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  1. #641
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    An other guild killed the third boss in 10m !

    http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/us/...ting.tier14_10

  2. #642
    I am Murloc! Sting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liebchen View Post

    And its not like you need 25 really good players to have success in 25man Raids... most (Worldrank 10-400) 25man Guilds have their 3-4 baddies and 9-10 people who are just there to spam healing/dmg. I know a lot of 25 players and when i ask the honest ones what they think of the boss they just killed they will say "don't know i was just not standing in the fire and did DPS".
    What you need for a successful 25man Raid: 2 Good tanks, 2-3 good healers who coordinate the other healers and do special jobs in certain encounters, 7-8 good DDs who push the raid-DPS and do special jobs on certain bosses. So you need about 10 good players.
    Completely wrong, sorry. How are you even comparing world rank 10 with world rank 100-150+?
    "The honest ones", how do you even make that up? To push into new content with a good ranking requires a WHOLE raid to be very knowledgeable about the encounter and execute it perfectly.

  3. #643
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haizer View Post
    Especially considering right now 10m Gara'jal is bugged while 25man is not, that says 25m is more ironed out than 10m is.
    It's not bugged, it's just very very hard. Another 10 man guild have got it down now, I don't know why Paragon's kill somehow didn't 'count' to prove it was killable but hopefully Avast's will.

  4. #644
    Quote Originally Posted by maladicta View Post
    I don't know why Paragon's kill somehow didn't 'count' to prove it was killable but hopefully Avast's will.
    because they have done "impossible" things before (lk25hc 5%)

  5. #645
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    Quote Originally Posted by silmarilen View Post
    because they have done "impossible" things before (lk25hc 5%)
    Meh. Yeah, I get what you're saying, you're right. It irks me though that Paragon killed it and the kill was dismissed as either exploiting or somehow it 'didn't really happen and the fight's impossible'. :/

  6. #646
    Not gonna make new thread for this debate...

    Now 3 guilds are at 5/6 in 25 man bracket
    2. Blood Legion
    3. Method
    4. Vodka

    The question is whats your bet on world first 25 man?
    My bet on Blood Legion but I still have feeling about Method will grab the cup.
    Last edited by Keyur; 2012-10-12 at 11:24 AM.

  7. #647
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    Quote Originally Posted by silmarilen View Post
    except that they didnt get to choose which people they took in their 10 man (at least not out of their entire 25man roster) since a lot of the old team quit.
    Knowing Paragon players their current roster has only good (or the best you name it) players. The guild is a lot more competent now as their bad players left.

  8. #648
    Quote Originally Posted by SilentStocket View Post
    Knowing Paragon players their current roster has only good (or the best you name it) players. The guild is a lot more competent now as their bad players left.
    No, some of their good players left and they had to recruit other players and they realized it was not possible to be competitive in 25 man because recruiting was too hard.

    It's not like they kicked their 'bad' players and kept the good ones. But I guess you know because you are in Paragon?

  9. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyur View Post
    Not gonna make new thread for this debate...

    Now 3 guilds are at 5/6 in 25 man bracket
    2. Blood Legion
    3. Method
    4. Vodka

    The question is whats your bet on world first 25 man?
    My bet on Blood Legion but I still have feeling about Method will grab the cup.
    I don't know, but where there is competition there is excitement .
    The funny thing to look at wow progress, is that besides those 3 (and barely Envy), the 25 with the most "hits" in wowprogress is Nihilum.
    Can't even imagine how it would be if they could actually manage to be in top 20.
    They re managing though, 1/6 heroic is not bad for a couple of weeks old guild.

  10. #650
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    No, some of their good players left and they had to recruit other players and they realized it was not possible to be competitive in 25 man because recruiting was too hard.

    It's not like they kicked their 'bad' players and kept the good ones. But I guess you know because you are in Paragon?
    Reading comprehension

  11. #651
    Anyone else noticed how poorly these 'world first' guilds play? You could see Method's stream, they took like 15 hours to kill the 4th boss. Faster than most guilds. How is it possible to fail 15 hours straight with 25 dedicated people? The boss does the exact same thing over and over since it's all scripted. I don't get it.

  12. #652
    Quote Originally Posted by Farora View Post
    Anyone else noticed how poorly these 'world first' guilds play? You could see Method's stream, they took like 15 hours to kill the 4th boss. Faster than most guilds. How is it possible to fail 15 hours straight with 25 dedicated people? The boss does the exact same thing over and over since it's all scripted. I don't get it.
    Imagine playing a complicated piano piece without making a mistake, it's scripted, hell, the instructions are probably right in front of you. Sadly, human error has a way of getting the best of all of us.
    I am the lucid dream
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  13. #653
    Quote Originally Posted by Farora View Post
    Anyone else noticed how poorly these 'world first' guilds play? You could see Method's stream, they took like 15 hours to kill the 4th boss. Faster than most guilds. How is it possible to fail 15 hours straight with 25 dedicated people? The boss does the exact same thing over and over since it's all scripted. I don't get it.
    There are many many more factors than just "it's scripted" in play when doing an encounter. There ARE random factors in every encounter which makes every try different in some way, and may ultimately play in the eventual wipe of the raid. Most people who use the "scripted" argument rarely realizes this though.

  14. #654
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyur View Post
    Not gonna make new thread for this debate...

    Now 3 guilds are at 5/6 in 25 man bracket
    2. Blood Legion
    3. Method
    4. Vodka

    The question is whats your bet on world first 25 man?
    My bet on Blood Legion but I still have feeling about Method will grab the cup.
    I hope Method, because they were 2nd for like every raid instance to date and they deserve a World first kill

  15. #655
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskra View Post
    Most people who use the "scripted" argument rarely realizes this though.
    People who bring up the "scripted" nature of PvE are just demonstrating their own ignorance. Scripted opponents beat the world's best human players in chess and Starcraft (among others) with ease, and could easily destroy every human player in WoW PvP. Something being "scripted" says absolutely nothing of the challenge it poses to human players.

  16. #656
    Elemental Lord TJ's Avatar
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    Envy 5/6! hope they get first or second. Really impressed with ScrubBusters also.

  17. #657
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Envy 5/6! hope they get first or second. Really impressed with ScrubBusters also.
    The race is amazing!
    Currently 5 teams are at 5/6 (Blood Legion, Method, Vodka, Envy AND Why Me.
    The latest is a big surprise to me, since nobody was expecting them to be so high before the race is over
    Really some amazing performance by them!

  18. #658
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskra View Post
    There are many many more factors than just "it's scripted" in play when doing an encounter. There ARE random factors in every encounter which makes every try different in some way, and may ultimately play in the eventual wipe of the raid. Most people who use the "scripted" argument rarely realizes this though.
    Not to mention the fact that they are undergeared compared to the casual guilds who will have months to farm gear before going in to down the heroics.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-12 at 09:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubbl3 View Post
    I hope Method, because they were 2nd for like every raid instance to date and they deserve a World first kill
    Cough cough will still be 2nd. World first has been taken already.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-12 at 09:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Haizer View Post
    If you look at the facts your statement isn't so absolute:
    1. Raids are originally balanced around 25mans, then nerfed to make it viable for 10man. Generally making it easier overall(both heroic and 25m).
    2. 25 decent raiders are harder to find, and keeping the communication on a high level is also tough. Which is why 25m gets more then what 10m has, though getting more doesn't make it easier at all.
    3. 10 man is completely under-tuned this expansion. I've done both so far, and the mechanics were pretty much laughable when we switched. Ignoring mechanics just to heal through them isn't quite the right design.

    I digress, 10man and 25man are usually pretty equal and there isn't much difference in terms of difficulty. Neither is better than the other overall, and I wish they would settle on one raid size. That being said, Paragon will probably get world first with Blood Legion shortly behind if you count both. Considering the difficulty difference, BL will be considered the actual world first.
    Its really easy to figure out which is harder by using logic. If 10 man was so much easier then every world first kill would have been a 10 man. But not one has until paragon and they only did it because they are insanely good. Every other tier since they merged 25 and 10 man has had 25 mans in world first. You'd think that if 10 man was so much easier then at least one of those tiers would have a 10 man blow through the easy mode and beat everyone. Instead the 10 mans are hardly ever in the top 10
    Last edited by daftone; 2012-10-12 at 09:30 PM.

  19. #659
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by daftone View Post
    Cough cough will still be 2nd. World first has been taken already.
    There is 2 world firsts to be claimed from 2 different raid sizes.

  20. #660
    Quote Originally Posted by daftone View Post

    Its really easy to figure out which is harder by using logic. If 10 man was so much easier then every world first kill would have been a 10 man. But not one has until paragon and they only did it because they are insanely good. Every other tier since they merged 25 and 10 man has had 25 mans in world first. You'd think that if 10 man was so much easier then at least one of those tiers would have a 10 man blow through the easy mode and beat everyone. Instead the 10 mans are hardly ever in the top 10
    Paragon is only raiding 10-man because they couldn't field a 25-man roster they were happy with.

    I'm sure they would be raiding 25-man if they hadn't suffered those player losses.

    Paragon completely crushed their 10-man competition because they're bringing the type of hardcore preparation usually only seen in the 25-man race.

    I don't see how Paragon being so far ahead of Avast and Crimson Blade tells us anything about how they match up with BL, Method, etc.

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