Rogues

[Deleted]

Hi all.
I know you dont like rogues, and you think rogues is the worst class ever. But i play a rogue, and i played a rogue since Vanilla ( lvl 60 )
And i never seen rogues this bad.

We did not get any kewl new spells. NOTHING!
im fine about that? because i loooove rogues.
But i recently dinged 90, i am now full contender with heroic daggers.
Rogues dmg is the worst i have ever seen, we cant kill a single thing? every class with a selfheal outheals our dmg? two rogues can fight forever because of the recupriate?!

So blizzard, is it intended every rogue should reroll monk?

Best regards a frustrated rogue

(sorry for bad english)

[wooootles]

I haven't PvPed at 90 yet, but they did become easier at 85 during 5.0.4.

Rogue qq is best qq. I hope they continue to suffer in pvp.

[Deleted]

Wrong forum i guess if you are talking to blizzard .

[Verain]

There's several new spells man. There's a group stealth, a temporary stealth buff, and shadow blades, an ability that allows you to bypass armor whilst gaining extra combo points. Several of the talents provide new capabilities, such as shuriken throw and burst of speed.

[Petraclese]

Pvping as combat has worked alright for me if you time your CD's correctly. KS just eats people up same with SB/AR mutes damage right now is pretty low in pvp if you can't stay on a target the whole fight

[Eluo]

"Oh, chi and HoPo work much better since they stack on you instead of the target? Ah fuck it, leave combo points on target," I will argue 'ill the the day I die that blizz needs to make this change. Rogues may have been the best designed class from the start, but at this point it's just blizz's excuse to never touch rogues an create a better version of a pve rogue in ww monks. Oh, and recycling our talents.
Alright, I'm done raging. (meaning i rerolled a warr too)

[Deleted]

"Oh, chi and HoPo work much better since they stack on you instead of the target? Ah fuck it, leave combo points on target," I will argue 'ill the the day I die that blizz needs to make this change. Rogues may have been the best designed class from the start, but at this point it's just blizz's excuse to never touch rogues an create a better version of a pve rogue in ww monks. Oh, and recycling our talents.
Alright, I'm done raging. (meaning i rerolled a warr too)

Having combo points stay on targets is a rather major mistake with the current damage-distribution model, in my opinion.

- Finishers play a HUGE part in our damage output; Sub had all its damage rolled into Eviscerate, it keeps SND rolling and buffs poisons for Assassination, it reduces CD times for Combat
- Having combo points stick to targets results in too much damage loss whenever the finisher doesn't make it out in time.
- The problems above "force" rogues to stick to targets that stay alive for extended amounts of time (Think of the Blistering Tentacles on Madness, switching to them as a rogue was essentially a waste of time and a huge loss in dps, but necessary either way)
- It creates issues when AOE'ing, due to the mechanics of Fan of Knives combo point generation
- It needlessly inconveniences our ability to AOE in general, if the mob we're currently targeting dies before the rest of them

There are plenty of drawbacks to the combo points - on target system. There are no benefits. Why it hasn't been changed yet is beyond me. As Verain pointed out a little while ago, it cannot be a balancing issue. Redirect+Versatility proves that it doesn't break the game.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, it's kinda ironic that they left CP's as they were while removing the Deadly Poison stacking mechanic. They both worked they same way, in essence.
- DP stacks served the purpose of reducing damage every time we switched targets. I.e. We needed time to reach our original dps-potential.
- Combo points work the same way now. They reset every time we switch targets, resulting in a ramp-up reset.

Why was one cut and one left in?

[Verain]

They like the flavor of combo points. Deadly poison was just a stupid side effect. Originally, deadly poison was like 5% of rogue damage- a nice little boost in single target only. Once they made it real, they had to keep compensating, and finally they fixed it with the one stack.

---------- Post added 2012-10-02 at 10:04 PM ----------

Additionally, I'll add that whatever flavor is gained by the combo points is maybe not worth the hassle. They did shift damage to finishers for us, so having five CPs actually does something now.

[Deleted]

They like the flavor of combo points. Deadly poison was just a stupid side effect. Originally, deadly poison was like 5% of rogue damage- a nice little boost in single target only. Once they made it real, they had to keep compensating, and finally they fixed it with the one stack.

---------- Post added 2012-10-02 at 10:04 PM ----------

Additionally, I'll add that whatever flavor is gained by the combo points is maybe not worth the hassle. They did shift damage to finishers for us, so having five CPs actually does something now.

Yeah, I read the "flavor" response as well, and I don't buy into it. Flavor is good if it leaves a good taste in your mouth, not if it's a sour pill to swallow.
They did do a great job by making finishers worth while, but as I argued in my previous post, by doing this they also made target switches of any kind a huge liability and a noticeable dps-loss, thereby making them even LESS desirable than they were in Cata.