New lore interview (Kosak)

[Scummer]

You still call it sad. How do you know, did you try it?

The fact they all hate Arthas for what he did to them was a bit of a give away as to the joys of undeath. Not mention the KotEB

---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 11:52 AM ----------

Again, where did you get the "world domination" part? They are struggling to extend their race, not to dominate the bloody world.

They constantly mention their own hate and desire to kill the living?

[Lupinemancer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPF5kGZ7mQM&feature=plcp

What i'm mostly excited about here is the Book Of Cain of WoW, can't wait to read that one.

[Demetrion]

The fact they all hate Arthas for what he did to them was a bit of a give away as to the joys of undeath. Not mention the KotEB

---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 11:52 AM ----------



They constantly mention their own hate and desire to kill the living?

Err where exactly?

[Deleted]

The forsaken started out interesting, though. The people and victims of Arthas who have regained their free will and tried to go "Hay guyz! Look at us! We're free and we want to enjoy life and pet dogs and hug kitties!" and basically got attacked on the spot as undead scum. The ones who tried to go back to families were chased off by relatives and old loved ones who had made peace and given them up. They joined up with the Horde for self-preservation, basically. And though they said that all they feel is hatred to the living and don't care for anything and all such things... If that were true, why would they have tried in the first place?
And like any race, you have good and bad flavors.

The bulk of the Forsaken ~now~, however, (not counting the PCs) are basically a wall of undead flesh to protect Sylvanas from Final Death. She's still paying lip-service loyalty to Garrosh because she still needs Horde to keep her south borders safe from Alliance. Lor'Themar (hereafter Bob for easy typing) is being strong-armed by her and HE is just paying lip-service loyalty to her because he needs the Forsaken to help protect his borders from the Trolls. I'm fairly sure both will gladly break their outwardly alliances the moment they have the chance to do so.

As for reclaiming the land they once had... Lodearon NEVER owned Gilneas lands and I think I can actually blame THEM for turning it into a threat. Sure, the whole Worgen-curse thing was a pretty big deal, but it seemed that they had it fairly well under control and Genn would've been rather happy to stay behind his wall if they never marched on it or killed off his son. (and I know that arrow was meant for him, still...)
The people of Southshore were pretty much still the original inhabitants of the place, too. Not much to go and reclaim there... And a handfull of living people operating farms hoping really really hard that the Orcs to the north in Arathi don't come out, or the undead to the east and west don't stop by, is hardly a threat. An eyesore perhaps in what is otherwise mostly uncontested Horde territory.

As for what may happen... I think Sylvanas will eventually join up on Garroshs side of the last conflict. We'll probably have to burn through her Valkyr before we can deal with her. Bob will probably gladly deliver them to us if only to try and get out of his agreements with her if Vol'Jin will promise to protect the Bloodelf lands instead of the Forsaken. After all, 'de Amani need ta be watched'.

Next in line will be tricky. People are calling for Voss, but she hates undeath and those who would put others through it. She's more likely to euthanize the entire Forsaken race and call it 'mercy'. Koltira may step up if that didn't reek so much of a watered down version of Bolvar follwing in Arthas' throne. At least he would still see the reasons to keep making new Forsaken, though not as aggressively as Sylvanas...
It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Scummer]

Err where exactly?

Beware the living, their intro, "Plaguing an entire world proves to be a bit more complicated" and "Oh, <name>... the flowers are blooming in Hillsbrad and the air is so fresh and brisk. I can't help but to wallow in the misery of it all. I look out my grimy window and long for the day when our New Plague brings this world the death it deserves." etc.
Combine this with the fact they hold no loyalties to the Horde and actively betray them, do experiments behind their back can you really say they even think of the Horde as allies? The Horde has always been a tool for Sylvanas to further their race.
They resent life.

---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 12:06 PM ----------

You still call it sad. How do you know, did you try it?

Listen and read up on Sylvanas's quotes.

"What are we if not slaves to this torment?"
"What joy is there in this curse?"

[Demetrion]

The forsaken started out interesting, though. The people and victims of Arthas who have regained their free will and tried to go "Hay guyz! Look at us! We're free and we want to enjoy life and pet dogs and hug kitties!" and basically got attacked on the spot as undead scum. The ones who tried to go back to families were chased off by relatives and old loved ones who had made peace and given them up. They joined up with the Horde for self-preservation, basically. And though they said that all they feel is hatred to the living and don't care for anything and all such things... If that were true, why would they have tried in the first place?
And like any race, you have good and bad flavors.

The bulk of the Forsaken ~now~, however, (not counting the PCs) are basically a wall of undead flesh to protect Sylvanas from Final Death. She's still paying lip-service loyalty to Garrosh because she still needs Horde to keep her south borders safe from Alliance. Lor'Themar (hereafter Bob for easy typing) is being strong-armed by her and HE is just paying lip-service loyalty to her because he needs the Forsaken to help protect his borders from the Trolls. I'm fairly sure both will gladly break their outwardly alliances the moment they have the chance to do so.

As for reclaiming the land they once had... Lodearon NEVER owned Gilneas lands and I think I can actually blame THEM for turning it into a threat. Sure, the whole Worgen-curse thing was a pretty big deal, but it seemed that they had it fairly well under control and Genn would've been rather happy to stay behind his wall if they never marched on it or killed off his son. (and I know that arrow was meant for him, still...)
The people of Southshore were pretty much still the original inhabitants of the place, too. Not much to go and reclaim there... And a handfull of living people operating farms hoping really really hard that the Orcs to the north in Arathi don't come out, or the undead to the east and west don't stop by, is hardly a threat. An eyesore perhaps in what is otherwise mostly uncontested Horde territory.

As for what may happen... I think Sylvanas will eventually join up on Garroshs side of the last conflict. We'll probably have to burn through her Valkyr before we can deal with her. Bob will probably gladly deliver them to us if only to try and get out of his agreements with her if Vol'Jin will promise to protect the Bloodelf lands instead of the Forsaken. After all, 'de Amani need ta be watched'.

Next in line will be tricky. People are calling for Voss, but she hates undeath and those who would put others through it. She's more likely to euthanize the entire Forsaken race and call it 'mercy'. Koltira may step up if that didn't reek so much of a watered down version of Bolvar follwing in Arthas' throne. At least he would still see the reasons to keep making new Forsaken, though not as aggressively as Sylvanas...
It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.

Gilneas was war operation not only made by Forsaken, but whole Horde asked for it.
Soutshore, Forsaken waged war with Soutshore since the beginning of WoW. One side had to win.

And why would Sylvanas join Garrosh? What purpose? I don't follow your logic. She is against him as are the other leaders.

For the new leader, only one who can replace Sylvanas is Nathanos the Blightcaller, and the reasons are obvious.

[Verdugo]

Listen and read up on Sylvanas's quotes.

"What are we if not slaves to this torment?"
"What joy is there in this curse?"

Never take melancholic rants of an elf seriously. Most of the Forsaken seem quite content with what they got, one of them even worked himself to become owner of a mansion.

As for the whole "I hate Arthas for what he did to me", I think it was the whole "control your every step" thing that pissed them off. You wouldnt be happy should you become part of a new bridge to silvermoon.

[Trassk]

As for what may happen... I think Sylvanas will eventually join up on Garroshs side of the last conflict. We'll probably have to burn through her Valkyr before we can deal with her. Bob will probably gladly deliver them to us if only to try and get out of his agreements with her if Vol'Jin will promise to protect the Bloodelf lands instead of the Forsaken. After all, 'de Amani need ta be watched'.

Next in line will be tricky. People are calling for Voss, but she hates undeath and those who would put others through it. She's more likely to euthanize the entire Forsaken race and call it 'mercy'. Koltira may step up if that didn't reek so much of a watered down version of Bolvar follwing in Arthas' throne. At least he would still see the reasons to keep making new Forsaken, though not as aggressively as Sylvanas...
It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.

I can completely debunk you right there. They have already told us that A: Sylvanas will be involved in ousting garrosh as warchief. and B: The next warchief will be involved in coming down heavy on sylvanas and her corrupt ways.

[Demetrion]

Beware the living, their intro, "Plaguing an entire world proves to be a bit more complicated" and "Oh, <name>... the flowers are blooming in Hillsbrad and the air is so fresh and brisk. I can't help but to wallow in the misery of it all. I look out my grimy window and long for the day when our New Plague brings this world the death it deserves." etc.
Combine this with the fact they hold no loyalties to the Horde and actively betray them, do experiments behind their back can you really say they even think of the Horde as allies? The Horde has always been a tool for Sylvanas to further their race.
They resent life.

---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 12:06 PM ----------



Listen and read up on Sylvanas's quotes.

"What are we if not slaves to this torment?"
"What joy is there in this curse?"

The stuff you quoted was all before events of battle for Undercity, where Putress was still the leader of Apothecary Society, and we all know what happened to him.

"Beware of the living" since, you know, 5 out of 9 living races are their enemies.

[Scummer]

The stuff you quoted was all before events of battle for Undercity, where Putress was still the leader of Apothecary Society, and we all know what happened to him.

The second quote is from Lydon. He got promoted, don't tell me he was blindly following Putress. Up until the point Putress betrayed everybody nobody had a problem with him, that should speak to you about the attitude most of the Forsaken and Sylvanas have, the fact Putress betrayed the Forsaken doesn't suddenly mean that all Apothecaries were lead astray. The creation of it and it's purpose were and have remained the same. Practically Apothecaries speak of blighting Azeroth, not just the Alliance.

"Beware of the living" since, you know, 5 out of 9 living races are their enemies.

Right.....now you're just trying wriggle out of this.
It couldn't have anything to do with the fact they resent life as a whole? Again they don't like the Horde, they are just using them so that they can get rid of one faction so that they turn on the other.

[Verdugo]

It couldn't have anything to do with the fact they resent life as a whole? Again they don't like the Horde, they are just using them so that they can get rid of one faction so that they turn on the other.

I bet you resent cockroaches too.

[Scummer]

I bet you resent cockroaches too.

Hissing Cockroaches make for good pets .

[Demetrion]

The second quote is from Lydon. He got promoted, don't tell me he was blindly following Putress. Up until the point Putress betrayed everybody nobody had a problem with him, that should speak to you about the attitude most of the Forsaken and Sylvanas have, the fact Putress betrayed the Forsaken doesn't suddenly mean that all Apothecaries were lead astray. The creation of it and it's purpose were and have remained the same. Practically Apothecaries speak of blighting Azeroth, not just the Alliance.

Of course not. Production of the plague continued for the war purposes.

Right.....now you're just trying wriggle out of this.
It couldn't have anything to do with the fact they resent life as a whole? Again they don't like the Horde, they are just using them so that they can get rid of one faction so that they turn on the other.

Beware =/= Kill.

Beware means to be cautious around living since most of the living doesn't understand undeath.

[Scummer]

Beware =/= Kill.

Beware means to be cautious around living since most of the living doesn't understand undeath.

They don't trust the living.
They hate the living.
They don't see the Horde as allies, merely tools to further their agenda. They hate the Alliance more, bu it doesn't mean they like or have respect for their "allies".Their agenda has always been to blight Azeroth

[Fahrenheit]

Ogres, cool.
Saurok, cool.
Naga, cool.
Ethereals, cool.
Drakonids, cool.
Hell, even Arakkoa are cool.

A third elf playable race? Not cool. Regardless of the lore.
Make it a skin choice of NEs that can only be caster type classes and be done with it.

[sam86]

First of all, while the valkyr do raise people from death, you have free will 100% and they can go back die, or even not joining undead ranks and join however you want, the racism of other races toward any undead however may make that extremely hard
As for Forsaken now
http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:A_Letter_Undelivered
"Oh...my poor Thurman! I begged him to leave Agamand Mills with me and my father, but his family loyalty was too strong! And I knew it! I just knew it that Brand meant him harm!! Oh, curse this Plague, and the Scourge!
<Yvette's face then smoothes and grows cold.>
But regrets are for the weak. As a Forsaken, I have new goals and love is not one of them. I would thank you for delivering this letter, for I had wondered what happened to my past love.
But that life is over. Forever."
That is the Forsaken now

[Darth-Piekus]

Personally I really don't know if they kill Sylvannas or not. I think there will be plenty of reasons in order after Garrosh to finish Sylvannas. However seeing how many fangirls Sylvannas have I doubt they will go for her Lich Queen or not.

There hasn't been a Single Game where you could find a Good Undead. The Undead for some reason have a hate to the living either it is little or a lot.

I understand that the Forsaken do not have anywhere else to go due to that curse they call undeath as almost noone would accept them. However as it is proven many many times and the forsaken fangirls don't want to see there have been those few who would help them find a cure to their curse. Perhaps something that could turn them to normal again. Everything is possible with magic. Sylvannas though instead of trying to stay somewhere peacefully trying to find a cure wants to make the rest of Azeroth suffer the same fate of undeath. There are so many clues in the game that if you cannot see it you are either a fanatic forsaken fangirl or not very clever.

And as Traask said the next Warchief will finally finish the whole World Domination plans of Sylvannas. Though Traask can you provide that link to me in order to read it also to see details?

[sam86]

Another quest from vanilla wow identify Forsaken were betraying the horde before the alliance
http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Nothing_But_The_Truth
"Please have mercy on me! I have information that goes beyond alliance boundaries. While I am no sympathizer of the Horde, there is political treachery going on that must be revealed!"

[Verdugo]

Another quest from vanilla wow identify Forsaken were betraying the horde before the alliance
http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Nothing_But_The_Truth
"Please have mercy on me! I have information that goes beyond alliance boundaries. While I am no sympathizer of the Horde, there is political treachery going on that must be revealed!"

I think that was leading to the wrathgate, nothing more.

The fact that they were sent by Varimathras confirms it.

[Northem]

Here's where we're walking face-first into a retcon. Blood Elves and High Elves in lore are the exact same race, just with different eye colorations. They would have to retcon High Elves to give them a new model.

Maybe the blood elves are who deserve a reconnection, to give them a brand new story and new models ingame more "demonic", after all, the demonic magic is inextricably linked to each of its cells.

And with the re-ignition of the Sunwell with holy magic, the consequences of mixing the two sources of polarized magic in their bodies can be disastrous: a new race emerges. The High Elves kept pure and uncontaminated will be the only ones who can keep their ancestral heritage.

[...] High Elves for the Alliance [...] New Class - Necromancer [...] an alternate timeline [...]

oh God! if only they did that ...

They may be a different group, who have splintered off due to coruption, but so are the green skinned orcs. If the alliance, for whatever reason, got brown skinned orcs, and were told "it's a different race, see how better textured it is than the horde's orcs", would you cheer, or would say it's a copout? It is identical to the high elf/blood elf thing. They are the same race, just without that magic-addiction history.

Even worse than the orc thing, alliance already has elves. This would be like adding dark iron dwarves and stating taht's a new alliance race. There needs to be a reason to the new race, some new variety that people are missing.

I'm not saying Blizzard wouldn't do it, I'm just saying it can't really be defended as "not the blood elves at all."

But the High Elves are an intrinsic part of the Alliance since forever! How they do, I not care, but the Alliance needs the High Elves in its ranks, they should actually be playable from vanilla WoW ...


In summary:

---

The High Elves have been a race itself for millennia, in fact, the Blood Elves are those who have deviated from the original race, and thus forming a sub-race themselves.

There are enough differences between the High Elves of the Alliance and the Blood Elves of the Horde: different customs, different psychologies, different ways of doing things, and even, we could talk about certain physical differences ... (not so natural, but rather artificial ones: as showed here).

Moreover, even if they were exactly the same race in every way, the High Elves would still have a special place as a race in the ranks of the Alliance. The High Elves still persist, and are a vital part of the Alliance since the times of Arathor.

The loyalty of the High Elves for the Alliance is commendable: they self-exiled from their ancestral lands in order not to betray the Alliance. The king Anasterian himself (personal friend of the Menethil dynasty for generations) would turn in his grave watching his people becoming addicted to the magic and allying with the Horde (allies of the trolls and enemies of the humans).

Does the fact that they are similar to the Blood Elves makes that High Elves cannot be playable? Of course not, look at the Pandaren (first neutral race present in the Horde and the Alliance)
Are the High Elves too few to be playable? Of course not, look at the Pandaren (how many Pandaren can fit on the back of a giant turtle?) or the Goblins (how many goblins can fit on a boat and survive a shipwreck?)

The High Elves are ALREADY a race of Alliance, just have not been given the importance and recognition they deserve.

The High Elves in the Alliance are the symmetric counterpart to the Horde Ogres: they complete the quota of historic races on both sides. If Ogres become playable for the Horde (which I personally wish pleasantly), the High Elves should be also playable for the Alliance.

Are there many elven races in the game? It is possible, but is that bad? Of course not: it gives more diversity to the game yet. You remember: the trolls are the ancestors of the elves, the Nagas are elves and even the Worgen are here thanks to the intervention of the elves. Is that the “World of Elvencraft”? Not necessarily, humans are in fact the most prolific race of Azeroth and have many subspecies and ancestors.

In fact, in most fantasy worlds there are many elven races, and in the Warcraft universe currently we only have three: the high elves, who are the characteristic formal and honorable allies of humans, the night elves, who are the characteristic independent dark elves, and the blood elves, the characteristic libertines and arrogant elves.

Now the High Elves ingame are mere placeholders (using the blood elf models with blue lenses and the night elf voices)

The High Elves need more love from Blizzard: new models and animations (distinguishable from the Blood Elves), starting zone (Greenwood), a charismatic leader who will gather them all under a common goal (Alleria Windrunner is the perfect candidate ) and increased participation in world events (the silver unicorn banner will wave among the ranks of the Alliance) Glory to the Alliance! For the Quel'dorei!