will beat me with experience.

Play what you will, if your lagging mastery is the obvious choice.

[Strafir]

You're statements make you look really stupid "didn't bother using blizzard at all" if your using blizzard the adds are alive too long on HC, they come in stages there's usually around 4-5 up maximum at a time which blizzard is not optimal for. "Frost literally shits on everything" definitely why fire and arcane have a lot higher parses than the best frost mages on HC, not only that, the logs compare myself to 'other frost mages' I can't express how stupid your original comment is! Destro locks are crazy on that fight, no frost mage will beat them if they are playing right.

40-50ms is pretty low aswell, I play with between 40-60 at peak times. If you said 100 I could understand.

It just seems like you are arguing for the sake of arguing with no prior knowledge of anything. My original comment was to citrique, because he said that mastery is the only option, he is allowed to have an opinion, he obviously raids at a high level, but he can't be so closed minded when it comes to the whole picture.

We'll end this here, I feel I'm stooping down to your level, I fear you will beat me with experience.

Play what you will, if your lagging mastery is the obvious choice.

You only have yourself to blame for getting other classes involved in this discussion when I was talking about other mages and specifically your parse when comparing to the two other ranged dps. All the high ranking parses have one thing in common, a ridiculous amount of damage to slimes and you have a whopping zero when both your hunter and warlock have both participated. Blizzard + nova definitely isn't completely useless especially compared to a few flimsy frostbolts.

Input lag and a ms of about 40-50 means that spamqueuing abilities will sometimes shoot the ability trigger to ~500ms so it only seems illogical to push my global cooldown and every cast passively to 1 second why to be really really overwhelmed during bloodlust/meta when I can't even get my abilities to trigger properly with 1,5s global on my warrior.

As far as I know I there hasn't been any arguing here but I guess disagreeing qualifies as that nowadays.

[Mastamage]

there's 3 different builds to Frost this tier. Not one of them is the best 100% of the time.

Take your tampons out and carry on with your day.

[Ponkster]

You only have yourself to blame for getting other classes involved in this discussion when I was talking about other mages and specifically your parse when comparing to the two other ranged dps. All the high ranking parses have one thing in common, a ridiculous amount of damage to slimes and you have a whopping zero when both your hunter and warlock have both participated. Blizzard + nova definitely isn't completely useless especially compared to a few flimsy frostbolts.

Input lag and a ms of about 40-50 means that spamqueuing abilities will sometimes shoot the ability trigger to ~500ms so it only seems illogical to push my global cooldown and every cast passively to 1 second why to be really really overwhelmed during bloodlust/meta when I can't even get my abilities to trigger properly with 1,5s global on my warrior.

As far as I know I there hasn't been any arguing here but I guess disagreeing qualifies as that nowadays.

I can understand when there are a lot of blobs up, around 10, that frost nova into blizzard will work. With the way our guild does the fight, there is never 10 blobs up; maybe 5 at most if the lock hasn't crit a few times. Blizzard in this situation is not at its best, using ice lance cleave with pet nova and frozen orb for FoF generation seems to be far more effective picking the adds off, which are still alive. Another thing to note on HC is movement, the toxic storms are constantly up your ass, channeling blizzard may not always be an option, spamming ice lance seemed to really push out the damage and allowed me to move away from them easily. A frostbolt may seem flimsy however it can generate a FoF charge to use with a 2pc proc and also creates an icicle, so its not all bad.

I don't understand why I have myself to blame, what am I to be upset about? I have answered everything you have wrote on these forums with clear answers. I have showed you my parse of HC Dark Shaman 2nd in EU/US with no stat padding or gimmicks, which you asked for. I give you this information for you to 'disagree with' with no solid evidence of your own. I am more that happy to debate different strategies on hows best to deal with different mechanics in boss fights, but you are asking for help receiving it then completely dismissing what I say. Which is fine, if I have done something illegitimate to get high WoL parses, but I don't see whats wrong.

I have in your words "zero ooze damage" because they are being killed as they spawn by our guild group. I don't need to stat pad on the oozes if we are killing them with ease, totally pointless.

Its what Mastamage says, each build is strong, use whats best for you (what i've said all along to you anyway). Don't sit their trying to ruin my credibility with absolute crap, there is enough of that going round already.

[Fahrenheit451]

there's 3 different builds to Frost this tier. Not one of them is the best 100% of the time.

Take your tampons out and carry on with your day.

I find it difficult to even casually read this thread at this point. People come in here looking for other players' opinions, and then call them idiots for playing in a way that is perfectly viable. It's mind numbingly stupid.