So... I'll have to do these dailies *forever*?

[Rooflesstoofless]

I much preferred grinding dungeons for rep.

It gave me something to do with my guildies and we all kind of geared up together. Now its ninja-tagging-of-awesomeness every man for himself.

[Deleted]

Except that it's not just as good and again I'm compelled to continue doing the dungeon until I get it. The system to buy the gear is piss weak by comparison and for no good reason. It sticks out like a sore thumb because it a wholly regressive change. All of it is. Even the stupid change to daily dungeons where you now have to go back to doing 1 a day. It has nothing to do with people being out in the world although that may be why they have designed the system. I mean that's an extremely poor and uncreative way to go about it. dailies are piss poor at everything they do. They were never designed to have this much reward tied to them and they only do now because it's a prod to get people out into the world. Well that's shitty. It ruins my dungeon experience and it doesn't really accomplish what blizzard was after. People finish their dailies, ignore the world for the quest they need to do (they may as well be instanced at that point) and then had back to org.

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 08:13 AM ----------



Christ even hitting lfr level is a bitch now. JP gains are so fucking little in these dungeons. If you get lucky with a bunch of drops in the dungeons well congratulations. This is a complete 180 reversal on most decisions they've made in the history of warcraft and isn't in spirit with the "choice" that mists was supposed to offer us. People defending them... I don't know.. I just don't know..

If you feel that you must replace anything bellow 463, even though you have no intention of raiding later on, go for it... You have all the time in the world to get those items to drop since you don't need it for anything anyway.

"If you get lucky with a bunch of drops in the dungeons well congratulations. "
It's really not that lucky, since my entire guild got it with ease. Just keep on running the heroics you love so much.

[TheWerebison]

Essentially back to tiered raiding. Boy I hope those guilds who get burnt out raiders don't mind going back to farm old content to gear their replacements back up.

No, Atra, come on now, be fair. It's not like tiered raiding, it's like doing Firelands and using the Firelands gear to do Dragon Soul. Raid progression has been a staple of WoW for ages now. A raid comes out, then there's another raid that needs better gear, so you use the gear from the last raid.

edit: Besides, as I said earlier, we know that Blizzard will eventually make the old VP gear available for JP, to make it easier to get into the next tier of raiding.

[Deleted]

Essentially back to tiered raiding. Boy I hope those guilds who get burnt out raiders don't mind going back to farm old content to gear their replacements back up. They can always farm their sub par JP gear I guess. The non raiders well they can go fuck themselves.

Because the alternative of farming the same raid for months because people geared up so quickly that Blizzard couldn't keep up with the development of content is a much better system right? And don't come with "well they need to make more content faster!" It's not that simple nor something you want to rush if you want it of good quality!

[Glorious Leader]

If you feel that you must replace anything bellow 463, even though you have no intention of raiding later on, go for it... You have all the time in the world to get those items to drop since you don't need it for anything anyway.

"If you get lucky with a bunch of drops in the dungeons well congratulations. "
It's really not that lucky, since my entire guild got it with ease. Just keep on running the heroics you love so much.

It's really that lucky. that's why it's called RNG. It's totally fucking random and you get it by luck. Especially with their shitty fucking loot tables. I'm running em alright. And being a good little boy and doing my dailies. All because a handful of people couldn't swallow the fucking fact that people who didn't raid somehow still had gear. ABSURD... HOW DARE THEY HAVE GEAR?

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 08:21 AM ----------

Because the alternative of farming the same raid for months because people geared up so quickly that Blizzard couldn't keep up with the development of content is a much better system right? And don't come with "well they need to make more content faster!" It's not that simple nor something you want to rush if you want it of good quality!

Yes that system was better. Back stopping content this much isn't that different from 9 months without content. You have something to do but everything is a fucking wall. Trion and other companies manage to release patches at a record rate compared to Blizzard. Their is no good reason they can't. Other than well they're stretched to thin. SOME gating is necessary sure. This much not so much. I mean if they gave me ONE of the thigns I wanted for dungeons it wouldn't kill content that much. If they made 463 jp gear it wouldn't matter one bit for gating purposes. If they did every change I wanted yea then maybe it would be to much and to rewarding. Apparently that's a problem and Blizzard can't keep up with my fun. I mean that right their is insane. IF any other company couldn't feed it's customers demand it would go bankrupt. If Mcdondalds tmmrw said no more hamburgers you hungry masses or you only get half a hamburger each it would be madness. Granted creating this digital world is more complicated but are we honestly saying Blizzard can't do any better? Are we honestly saying they are totally helpless?

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 08:21 AM ----------

No, Atra, come on now, be fair. It's not like tiered raiding, it's like doing Firelands and using the Firelands gear to do Dragon Soul. Raid progression has been a staple of WoW for ages now. A raid comes out, then there's another raid that needs better gear, so you use the gear from the last raid.

edit: Besides, as I said earlier, we know that Blizzard will eventually make the old VP gear available for JP, to make it easier to get into the next tier of raiding.

It kinda feels like vanilla in that sense dude. I'm sorry. I guess if I don't raid I'm not supposed to get gear anymore. That was gay in vanilla and it's bad now.

[Deleted]

It's really that lucky. that's why it's called RNG. It's totally fucking random and you get it by luck. Especially with their shitty fucking loot tables. I'm running em alright. And being a good little boy and doing my dailies. All because a handful of people couldn't swallow the fucking fact that people who didn't raid somehow still had gear. ABSURD... HOW DARE THEY HAVE GEAR?

Yeah it's RNG just as it should be, but the drop chance on all items except epic items is fairly high, usually above 20 %, which theoretically would require you to run it 5 times, which really isn't that much.

I wonder what you would do within the game if it wasn't RNG, and you could get all the gear you wanted within the first week? What would be left? If LFR was so easy that even randoms got it on the first try, and you had full LFR gear within two weeks? What exactly would you do, while waiting these months, for the next couple of dungeons and gear?

[jbombard]

Well yeah, HoF and Terrace have higher ilvl requirements than MV. You're meant to go into MV before you go into the other two. And if I remember, due to questing purposes, one of those HAS to come before the other. It's about progression. Heroics > LFR or raiding > harder raids.

There is nothing wrong with requiring that you go into one before the other. The problem is that you are required to get every single drop from Mogushan vaults and the rest heroic dungeon drops if you want to get in.(unless of course you are doing other raiding besides LFR which is kind of a silly requirement to get into LFR)

[Magpai]

HURRAY! This is another problem with a user-generated possible solution!

Before this week I had gotten 5 elder charms' worth of lesser harm in a week and a half. I could do only 30% of my dailies and be roughly in line to get one per week.

PvE "required" reputation:

Golden Lotus to Revered (to unlock Shado-Pan and August Celestial)

KLaxxi to Honored

SHado-Pan to Honored

August Celestials to Honored


The hardcore raider need only do two factinos of dailies per day: Klaxxi and GOlden LOtus til honred with Klaxxi, then just Golden Lotus, then just Shado-Pan and Celestials til honored with them. As for your elder charms, you're looking at about 10 dailies per day tops to get enough in a week.

Have fun!

[Glorious Leader]

Yeah it's RNG just as it should be, but the drop chance on all items except epic items is fairly high, usually above 20 %, which theoretically would require you to run it 5 times, which really isn't that much.

I wonder what you would do within the game if it wasn't RNG, and you could get all the gear you wanted within the first week? What would be left? If LFR was so easy that even randoms go it on the first try, and you had full LFR gear within two weeks? What exactly would you do, while waiting these months, for the next couple of dungeons and gear?

All things in balance. The RNG was meant to be alleviated by the jp gear and thats exactly what happened for wrath and cata. Now it doesn't do that. in the sense that I wouldn't still need to farm the piece. Now I still need to farm the piece. Some RNG is fine but WoW moved away from having to much and more and more into something that got away from that. I think we agree that RNG is necessary to a degree but were just arguing around the margins. I think the the current system doesn't do enough to alleviate it.

I'd be lvling alts which I probably won't be doing this expansion. LFR was exactly that easy in DS and groups still died. Now imagine what will happen in Mists lfr. Lfr is meant to be easy. Content for everyone at all levels of play. You have normals and heroic raids. I had jp/vp gear and lfr. HAD. Those aren't kinda pathetic now.

[Deleted]

HURRAY! This is another problem with a user-generated possible solution!

Before this week I had gotten 5 elder charms' worth of lesser harm in a week and a half. I could do only 30% of my dailies and be roughly in line to get one per week.

PvE "required" reputation:

Golden Lotus to Revered (to unlock Shado-Pan and August Celestial)

KLaxxi to Honored

SHado-Pan to Honored

August Celestials to Honored


The hardcore raider need only do two factinos of dailies per day: Klaxxi and GOlden LOtus til honred with Klaxxi, then just Golden Lotus, then just Shado-Pan and Celestials til honored with them. As for your elder charms, you're looking at about 10 dailies per day tops to get enough in a week.

Have fun!

It's actually less than that, you only need to do 6.4 dailies per day to get enough for the elder coins.

[jbombard]

HURRAY! This is another problem with a user-generated possible solution!

Before this week I had gotten 5 elder charms' worth of lesser harm in a week and a half. I could do only 30% of my dailies and be roughly in line to get one per week.

PvE "required" reputation:

Golden Lotus to Revered (to unlock Shado-Pan and August Celestial)

KLaxxi to Honored

SHado-Pan to Honored

August Celestials to Honored


The hardcore raider need only do two factinos of dailies per day: Klaxxi and GOlden LOtus til honred with Klaxxi, then just Golden Lotus, then just Shado-Pan and Celestials til honored with them. As for your elder charms, you're looking at about 10 dailies per day tops to get enough in a week.

Have fun!

Unless of course you don't like repetitive daily cases, in which case it isn't "Have fun!" that Blizzard is saying, they are saying "suck it bitches, you are going to do what we tell you to and like it". Goodbye are the days where you did group content to progress in group content, now you will do your daily quests and like it!

[Deleted]

I think the problem does not really lie with the system, but in the kind of players WoW has created throughout the years: gear power-hungry people
Where the designer see various options and different way to get gear or increase your powers (dungeons OR daily OR raid or a various mix of those), players only see "I have to" do dungeon AND do dailies AND do raid AND etc.

It is not "oh look I can get charms of good fortune for some of these tokens every week as an ADDED reward for doing dailies (that I like doing)"
It is "oh shit look there are charms of good fortune now I have to do dailies every week (that I hate doing)"

To be honest everything is optional no one is ever forced to do it, is that most people are so OMFGNEEDMOARLOOTGRAGAGRAAAARLRLALRLRLRL that feel they "have to" do so. It is always "I have to have more gear" it is never "I have to have fun"

Blizzard fault I guess to make the game so gear driven I suppose, but the mistake does not certainly lies with the design structure of Pandaria.

It's the same for reputation "omfg PURPLEZ": required. No not really, the starting raids are probably meant to be done in heroic blues and there will be LFR soon anyway. The only complain I can accept is crafting recipes hidden behind those reputation.

My 2 cents on the matter

[Deleted]

All things in balance. The RNG was meant to be alleviated by the jp gear and thats exactly what happened for wrath and cata. Now it doesn't do that. in the sense that I wouldn't still need to farm the piece. Now I still need to farm the piece. Some RNG is fine but WoW moved away from having to much and more and more into something that got away from that. I think we agree that RNG is necessary to a degree but were just arguing around the margins. I think the the current system doesn't do enough to alleviate it.

I'd be lvling alts which I probably won't be doing this expansion. LFR was exactly that easy in DS and groups still died. Now imagine what will happen in Mists lfr. Lfr is meant to be easy. Content for everyone at all levels of play. You have normals and heroic raids. I had jp/vp gear and lfr. HAD. Those aren't kinda pathetic now.

If LFR is too hard then of course they will nerf it further, I haven't looked at it yet but I'm sure it's another case of people having to run it a couple of times to grasp the concept of the tactics. If they changed the JP gear item lvl to 463 I really couldn't care less, it doesn't affect me and I feel that 458 is basically the same thing, so if that would help you, fine. But it really isn't necessary, it fills it's purpose of gearing up for raids, which is what it's for.

[jbombard]

I think the problem does not really lie with the system, but in the kind of players WoW has created through the years: gear power-hungry people
Where the designer see various options and different way to get gear or increase your player powers (dungeons OR daily OR raid or a various mix of those), players only see "I have to" do dungeon AND do dailies AND do raid AND etc.

It is not "oh look I can get charms of good fortune for some of these tokens every week as an ADDED reward for doing dailies (that I like doing)"
It is "oh shit look there are charms of good fortune now I have to do dailies every week"

To be honest everything is optional no one is ever forced to do it, is that most people are so OMFGNEEDMOARLOOTGRAGAGRAAAARLRLALRLRLRL that feel they "have to" do so. It is always "I have to do more" it is never "I have to have fun"

My 2 cents on the matter
Blizzard fault I guess to make the game so gear driven I suppose, but the mistake does not certainly lies with the design structure of Pandaria.

Actually you are missing the point entirely. The problem is that different activities are not rewarded equally, so there is no real choice in what activities you do which is contrary to what Blizzard told us was going to happen.

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 05:38 PM ----------

If LFR is too hard then of course they will nerf it further, I haven't looked at it yet but I'm sure it's another case of people having to run it a couple of times to grasp the concept of the tactics. If they changed the JP gear item lvl to 463 I really couldn't care less, it doesn't affect me and I feel that 458 is basically the same thing, so if that would help you, fine. But it really isn't necessary, it fills it's purpose of gearing up for raids, which is what it's for.

You realize that honor gear is also 458 and has free stats? You realize that they said justice gear was going to be better for PvE than honor gear... yet it isn't... at all. Honor gear is easier to get and just as good as justice gear in PvE. PvE. PvP gear is equal to PvE gear in PvE. What is the point of justice gear again? Oh right there isn't one. If this was what they were going to do they should have just got rid of Justice and made heroics drop honor.

[Deleted]

Actually you are missing the point entirely. The problem is that different activities are not rewarded equally, so there is no real choice in what activities you do which is contrary to what Blizzard told us was going to happen.

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 05:38 PM ----------



You realize that honor gear is also 458 and has free stats? You realize that they said justice gear was going to be better for PvE than honor gear... yet it isn't... at all. Honor gear is easier to get and just as good as justice gear in PvE. PvE. PvP gear is equal to PvE gear in PvE. What is the point of justice gear again? Oh right there isn't one. If this was what they were going to do they should have just got rid of Justice and made heroics drop honor.

Do you realize that honor gear is worthless in pve because it has pvp power and resilience which does nothing in pve?

Oh, and I find it much easier to get honor points by running heroic dungeons and converting it to honor points, no bots in heroics.

[Synstir]

Yeah, to be honest they didn't do a good job at keeping their word.
it looks like they changed directions again and they didn't choose the right one.

[Glorious Leader]

If LFR is too hard then of course they will nerf it further, I haven't looked at it yet but I'm sure it's another case of people having to run it a couple of times to grasp the concept of the tactics. If they changed the JP gear item lvl to 463 I really couldn't care less, it doesn't affect me and I feel that 458 is basically the same thing, so if that would help you, fine. But it really isn't necessary, it fills it's purpose of gearing up for raids, which is what it's for.

No that's not what it's for. That's never been what it's for. It's always been a method to combat rng dungeons and aid in the feeling of progression. Currently it doesn't do that well enough because you still feel like theirs progression in the dungeons related to directly dropping stuff from bosses. That niche your talking about has never been needed. I used to raid Karazhan in blues and greens and it didn't fucking matter.

Raiding by it's very nature is ill suited for the looking for group dynamic. Throwing 25 people together, expecting them to work together to overcome this challenge, 25 people who don't know each or other, have no structure and no prior relationship and then making that challenge actually challenging is doomed. Christ they couldn't even get 5 people together to do it in cataclysm...

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 08:42 AM ----------

Do you realize that honor gear is worthless in pve because it has pvp power and resilience which does nothing in pve?

.... Power and resilience no longer take up rolls on the item. They are calculated as free bonus stats on the item. Honor gear is actually still better at this point because it has a gem socket on it. Better customization.

[Deleted]

Actually you are missing the point entirely. The problem is that different activities are not rewarded equally, so there is no real choice in what activities you do which is contrary to what Blizzard told us was going to happen.

No they never told this nonsense bullshit.

Hardware mode raiding and highend pvp must reward better loot to work . Dailies are moreso for players who like doing them.

For Coins you need to do some dailies but i can get enough for 1 or 2days of daily wuests,perhaps 20minutes per days.

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 08:43 AM ----------

Do you realize that honor gear is worthless in pve because it has pvp power and resilience which does nothing in pve?

Oh, and I find it much easier to get honor points by running heroic dungeons and converting it to honor points, no bots in heroics.

It is worth the Itemlevel it has .

[jbombard]

Do you realize that honor gear is worthless in pve because it has pvp power and resilience which does nothing in pve?

Ahh apparently you don't know how iLevel works in MoP. None of the PvP stats count towards the iLevel. Since only PvE stats are counted towards iLevel, a piece of PvP gear and PvE gear of the same iLevel are equivalent for PvE purposes. All the PvP stats on the item are free. To offset this they said the iLevel for PvP gear would be lower, which it is for conquest gear. However Honor gear is equal to Justice gear for PvE.

[Glorious Leader]

Hardware mode raiding and highend pvp must reward better loot to work . Dailies are moreso for players who like doing them.

.

Nope. They are for everybody now because the reward is to good. The option to not do them is shittier than doing them hence people feel compelled to do them. Look if dailies genuienly were for pplayers who like doing them, then I have a simple solution. Remove the valor gear from them and keep all the cosmetic crap.