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  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelsino View Post
    I think they fit fine into WoW... in the same way the Tuskarr fit. Pandaren have absolutely no business dicking around in the Alliance/Horde with their culture, general outlook and attitude imo, especially with a brimming war going on.

    Can't help but feel they'd have made a better NPC faction.
    You don't understand the wanderlust of the Pandaren from the Wandering Isle then. They are very different from the ones on Pandaria.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by AbalDarkwind View Post
    Where were the Night Elves, Tauren, and Draenei during these events?



    These were times of Alliance and Horde cooperation.



    By this logic, why didn't Deathwing obliterate the Eastern Kingdoms or Kalimdor?

    To counter these, where were the members of the Alliance and Horde during the Pandaren war with the Mogu and Zandalari? They were in isolation, much like the Far East was in isolation from Europe during the Classical and Middle Ages.
    He obviously doesn't understand that every race has a role to play.

    If the Night Elves were defeated during the first invasion = Burning Legion wins.

    If the Horde defeated the Humans during the First War = Burning Legion wins.

    If the Pandaren do not show that Alliance and Horde need to have peace between each other = Burning Legion Wins.

  3. #223
    Like I said, I think Pandaren are a wonderful race, but I haven't played Warcraft for the past 16 years to culminate my journey alongside its heroes with a huge kum-ba-ya sing-a-long around a campfire while I "discover myself" and "why I fight".

    I am a member of the Alliance and I have VENGEANCE to exact upon my enemies, be them demons or greenskins. Thrall tried to make peace, tough luck bro, it didn't work out. Now that Garrosh did what he did there's no going back. He's changed things, and Jaina will rain an unholy storm of ass-kicking upon the Horde for what they did to Theramore.

    An entire city slaughtered and I'm supposed to care about pandaren mystical evil force problems?
    Last edited by ragnarokvr1; 2012-10-06 at 04:00 PM.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarokvr1 View Post
    Like I said, I think Pandaren are a wonderful race, but I haven't played Warcraft for the past 16 years to culminate my journey alongside its heroes with a huge kum-ba-ya sing-a-long around a campfire while I "discover myself" and "why I fight".
    I've been here 16 years, too, and yet, I disagree. I think learning "Why we fight" is an excellent lesson to learn considering the Burning Legion are getting ready for Round 4, according to Wrathion.

    I am a member of the Alliance and I have VENGEANCE to exact upon my enemies, be them demons or greenskins. Thrall tried to make peace, tough luck bro, it didn't work out. Now that Garrosh did what he did there's no going back. He's changed things, and Jaina will rain an unholy storm of ass-kicking upon the Horde for what they did to Theramore.
    Without the allegiance of the Horde, you will fail in your future wars against the Legion and the Old Gods. Your hatred of the Horde has blinded you to the bigger picture. This was the entire theme of Warcraft III, and it seems, people like you need to be reminded of that lesson. Xilurm seems to understand this, I seem to understand this, quite a few people in this thread seem to understand this. Why don't you understand this?
    Last edited by AbalDarkwind; 2012-10-06 at 04:03 PM.
    Professor of History at Dalaran University

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarokvr1 View Post
    Like I said, I think Pandaren are a wonderful race, but I haven't played Warcraft for the past 16 years to culminate my journey alongside its heroes with a huge kum-ba-ya sing-a-long around a campfire while I "discover myself" and "why I fight".

    I am a member of the Alliance and I have VENGEANCE to exact upon my enemies, be them demons or greenskins. Thrall tried to make peace, tough luck bro, it didn't work out. Now that Garrosh did what he did there's no going back. He's changed things, and Jaina will rain an unholy storm of ass-kicking upon the Horde for what they did to Theramore.

    An entire city slaughtered and I'm supposed to care about pandaren mystical evil force problems?
    Go with the rest of the Alliance and the Horde then. I'll fight on the front lines against the Old Gods and the Burning Legion. Too bad we will all fail cause of people like You, Jaina and Garrosh.

  6. #226
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
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    Honestly im suprised at how well they fit in the lore, their lore is very well written, at first i was very skeptical about the race but they've grown on me now.

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    You are entitled to your opinion, but it is just that your opinion and in the grand scheme of things it is absolutely meaningless.
    Then why did you bother to post?

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarokvr1 View Post
    Jaina will rain an unholy storm of ass-kicking upon the Horde for what they did to Theramore.
    [Spoilers!] Jaina still wants peace, she just can't see peace happening with garrosh as leader of the horde, she was origananlly going to destroy org but kalecgos stopped her from doing that now she is alot calmer, but still commited to removing garrosh from power rarther than mass-genoicde.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by AbalDarkwind View Post
    Without the allegiance of the Horde, you will fail in your future wars against the Legion and the Old Gods. Your hatred of the Horde has blinded you to the bigger picture. This was the entire theme of Warcraft III, and it seems, people like you need to be reminded of that lesson. Xilurm seems to understand this, I seem to understand this, quite a few people in this thread seem to understand this. Why don't you understand this?
    Well the perhaps Medivh was WRONG, and the world, this world, still needs Guardians, and always will. Perhaps it is time for the council of Tirisfal to be re-created and perhaps it was a wrong move for the Aspects to give away their immortality.

    Arthas was not defeated by Azeroth's heroes, it was defeated by the Ashbeinger, a Naaru within a blade. Azeroth's heroes were on the verge of becoming the Lich King's most powerful lieutenants.

    Deathwing was not defeated by Azeroth's heroes, it was defeated by the ultimate powers of the Aspects.

    Yogg'Saron was defeated with the help of his four Guardians, invested with titan powers.

    Perhaps all this happy happy tree shit about the future resting in mortal hands is just happy happy tree shit.

    Archimonde was defeated by the Night Elves also sacrificing their immortality.

    So far, humanity 0, otherwordly powers 4.


    ....and leave the pandarens, to their pandaren'ing:

    Last edited by ragnarokvr1; 2012-10-06 at 04:16 PM.

  10. #230
    The Patient Mr Gnomage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarokvr1 View Post
    If Blizzard had wanted to make agame apart, or integrate them into Titan, I would have had no problem with the existence of pandaren and their lore.

    But their endless stream of peaceful, happy drinking Starfleet explorers atmosphere is totally out of Warcraft context.

    I come back every expansion to hate something and to WAR, not to solve problems about evil spirits and find reasons about what is worth fighting for.

    I figh for the hate I feel for my ravaged lands and my murdered heroes, I fight for the lust of revenge and the desire to shed the blood of my enemies until the rivers run red with it, I fight in the name of the Light and with the forces of the elements to resolve unquenchable blood feuds with this alliance that is the Horde.

    I fight for Jaina Proudmoore and Theramore, I fight for Vrynn and his past suffering, I fight for Lothar, for Alleria, for Dannath, for Uther.

    Pandaren, you're a wonderful and fresh race, but this conflict is beyond you, and you simply do not share the fury of our races nor will you ever understand it.

    You will never understand the joy I feel when I slash a blood elf in two or cleave an orc's head off his shoulders. That is the real war.

    Go back to your Mists and take care of your evil spirits problems, the rest of the world is at war with its own past, and will be forevermore.

    Garrosh has seen to that.
    Totally right. Let's roll the entire game back and redo the xpac. Should only be about another.... 14 months of dragon soul and we'll have your new xpac with a new dragon to be mad at. Thanks for the suggestion!

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarokvr1 View Post
    perhaps it was a wrong move for the Aspects to give away their immortality.

    it was defeated by the Ashbeinger, a Naaru within a blade.

    it was defeated by the ultimate powers of the Aspects.

    Yogg'Saron was defeated with the help of his four Guardians, invested with titan powers.

    They were made for that exact purpose.

    It was weilded by a human, Tirion who also purified it. The crystal with which the Ashbringer was made being a Naaru is just a rumor.

    It was retrieved by us though.

    The ones which we saved.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarokvr1 View Post
    Well the perhaps Medivh was WRONG, and the world, this world, still needs Guardians, and always will. Perhaps it is time for the council of Tirisfal to be re-created and perhaps it was a wrong move for the Aspects to give away their immortality.
    No, Medivh was right. We, the players, are the guardians and stewards of Azeroth now. We are the ones who have been on the front lines since WoW began.

    Arthas was not defeated by Azeroth's heroes, it was defeated by the Ashbeinger, a Naaru within a blade. Azeroth's heroes were on the verge of becoming the Lich King's most powerful lieutenants.
    If you recall, Tirion was a popsicle for most of that fight. The only thing he and the Ashbringer did was to destroy Frostmourne. We, the players, held Arthas off for most of that fight, and we were the ones to land the killing blow.

    Deathwing was not defeated by Azeroth's heroes, it was defeated by the ultimate powers of the Aspects.
    Without us, Thrall never would have gotten a clean shot. Without us, the Aspects would have been killed by Ultraxion while they worked their ritual. Without us to distract Deathwing, the Aspects and Thrall would have been destroyed by the second Cataclysm.

    Yogg'Saron was defeated with the help of his four Guardians, invested with titan powers.
    Without us, those four Watchers would have remained under Yogg-Saron's influence. Without us to fight him, the Watchers would have been re-enslaved during that fight.

    Archimonde was defeated by the Night Elves also sacrificing their immortality.
    And Malfurion would never have had the chance if the Alliance and Horde hadn't stalled the Legion's advance up the summit of Mount Hyjal.

    Perhaps all this happy happy tree shit about the future resting in mortal hands is just happy happy tree shit.
    Or perhaps you willfully ignore the most important details of all of those encounters in order to make your skewed point.
    Professor of History at Dalaran University

  13. #233
    No, without these godly powers we as mortals would never have been able to finish the fight. We may be Gandalf's hobbits but Minas Tirith was saved by an army of undead, the Balrog was pushed back by magic and the Ring was destroyed by mortals even though it was the Ring's otherwordly powers which at times saved these mortals from failing their mission.

    We are glorified vessels, nothing more. We are not capable of finishing a fight to save our lives, that is the job of gods and demigods. So let us war then.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarokvr1 View Post
    No, without these godly powers we as mortals would never have been able to finish the fight. We may be Gandalf's hobbits but Minas Tirith was saved by an army of undead, the Balrog was pushed back by magic and the Ring was destroyed by mortals even though it was the Ring's otherwordly powers which at times saved these mortals from failing their mission.
    It works both ways which seems to be the point you are ignoring. Without us, those "gods and demigods" would have lost. To use an NPC example, Thrall is a mortal, and without him, no one would have been able to wield the Dragon Soul. Tirion was also a mortal, and without him, no one could have wielded a purified Ashbringer. And now, as we square off against our own negative emotions made manifest through the Sha, Wrathion will equip us with Legendary weapons of our own.

    As for your Lord of the Rings example, the final book is all about how necessary it is for Men to unite under the King in order to defeat Sauron. And, more importantly, without Frodo, the Ring would never have been destroyed. You are glorifying one side of the coin without acknowledging the importance of the other side.
    Professor of History at Dalaran University

  15. #235
    The Hive Mind Demetrion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarokvr1 View Post
    No, without these godly powers we as mortals would never have been able to finish the fight. We may be Gandalf's hobbits but Minas Tirith was saved by an army of undead, the Balrog was pushed back by magic and the Ring was destroyed by mortals even though it was the Ring's otherwordly powers which at times saved these mortals from failing their mission.

    We are glorified vessels, nothing more. We are not capable of finishing a fight to save our lives, that is the job of gods and demigods. So let us war then.
    Neither are gods and demigods capable of finishing fights to save their lives.

    Your logic is invalid.

  16. #236
    Stood in the Fire Masser's Avatar
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    The Pandaren fit perfectly into World of Warcraft.

  17. #237
    op clearly hasnt actually quested through pandaria. the pandaren arent against war there against war without purpose there against hatred and violence they will fight but not for those reasons.

    the horde and alliance are fighting this war over resources they want to go into pandaria and tear it to pieces that is made evident in garoshes orders. in 5.1 the alliance and horde warships will show up on the beaches of pandaria and jade forest will literally get destroyed in the battle.

    varian will be give the high trials by the leader of each race of the alliance and they will name him their king. similar to the trials of Heracles. garrosh in order to try and turn the tides of war will do unspeakable things that makes even the horde turn against them.

    at the end of mists varian will lead an army of alliance soldiers and horde rebels and dethrone garrosh then if things go out as wrathion keeps hinting the burning legion or some other dark force will attack us and -hopefully- illidan comes back along with turalyon and alleria and we stand united against the legion @_@
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

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  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by AbalDarkwind View Post
    If you recall, Tirion was a popsicle for most of that fight. The only thing he and the Ashbringer did was to destroy Frostmourne. We, the players, held Arthas off for most of that fight, and we were the ones to land the killing blow.
    if i remember right the fight went like this = we fight... we die... tirion resurrects us and then holds LK in place so we can hit him like pinjata

  19. #239
    With would Illidan stand with us, he's been banished by his brother and forsaken by the people he's saved, labeled as a traitor of his race simply because he used demonic powers to defeat demons.

    He's a martyr.

    If anything Maiev might make a reapearance, although I never truly understood where she gets her powers from to challenge Illidan so boldly at all times. Perhaps they'll give us a Warden class with increased lore surrounding it, after all they made an appearance in Cataclysm.

    Although mages would cry havok to another class having Blink.

  20. #240
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanaubia View Post
    if i remember right the fight went like this = we fight... we die... tirion resurrects us and then holds LK in place so we can hit him like pinjata
    actually, the ghost of arthas' farther resurrects us, and the ghosts trapped within the blade hold arthas in place.

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