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  1. #161
    Simple Answer: Ghost Crawler switch mains from a mage to a tank... hahaha, I'm just kidding... or am I? O.o

  2. #162
    I think it's funny things like "this" are considered issues by some.

    Your DPS and/or how good you are as a DPS is in no way related to how much damage your tank does. The fact you want tanks to hit less is just your pride and e-peen being hurt because you want to be number one and you can't, which is childish. Quality of life has been improved in both dungeons and raids since the vengeance change. Aside from people with e-peen issues, things have been better overall with the vengeance change.
    I like ponies and I really don't care what you have to say about that.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    It has to do with holy power generation and damage smoothing, if you're interested go to sacredduty.net and check out Theck's work there.
    That's what I'm saying though. I didn't know how HP generation was in terms of say 1HP = 20 rage therefore having 3HP = 60 rage (shield block) but I'm definitely still able to use shield block or 60 rage shield barrier quite frequently... at least frequently enough for my healers to say that going hit/exp capped didn't feel any different in terms of healing needed.
    Last edited by alturic; 2012-10-09 at 04:32 AM.

  4. #164
    I dont understand what is so hard to make a vengeance cap that scales with the tank's iLvl...
    Quote Originally Posted by Elementium
    Cause here on the forums If a troll trolls a troll the troll trolling the troll still gets banned for trolling.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Evory View Post
    Except standing in fire won't increase your vengeance stack only getting hit smack in the face by the boss will.

    But outside the encounters with special tanking mechanics or just bosses that hits like a truck, our dps classes are already doing more dps than tanks are, i fail to see the problem.
    Standing in a the fire just means getting hit by things you'd normally try and avoid all together. If its just "encounters with special tanking mechanics" why are tanks all in the top 10 or number 1 in of every fight in Mogu'shan Vaults on wol 25m?

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    All these people talking about how tanks need high DPS to have fun fucking disgust me. Go play a fucking DPS spec.
    I had fun before I kicked your ass at meters. Its cool now that I do, it won't last. Get gear and l2p. Tank damage wont scale with gear nearly as much. We could go back to the old days where you can only do as dps as my threat will allow. But those days are behind us, and stupid dps are the reason.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 04:48 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Constraint View Post
    [/COLOR]

    They do..? Since when? They didn't in Vanilla. They didn't in BC. They didn't in WotLK. They didn't in Cata. Please elaborate.
    Yes they did, yes they did, yes they did, yes they did.

    Tank DPS doesnt scale with gear nearly as well as DPS dps. DPS Specs get MUCH more damage with better gear. Tanks a little more damage with better gear. They DPS players' damage scales much better with gear.

    DPS player gets new gear his dps goes from 1.5 to 2.0

    Tank gets new gear his dps goes from 1.7 to 1.8 and his defense goes from 1.7 to 2.0. Numbers have been simplified.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 04:49 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    Its also in the game to carry bad tanks who couldn't keep aggro before it existed.
    You mean to carry bad DPS would didn't understand how aggro worked, pulled too much threat on a target, and then died and then they bitched about. Never bothering to download omen threat meter.
    []http://sig.lanjelin.com/img/tanro.png[/]

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by (Insert Name Here) View Post
    I dont understand what is so hard to make a vengeance cap that scales with the tank's iLvl...
    because why cap tank dps? If your a dps just compare yourself with other dps'ers. I wonder if people would be screaming nerf if a disc priest was able to do well on dps while healing....
    ...Made it through 9 years of wow...

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by momirmaster View Post
    its not a problem. Its the bad players who are complaining cause "they" cannot outdps the tank. I fully expect when we start raiding next week all the DPS in my raid will out dps me and I had world #1 ultraxion 10 heroic World #2 morchok 10 heroic and World #5 Warlord 10 heroic Prot Paladin back at 15% before we stopped farming mounts for the tier.
    So each of those guilds with rankings on wol is full of bads. Yeah sounds quite legit.


    Quote Originally Posted by pimpeddakota View Post
    because why cap tank dps? If your a dps just compare yourself with other dps'ers. I wonder if people would be screaming nerf if a disc priest was able to do well on dps while healing....
    While you are at it change dps to heal as much as a full healer and be able to take damage like a tank.

  9. #169
    The Lightbringer Kouki's Avatar
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    Does anyone else think if the tank out dps you that your dps might be the problem?

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Kouki View Post
    Does anyone else think if the tank out dps you that your dps might be the problem?
    Yes, every dps on the earth is bad because tanks are topping world parses.

    Vengeance should now ramp up more quickly. Avoidance will now grant Vengeance based on the average damage of the avoided NPC auto-attack, instead of just refreshing existing Vengeance. This does not apply to enemy special attacks.
    The hell, does that mean tanks will have even more dps? And what does the avoidance change mean in reality?
    Last edited by Tobedeleted123; 2012-10-09 at 06:02 AM.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Why does another role doing high damage dimish your worth? Does it make your epeen shrivel?

    The biggest gripe amongst amongst tanks to the end of the last expansion was that they were just thick skinned idiots that got hit in the face so that the "important" people could do their jobs. Noone wanted to tank because of this, little fun, little reward and relatively high responsbility (compared to damage dealers). Now suddenly tanks are doing damage that matters, healing that matters and they can mitigate the damage they take in a way that matters. Tanking is suddenly a very fun and rewarding role. I hope that gear scaling makes damage dealers deal a higher percentage of damage but I hope that which tanks deal stays meaningful.
    I don't get why you are converting the conversation to that POV.

    If tanks did more healing than healers, then it would mean that healers are being ripped off of their role. If DD could tank any encounter, it would be the same. If tanks deal more damage than DD, then there again is a role stealing there.

    There are roles in this game for a reason, it feels weird and buggy atm.

  12. #172
    Bloodsail Admiral Omertocracy's Avatar
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    As a Blood DK, I agree that Tank DPS is retardiculous. Did Galleon tonight. I facetanked the main event, ended with 93k dps. Second on the list was another tank at 75k. The top DPS was in third, with 56k. Tank shouldn't be nearly double the DPS.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Jervaise View Post
    I don't get why you are converting the conversation to that POV.

    If tanks did more healing than healers, then it would mean that healers are being ripped off of their role. If DD could tank any encounter, it would be the same. If tanks deal more damage than DD, then there again is a role stealing there.

    There are roles in this game for a reason, it feels weird and buggy atm.
    Exactly, that's what I've been saying all along. You all haters should really think about it, it's not an epeen or ego issue. The whole thing just feels weird and the balance is "shaken".

  14. #174
    If you're not outdps'ing your tank, you are either doing something wrong, or it's a gimick fight. Not having bothered to gear up counts as doing something wrong. Move on.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Woceip View Post
    If you're not outdps'ing your tank, you are either doing something wrong, or it's a gimick fight. Not having bothered to gear up counts as doing something wrong. Move on.
    So how come tanks are dominating half of the 25 fights' parse rankings of the current content? Every DPS in the world is bad?

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Dasani View Post
    I think it's funny things like "this" are considered issues by some.

    Your DPS and/or how good you are as a DPS is in no way related to how much damage your tank does. The fact you want tanks to hit less is just your pride and e-peen being hurt because you want to be number one and you can't, which is childish. Quality of life has been improved in both dungeons and raids since the vengeance change. Aside from people with e-peen issues, things have been better overall with the vengeance change.
    If I had to guess, people are upset because roles are very specific in this game. The tank will be keeping the boss on them, the healer will heal people, and the dps will do the damage. Now that tanks are preforming both their role, and the dps role, it may not seem fair to dps, as if they're being cheated out of their role by something they can't control.

    I also wouldn't be surprised if it was a pride thing either. I play with some dps, that play dps for the sake of doing those crazy numbers, and ranking in the logs, who are now pretty unhappy all their work and dedication is being tossed aside by tanks matching, and sometimes surpassing them.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Sephrie View Post
    Yeah I understand that, but my point is, I am a dps. I am supposed to do tons of damage to the boss, be his nightmare. I am doing everything to make my numbers higher, spending dozens of hours perfecting my playstyle, using dps consumables and spending tons of gold on the best crafts, enchants, gems etc. And here comes some tank, who does nothing really special about his damage, has survivability gear/gems/enchants/consumables, doesn't have any complex rotation, doesn't have to min/max. And yet he does more damage than me. Plus he actually performs role which point of is keeping aggro and staying alive and has nothing to do with dealing big damage. It's quite frustrating and takes away fun of being a dps to be honest.
    Dont know what kind of tank you have or if you play old content, but I was competing with dps as a tank in all of cata aswell(in progress raids on new content before any nerfs). Also tanking isnt hard, atleast imo but it aint facerolling either if you want to perfrom max.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    That's what I'm saying though. I didn't know how HP generation was in terms of say 1HP = 20 rage therefore having 3HP = 60 rage (shield block) but I'm definitely still able to use shield block or 60 rage shield barrier quite frequently... at least frequently enough for my healers to say that going hit/exp capped didn't feel any different in terms of healing needed.
    The point is that we don't have a mechanic like revenge where dodge/parry give us any sort of HP generator. What we are trying to do is remove any possibility of being hit by 5 hits in a row with no mitigation, which would be a 100% spike.
    Warriors can't quite get there, from what i understand. But if I have full hit/expertise and am hitting SoTR every time it is up I will never take 5 hits in a row unmitigated, as a matter of fact, out of 10k events, it's only like .29% of 5 hit events that will be 4/5 unmitigated, with a little bit of haste on top of hit/exp hard cap I will be able to push that down to 3/5.
    It's not a matter of just how frequent you can use it, but being able to use it as much as possible. I will take more damage overall if I stack hit/exp/haste/master as opposed to dodge/parry, but the damage will be smoother, less OH SHIT TANK'S GOING DOWN and more, ok, heal, heal, heal, heal, heal, greater heal, heal, heal...which saves mana and allows my healers to concentrate on the raid.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 12:10 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sephrie View Post
    So how come tanks are dominating half of the 25 fights' parse rankings of the current content? Every DPS in the world is bad?
    Because the dps haven't gotten gear yet, wait a few weeks.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by vaticon View Post
    Dont know what kind of tank you have or if you play old content, but I was competing with dps as a tank in all of cata aswell(in progress raids on new content before any nerfs). Also tanking isnt hard, atleast imo but it aint facerolling either if you want to perfrom max.
    In all of cata? Tell me which encounter that would be besides some gimmicky stuff like Magmaw adds, Halfus AE, Alysrazor buff and Spine blood.
    I'm genuinely curious.

  20. #180
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Varyk View Post
    Feng has a mechanic where tanks get absurd amounts of extra damage (Reversal, I believe)....obviously the reason for the logs.

    I don't recall exactly what goes on in the other 2 fights as I completed them months ago in beta, but I'd imagine it's something similar. calm down.
    No, it's not. It's the fact tanks get absurd amounts of attack power. Only Feng has a valid excuse for having such high DPS.

    I think it's bad that enrage timers will be built around tanks doing very competitive dps, as it forces them to give up survivability for dps in some cases.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 03:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticon View Post
    Dont know what kind of tank you have or if you play old content, but I was competing with dps as a tank in all of cata aswell(in progress raids on new content before any nerfs). Also tanking isnt hard, atleast imo but it aint facerolling either if you want to perfrom max.
    You had horrific dps in the group if on any fight without gimmicks increasing tank's dps you were near your dpsers.

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