6.0 Rogue redesign ideas (a la warlock)

[Daisyhead]

Disclaimer: This is completely conceptual, and I wouldn't expect to see any sweeping changes like the ones discussed here at least until 6.0.

Okay. To start off, many rogues feel there is great homogeny between their three specs. Playing one doesn't feel much different at all from playing another. What I would like to do is talk about ways that this class could be redesigned in a way that would make it more interesting and active while also promoting separation between the specs. A great deal extra flavor could potentially be added to this class.

Something that comes along with this discussion are potential ideas to make the rogue talent tree not suck, i.e. interesting.

To start the thread off, here are some ideas that me and a buddy of mine came up with tonight spitballing around. It's vague, but could be a lot of fun!

Assassination - Becomes truly all about poisons-- others specs stop using poisons to make room for other fun abilities specific to that spec. This spec utilizes poison bombs, poison "cp" builders, dynamic finisher(s) acting differently depending on poisons. A crazy alchemist or something

- Add new poisons for flavor/effect
- Damaging poisons become CP-building abilities
- Utility poisons become short CDs
- Build poison charges aka combo points on the target.
- Poison charges will look visually different depending on which poison was used for tracking
- Poison charges will stack on multiple targets but run down at a rate similar to holy power
- Mutilate becomes finisher that acts differently depending on which poisons were applied
- On the fence about whether to include abilities such as slice and dice or rupture at all
for the sake of making the spec feel different

Like I said, still pretty vague, but we're just trying to get the ball rolling on some ideas to breathe life into the class. We would love to hear some ideas about what could be fun and unique for Combat and Subtlety.


I'm unable to post a link to the original post, but if you are interested the title is "6.0 rogue redesign ideas" in the rogue section of the official forums. Feel free to drop by and add anything!

[Deleted]

Honestly, this sounds like a lot of fun! Blizzard should really think of something like this, so that you actually *feel* that you're playing two different speccs!
Great thoughts :-)

/PandaKush, Darksorrow.

[Deleted]

I like it!

But designing combat could prove to be a bit harder, keeping in mind that it would have to be something like a Swashbuckler.

[Deleted]

Slice&Dice doesn't increase haste anymore, but flat dmg or just dmg of styles.

4th Spec Swashbuckler: Similar to combat but tank!

[Daisyhead]

Honestly, this sounds like a lot of fun! Blizzard should really think of something like this, so that you actually *feel* that you're playing two different speccs!
Great thoughts :-)

/PandaKush, Darksorrow.

Thanks for the positive feedback, man. I think that a lot of people could get behind some of these ideas personally. More spec identity!

---------- Post added 2012-10-14 at 02:53 PM ----------

I like it!

But designing combat could prove to be a bit harder, keeping in mind that it would have to be something like a Swashbuckler.

We've been throwing around some pretty cool ideas on the official forums post about combat. In general, a focus on weapon strikes and a move away from poison damage and auto attack damage/speed is really what combat needs. Active counterattacks, reworking slice and dice to move away from attack speed, quick strike attacks, and maybe a some greater mobility via a grappling hook or something -- that could really make combat awesome in my opinion! (I don't take credit for most of these ideas. They are from other contributors)

[Beavis]

I've always liked the idea of rogues having a spec that transforms us into a ranged class, kind of like the opposite of enhancement for shamans.

[Deleted]

I've always liked the idea of rogues having a spec that transforms us into a ranged class, kind of like the opposite of enhancement for shamans.

Maybe a short range kind of ambusher crossbow user.

[eijin]

Could definately see it being interesting. If youve ever played rift, this sounds a lot like a sabatour. If you havent, they have multiple diffrent "charges". None of the charges do any damage themselves, but they would have diffrent effects when you detinated them.
-Direct damage
-DoT
-Stun
-Snare
-Debuff vulnerability to physical
-debuff vulnerability to magical
-AoE

You can stack 5 charges then when you detinate it applies all the damage. Of course you would likely want to change it from what rift had, but it sounds like a similar begining. This was -very- difficult to balance.

I would love to see a no poison combat rogue focusing more around being more of a brawler. Low burst, high DPS, solid survivability to average damage (higher evasion, potentially higher armor). I would keep energy, but change the way it works to add to the "combat" aspect of them, where doing -something- effects your energy regeneration. The passive energy regen would be massively shot, but then every time an auto attack landed you would get x amount of energy, every time you dodge you get x amount of energy and so on. A tad more like the rage system but i'd like to see them do better as the fight got longer. Perhaps stealing from ferocious bite, our finishers would be more effective the more energy we use on them (maybe even consuming all the energy you currently have). This would make slice and dice vital as a more effective slice and dice would mean more auto attack which would mean more energy.

Sub as better burst, better stealth, better cooldowns/"toys" such as smoke bomb which are useful in certain situations. Stealth would be key, so as opposed to just having stealth and vanish, then shadow dance acting as stealth, i'd do something more like a demo lock where some of your attacks help you fade from your enemy, i dont know the RP stuff behind it but basically an "in combat stealth" meter where you can turn on and off a conceal effect that makes you able to use stealth abilities as well as potentially something like a personal smoke bomb effect (cant be the target of direct range attacks).

[Deleted]

Subtlety - Poisons and Bleeds entwined, moving in and out of stealth in combat to remain unseen.

Combat - Hack and Slash, not dissimilar to current form, big finishers and fast flurries of combos of swings. Main gauche can proc combo points.

Assassination - Burst damage, crit damage modifiers, dagger mandatory, exposing weaknesses in opponent's armor, a type of smokebomb you can throw on target to buff your chance to critically hit by a large % and your raid group's by say, 10% for a short duration.

Bladeflurry baseline.

There, rogue is now fun and stylish.

Shadowblades 1.5min CD, with dark warglaive, smoking effect.

[Matutin]

Shadowblades 1.5min CD, with dark warglaive, smoking effect.

This ^.

Please, please, pretty please, make a minor glyph that changes your weps to warglaives when Shadowblades is up. Just like the pally one but with glaives

[Raldazzar]

I think of it less like poisons etc etc but more like

assassination = daggers. through and through.
Combat = Swashbuckler. think, fencing duels... sword fights you see in fantasy films etc, thats a combat rogue. (Oh HARP spec <3)
Sub = the fun one. the 'ninja' tree, not to be confused with assassin, this guy uses things like smoke/vanish/poison/traps/garrote wire.. ninja reflexes etc (making mobility a high prio) etc

[Viradiance]

An idea I've always liked for Subtlety is for them to gain "Shadow charge" as they use builders, much like Demonic Power or whatever for Demonology Warlocks.

The basic idea is that every builder generates X Shadow Charge. For every Y Shadow Charge, an ability normally only usable from Stealth will be available for use (Think Shadow Dance, but more rotational).

Shadow Charge can also be expended on certain defensive abilities to 'reset' the cooldown-- Cloak of Shadows, Vanish and Evasion come to mind.


Combat, I would like to see based more around actual Combos, like Blizzcon/Alpha monks were.

[Matutin]

I am the only one who thinks that KS should be a Sub spell? Idk, the whole idea behind teleporting from enemy to enemy thru the shadows feels more "sub" than combat.