Heroic Dungeons too easy

[Elim Garak]

But dude the heroic gear doesn't get you prepped for lfr or not in any remotely reasonable time frame. LFR requires you to have 463 . Meaning every piece has to be from heroic gear. Currently you can use direbrew but long term not an option. The JP gear is less than that. It makes no sense. It doesn't build you up to LFR. JP goes nowhere for you. It's madness.

It does build you up for LFR. You just forgot the VP and crafted gear. A couple of 470-486 ilvl pieces here and there with the rest of 463 ilvl will build you up to i463.

[Deleted]

they are perfectly fine, and do the job they are meant to IE gear people up ready for raiding.
Finding them easy ? GO play in challenge modes or raid. Stop bitching and moaning that somthing is easy. Easy makes it fast. And time my time is precious. 15-20 mins in a dungeon in blue gear is perfectly acceptable. I have been in dungeons where it would take hours (literally) to clear out due to the size (original Dire maul in vanilla) or because people didnt know WTF to do, (new Deadmines in Cata).

I think they hit the nail on the head with these dungeons, at current gear levels they provide a quick relatively painless experience.

[Glorious Leader]

A lot of guilds have been doing the new heroics without heals to gear quicker. If that's not too easy, I don't know what is.

I suppose we have challenge modes and heroic raids, though. I guess the difficulty for heroic 5mans doesn't matter too much after the first week.

Dude they'll die the healers will for something stupid, usually standing in shit onthe weaponmaster assholes.. I'll chain enough cooldowns. Bosses still die. I've been tanking in 378 shoulders. The ones from end of time dungeon cata stuff. It's easy and it's unrewarding on every level.

[UunaPriest]

Who cares how easy they are?
Challenge modes gogo.

[ddk]

Given that you have to do heroic dungeons over, and over, and over again in order to get raid-ready, I don't mind them being easy enough to face-roll through at a good pace. In TBC and Wrath I was SO friggin sick of doing heroics it just wasn't funny. The fact that I could essentially skip most heroics on alts in Cata and just do a few HoT's before leap-frogging into LFR was a godsend.

I don't mind having to do the grind on a main, but on alts I just want the ezy-mode. This is why reputation should also be account-wide.

[Glorious Leader]

It does build you up for LFR. You just forgot the VP and crafted gear. A couple of 470-486 ilvl pieces here and there with the rest of 463 ilvl will build you up to i463.

That's the point though. JP by itself can't build you up for it. It is mathematically incapable of doing it. Your two choices outside of being subject to RNG gods and assohles ninjaing shit from you are VP and crafted gear. Farm or run Dailies. Not dungeon for justice points and use them AS ITS BEEN FOR LIKE 6 YEARS. Like it's okay if they add the dailies back because people want to do them but why rob the reward from justice. I mean dude it wasn't even always 358, IT WAS A LOWER FUCKING ITEM LEVEL THAN THAT. It was 350 ffs and it only got boosted because PVP gear was higher. Much Higher. And people were gearing out with pvp gear. They nerfed PVP gear and didn't fix the problem with justice gear. So many knee jerk reactionary fixes. CALM DOWN BLIZZARD. Think. OPTIONS.... It's regressive it effectively took away an option for me, one that I think you can wager pretty much everybody did. I guess hardcore pvpers didn't maybe? I used to farm pvp gear like that but then I found AV premades gave that an arrow to the knee. [COLOR="red" ]

---------- Post added 2012-10-04 at 09:56 PM ----------

[/COLOR]

This is why reputation should also be account-wide.

That's another one a total fucking no brainer. They 've done so much shit right. I was VEHEMENTLY against the fucking talent trees but I've grown to not despise them as much. They kinda fade into the background on my warrior (although Storm Bolt is tempting me for pvp but over AVATAR DAMNIT... that is a tough one) but on my hunter I LIKE to change them up. I like what they did with the hunter, mostly cause I pvp on him but I like it. Alot actually. But dude they've made some dumb ass regressive moves this fucking expansion and I don't get why....

[Repefe]

For some people Cata was Fiasco , some people liked it. But as it was too difficult for some people I would not like to have that. But Tank not taking any damage is unacceptable. It is unfair for 2 roles and fun for 1 role. Tank does not have to use any of his survivability cooldowns. Instead his/her main job is to DPS because the threat is so easy to get these days. Also healer feeling him-/herself useless because people don't take damage is not fun either. For DPS things being too easy is not a problem. Actually AoE dpsing is pretty fun.

Yeah, but then again ppl still don't want to play the fun tank role in groups. I remember spamming 5 mans in WotLK with bear one after another just pew pew for fun. I mean once you stop taking damage you basically play as a dps with tank and yes aoe dpsing is pretty fun The healer situation sucks ... kind of, since forever. Hybrids being more capable healers makes this issue smaller than before but still.

[Playintrafic]

They aren't too easy thats for damn sure. Still have idiots in them ignoring mechanics and pulling 8k dps on boss fights.

Also, TBC heroics harder than cata heroics LAWL! TBC Had some hard heroics yes, but that was mostly due to trash. It could often times be decimated with a pally tank, druid or shaman healer, and 2-3 cc. Especially if you had a priest for some of the mobs that could you awesome buffs.

[Glorious Leader]

The only boss I can say has wiped a group has been that dude in SM. BLADES OF LIGHT. harlan. Just it basically kills you if you fuck it up. Nothing else does that or at least very little. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many fights we totally fucked up and still killed it. Dude I don't bother to ask for advice or read the dungeon guide and im tanking this shit in ilvl 378 shoulders. I swear to god I can't believe I'm about to say this but it's easier then wotlk. The ilvl requirement says 458 but thinking is clearly not a requirement. Man when you give Blizzard a ball they run with it. They heard you guys loud and clear dawg. They got the hint.

What I really want to know is. Theirs no "normal" versions for alot of these dungeons outside of the ones you run while your lvling (4 of them) so why the fuck did they keep the name heroic? DUIDE LOL OMG. They got rid of normals more or less, nerfed heroics to the ground and gave you challenge mode. In this paradigm. heroics are normals. challenge mode is heroic. Thhey literally just shuffled names around.

[Elrandir]

I'm just glad that like in wrath I can run dungeons endlessly with my tons of alts without having to worry about some cheap mechanic wiping the group over and over again. Hated cataclysm heroics very much, even using robbossmods showing tactics before boss there were just too many wipes cause lots of pugs were too unskilled for this level of difficulty. Now the heroics are so much fun, really cool mechanics and pugs can get through em, hooray! LOL at SM tornado btw, that was hilarious dying the first time ;p.

[Matson]

Yeah, but then again ppl still don't want to play the fun tank role in groups. I remember spamming 5 mans in WotLK with bear one after another just pew pew for fun. I mean once you stop taking damage you basically play as a dps with tank and yes aoe dpsing is pretty fun The healer situation sucks ... kind of, since forever. Hybrids being more capable healers makes this issue smaller than before but still.

When I play tank, I love to time my defesive CDs and have ohh shit moments when I have to quickly taunt a mob before he touches anyone else. And it pretty much frustrates me that if I wan't to do this, people think I want challenge. No this is what tanks do, and I just want to fulfill my role.

Another and probably even more important reason is gearing. I LOVE to gear and upgrade my character. I like having to think what is the best way to upgrade my character. Which parts to get, how to gem and what enchants to get. From part to part I can feel my character getting slightly stronger in the dungeons. All of this loses its value when things are too easy. It turns into : "lol why do I bother. Either way I go, I take no damage anyway. Why am I gearing at all actually? " I don't find it fun to just increase the numbers of my stats without reason. Ohh and I don't raid :/

[Lassira]

Wouldn't be surprised if you could do them with 5 dps if you bring a hybrid or two.
Not like you'd want to with current state of tank DPS.

[Wubz]

The game has shifted completely to satisfy those "I only have 1 hr to play after work" gamers and in general just casual gamers.
Without seeming like an ass, if you think any different...you are the problem with this game, plain and simple.

WoW is now comparable to most single player games. There is no sense of community whatsoever and the game caters to those who want pure instant gratification.

The most successful expansion (TBC) was that way for a reason, players had something to aspire to and work towards.

For those saying "oh if you want hard content do challenge modes", please stop...it is a lazy design decision, plain and simple.
Blizzard is purely recycling the same content with varying damage increases and expects players not to get burnt out, what a joke.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE in catering to those to casuals, no where to go but down.
Content in TBC so satisfying because players of every demographic could ENJOY the game, without having to experience end game.

Those arguing "I pay for this game and should be able to see end game raids"...like mentioned previously, yes you should...have the CHANCE to experience them.

This game has gone to completely catering to those iPhone gamers that are only interested in instant gratification.
Let me tell you something, without any sort of "work"...there is ultimately no reward.

It annoys me that I was stupid enough to believe Blizzard would change their design philosophy at any point past early Wotlk. I feel like a complete moron for supporting this abomination longer than I should have. It annoys me that I couldn't see that after the original WoW devs left, the game has become nothing more than revenue for Blizzard.

Yes, this is my opinion. And it is the correct one.

[Glorious Leader]

The game has shifted completely to satisfy those "I only have 1 hr to play after work" gamers and in general just casual gamers.
Without seeming like an ass, if you think any different...you are the problem with this game, plain and simple.

It hasn't though. It went with one of the least casual, asanine, time sinking and regressive methods to gate gear. DAILIES TIED TO REP. It's a massive boner for casuals because it basically means if you want the vendor point gear YOUR TIME IS TIED UP RUNNING DAILIES. The dungeons are easy is good for casuals yes but they cock blocked casuals so hard. I don't know man. It feels like Diablo. Their trying to get everybody in the pool...

[Wubz]

It hasn't though. It went with one of the least casual, asanine, time sinking and regressive methods to gate gear. DAILIES TIED TO REP. It's a massive boner for casuals because it basically means if you want the vendor point gear YOUR TIME IS TIED UP RUNNING DAILIES. The dungeons are easy is good for casuals yes but they cock blocked casuals so hard. I don't know man. It feels like Diablo. Their trying to get everybody in the pool...

Yes, I can agree with you there.

But this isn't a good thing at all. These are TEDIOUS time sinks for EVERYONE.

This is blatantly obvious in questing in MoP. Quests are not difficult in the slightest...there are just hundreds of them and they are now a chore to do, instead of a challenge. Admittedly quests shouldn't be incredibly challenging, but I shouldn't have to beat my head against my desk to gain one level.

Difficult in this game is being mistaken by Blizzard.
Their solution is purely implementing tedious, long winded grinds instead of making content actually challenging. The time sink doesn't come from more challenging encounters, but simply "more stuff to kill".

[Matson]

The game has shifted completely to satisfy those "I only have 1 hr to play after work" gamers and in general just casual gamers.
Without seeming like an ass, if you think any different...you are the problem with this game, plain and simple.

WoW is now comparable to most single player games. There is no sense of community whatsoever and the game caters to those who want pure instant gratification.

The most successful expansion (TBC) was that way for a reason, players had something to aspire to and work towards.

For those saying "oh if you want hard content do challenge modes", please stop...it is a lazy design decision, plain and simple.
Blizzard is purely recycling the same content with varying damage increases and expects players not to get burnt out, what a joke.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE in catering to those to casuals, no where to go but down.
Content in TBC so satisfying because players of every demographic could ENJOY the game, without having to experience end game.

Those arguing "I pay for this game and should be able to see end game raids"...like mentioned previously, yes you should...have the CHANCE to experience them.

This game has gone to completely catering to those iPhone gamers that are only interested in instant gratification.
Let me tell you something, without any sort of "work"...there is ultimately no reward.

It annoys me that I was stupid enough to believe Blizzard would change their design philosophy at any point past early Wotlk. I feel like a complete moron for supporting this abomination longer than I should have. It annoys me that I couldn't see that after the original WoW devs left, the game has become nothing more than revenue for Blizzard.

Yes, this is my opinion. And it is the correct one.

Agreeing with you partly but there is something I have to add. Not every casual player wants to have things easy. For me BC seemed like a heaven for a casual player who wants to have acceptable difficulty and does not have much time. You didn't have to be part of a guid to do all the funny things. As soon as you dinged 70 you had loads of challenging content to do (5 mans). And if you were lucky enough you found friends from the PuGs who asked every now and then you if you wanted to join a raid. You didn't need to get too much into this game.

[Paulosio]

Congratulations, but what are you going to do tomorrow? Or 2 months from now? The problem with easy content is that players eat it up almost instantly, and then unsub. I don't know why Blizzard promotes such a system that hurts their sub numbers.

The game has a bit more depth than a few heroic dungeons luckily. I think blizzard know better than the rest of us what works and what doesn't.

[Wubz]

Agreeing with you partly but there is something I have to add. Not every casual player wants to have things easy. For me BC seemed like a heaven for a casual player who wants to have acceptable difficulty and don't have much time. You didn't have to be part of a guid to do all the funny things. As soon as you dinged 70 you had loads of challenging content to do (5 mans). And if you were lucky enough you found friends from the PuGs who asked every now and then you if you wanted to join a raid. You didn't need to get too much into this game.

Yeah, you phrased it a little better than me. Cheers.

The problem is that casuals don't know what they want and are the "vocal majority". Only when content because too difficult/easy will they raise their concerns and this ultimately results in design decisions that constantly vary.

---------- Post added 2012-10-04 at 10:55 PM ----------

The game has a bit more depth than a few heroic dungeons luckily. I think blizzard know better than the rest of us what works and what doesn't.

Yeah Blizzard sure knows what works.

That's why they have been losing subs consistently since mid Wotlk and only gain subs prior to an expansion release...

Clearly they've got it down.

[Glorious Leader]

Yes, I can agree with you there.

But this isn't a good thing at all. These are TEDIOUS time sinks for EVERYONE.

This is blatantly obvious in questing in MoP. Quests are not difficult in the slightest...there are just hundreds of them and they are now a chore to do, instead of a challenge. Admittedly quests shouldn't be incredibly challenging, but I shouldn't have to beat my head against my desk to gain one level.

Difficult in this game is being mistaken by Blizzard.
Their solution is purely implementing tedious, long winded grinds instead of making content actually challenging. The time sink doesn't come from more challenging encounters, but simply "more stuff to kill".

I agree it's tedious and it's extremely unfriendly to casuals. I agree about difficulty as well though. Easy is okay. People liked easy in wotlk because easy gave them gear so they still had a rewarding experience. Hard is good to especially if the gear is there. Hard can be rewarding in alot of ways and IMO it's the best way to make these dungeons. Nothing is as bad as easy heroics with little no reward. It is simply unfufilling

[Lassira]

So what do casuals do when they can clear all the content? Do they just unsub like when WoW lost all those subs in 4.3?

Let's be honest, casuals don't care about things like heroic modes or challenge mode dungeons, they just want the gear.