NYC stop and frisk quite racist.

[fizzbob]

Themius, there are a large number of details one can infer from this article and recording. First, before I say anything else, the cops behavior is deplorable, and should be rectified.

a) The argument is racial profiling, but how many white people live IN Harlem? Of course the ratio of minorities to Caucasians will be greatly skewed, but it's by population, NOT solely based on race.
b) 1% of all stopped have a weapon. Perhaps the stop and frisk is doing what it's intended as, and that's a deterrent. If you are going to carry an illegal weapon, but have the possibility of being caught by a random search will likely change you mind in carrying that weapon.
c) What time of day was this recording taken? was it during the day when there were multiple people on the street, or was he walking alone at night on a slow street. If he's been picked out of a crowd every time, perhaps is something in his demeanor. IF he was walking alone, well who else would the look at?
d) His watching the cops wondering if they are going to stop to frisk him is a self fulfilling prophecy. Watching cops is a suspicious behavior. If someone doesn't have anything to hide, they won't care where the cops are. But in his defense, he gets pulled regularly, and as such he's going to look for it. This will cause a perpetual cycle.

IS this racial profiling? no, is this a few dick heads trying to hit a quota? yes. Is this practice bad? no, it's just a few bad apples (cops) give it a bad name.

yeah and in 1950 we "didn't give niggers rights because they weren't civilized enough to make good use of them"
it wasn't racist, it was "for them niggers own protection"
people have been using bullshit logic to validate their shortcomings as a human being since day one. if you can't own up to what you are, then obviously you know that what you are isn't right.

you need your balls cut off if you're so goddamn scared of everything that you think ruining the day of 99% of people who weren't doing anything wrong is ok. give those balls to someone who'll use them.
every time someone like you defends an action that is just wrong, it's because it hasn't happened to them. when it does your tune changes.

[artemishunter1]

I think he's damn cute . Thug, though? Yeah I agree...not very thuggish. Just a common style among teens

The common style is called Thuggish style. Just because it is common, it does not mean its not thuggish. How many times it is used has nothing to do with it. though its surprising why police will become so angry in just a moments notice. Anger is a process, not something people do instantly.

[fizzbob]

There's not much to be said of this thread, period. These cops were out of line, but given that the article posted presents only a facet of the situation it's hard to make a judgement of degree.

Consider yourself thankful that you live in a society where Terry Stopping is the upper limit of what can be done without a warrant.

you think they need a warrant to do shit to people who can't afford a lawyer? you folks are so damn out of touch with reality. here is what they did to me without a warrant when they were looking for something illegal thanks to an anonymous tip:

1) cuffed
2) shotgun in my face for 30 minutes
3) went into my house, turned out all my dresser drawers, went through my entertainment center, closet, etc, looked like a tornado hit
4) busted 2 holes in my walls in my bedroom the size of a basketball. they called this "probing"
5) took $14,000 worth of my equipment and said they'd give it back later. 6 years later, it's not given back and nobody knows anything about it

that's what they can do when they know you can't afford a high profile civil rights lawyer. turns out their tip was wrong but nothing came of it. i filed a complaint, nothing came of it.

[Reg]

Let's see the full uncut version of the tape. And let's see what happens before the tape to see what bullshit the kid really does to incite such action. Otherwise, this means nothing.

And maybe show a little respect and answer the questions without being a dick. The officer was speaking plain and simple to him until he back talked.

[artemishunter1]

yeah and in 1950 we "didn't give niggers rights because they weren't civilized enough to make good use of them"
it wasn't racist, it was "for them niggers own protection"
people have been using bullshit logic to validate their shortcomings as a human being since day one. if you can't own up to what you are, then obviously you know that what you are isn't right.

you need your balls cut off if you're so goddamn scared of everything that you think ruining the day of 99% of people who weren't doing anything wrong is ok. give those balls to someone who'll use them.
every time someone like you defends an action that is just wrong, it's because it hasn't happened to them. when it does your tune changes.

What he said has nothing to do with what you said at all. I am very confused. he used statistics of numbers, actual crime caught, and the person's suspicious behavior as excuse.

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 12:05 PM ----------

you think they need a warrant to do shit to people who can't afford a lawyer? you folks are so damn out of touch with reality. here is what they did to me without a warrant when they were looking for something illegal thanks to an anonymous tip:

1) cuffed
2) shotgun in my face for 30 minutes
3) went into my house, turned out all my dresser drawers, went through my entertainment center, closet, etc, looked like a tornado hit
4) busted 2 holes in my walls in my bedroom the size of a basketball. they called this "probing"
5) took $14,000 worth of my equipment and said they'd give it back later. 6 years later, it's not given back and nobody knows anything about it

that's what they can do when they know you can't afford a high profile civil rights lawyer. turns out their tip was wrong but nothing came of it. i filed a complaint, nothing came of it.

If you can't get a lawyer, a lawyer will be provided for you. You are not very smart if you simply allowed police to enter as they need a warrent. You can sue them and win. Complaining won't do anything, you should have sued them in court (its too late now), you could have found a lawyer who would have taken a cut of sued money as payment.

[Kathandira]

What he said has nothing to do with what you said at all. I am very confused. he used statistics of numbers, actual crime caught, and the person's suspicious behavior as excuse.

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 12:05 PM ----------



If you can't get a lawyer, a lawyer will be provided for you. You are not very smart if you simply allowed police to enter as they need a warrent. You can sue them and win. Complaining won't do anything, you should have sued them in court (its too late now), you could have found a lawyer who would have taken a cut of sued money as payment.

With the details provided, i agree. A lawyer present with this information would be drooling over the settlement and the cut he would get. This is easily a $50k civil rights case. But i can only make that assumption with the facts presented.

[artemishunter1]

Well luckily what you consider to be crimes doesn't mean anything.

If you have drug offences, and then you have minorities being convicted more than whites for the same crime, it is an issue. It doesn't matter if you believe it's not a crime.

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 10:40 AM ----------

What about the fact that over 90% of people stopped and frisked are doing nothing wrong and never arrested, yet get stopped time and time again? Does this not point to a problem?

Only 1% of people actually had a weapon on them.

Also officers are pushed to stop more people, arrest more people, and give more tickets and summons and pushed to beat the years previous numbers. It's not about safety.

The 90 percent lose nothing but time, it does not take an hour to search. The problem only exists if the search was not done in respectable manner. As we live in a society, we would need to endure minor inconvinience for safety.

Officers fine people more and more because the city is broke. Besides, they don't make up stuff, they only are not as leniant as they were before. People Do commit the violations but they don't get away by nice cops anymore.

[Kraenen]

Don't blame all police for the actions of a few bad eggs.

And stop and frisk, or rather Terry stopping, is an important tool in police arsenal.

also an important euphemism

[Zippoflames]

Well lets be honest, If your looking for knives etc you are not going to stop and search 80 year old white women are you?
If knife crime is done by mostly black youths then you stop and search the black youths, Same as if it is a young white guy issue then you stop and search the young white guys.. Not everything is racism

[azueau]

Don't blame all police for the actions of a few bad eggs.

And stop and frisk, or rather Terry stopping, is an important tool in police arsenal.

Stop and frisk requires a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. For example, in Terry the police officer observed the defendants casing a store before a robbery. Simply looking suspicious alone isn't enough to justify a Terry stop (Sibron v New York) and matching a profile of a criminal isn't either (US v Soklow).

Granted there might be something more to this story, but from the article it doesn't appear the police had any reason to suspect Alvin of criminal activity.

[Themius]

Let's see the full uncut version of the tape. And let's see what happens before the tape to see what bullshit the kid really does to incite such action. Otherwise, this means nothing.

And maybe show a little respect and answer the questions without being a dick. The officer was speaking plain and simple to him until he back talked.

I think you'd find it hard to be calm and respectful when you're being repeatedly stopped for walking down the street.

[Orlong]

If he has an iphone then it's like two buttons to record stuff, and they're situated on the side of the phone so you don't need to navigate through an entire menu from memory.



Thug wannabe? Seriously? Take away the hat and that is totally something me or my brothers would wear as white 20~ year olds, and a pretty popular look amongst most of our peers. The only visual indication the cops picked up on was his skin colour.

Sadly this kind of thing isn't exactly new, but still pretty rough to actually see (or hear) it.

That's the problem with young people, they almost ALL wear that ridiculous thug look clothing, when they should be wearing button up shirts or polo shirts and nice pants

[Deleted]

Chris has it all down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0m...e=results_main

[Algearond]

http://nydailynews.com/1.1178891

Well don't we have fine cops in NYC. He was stopped because he was looking at the cops. Stop and frisk seems like nothing but sanctioned racial profiling.

I know this just makes no sense to the uber-politically correct minded in society......BUT.......in situations like this just better to be safe then sorry. Just sayin.

[Themius]

I know this just makes no sense to the uber-politically correct minded in society......BUT.......in situations like this just better to be safe then sorry. Just sayin.

They stop the same guy all the time claiming he looks suspicious. They called him a fucking mutt and then made fun of his dad whose a traffic cop. They threatened to slap him when they asked why does he have an empty bag, he told them his hoodie was in it, the cop said he's getting smart with him. They threatened to arrest him, break his arm, and punch him in the face.

Police have a quota to meet and they are pushed to exceed previous years numbers. It's not about safety, it's about numbers.

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 12:48 PM ----------

That's the problem with young people, they almost ALL wear that ridiculous thug look clothing, when they should be wearing button up shirts or polo shirts and nice pants

What if thugs started committing crimes in polos and slacks...

[Orlong]

So it's fine to profile people based of clothes they're wearing? Can't go outside in a tank top and shorts, they may think you're a bad person and stop you. I mean when the cops stop the same guy over and over and over and over of course that person is going to look at them unfavorably every time they see them, that is what happened.

Of course it is. The type of clothes you wear is a HUGE indicator of your character. If you dont want to get stopped, wear normal clothes that dont make you stick out like a sore thumb. Remember when it was almost required to wear a tie anywhere you went? Perhaps it should STILL be that way, then we wouldnt have people looking ridiculous in the saggy pants, Tits and Ass hanging out, ripped jeans, T-shirts that should be worn under a dress shirt, Shirts with controversial or vulgar language on them, Jeans that look like you just mowed the grass or changed your oil in them (but are sold new like that) which my Mom wouldve thrown out if mine got that ragged looking, or dress like a member of Hell's angels and many others. You dress like an idiot, expect to be treated like one

[Deleted]

You dress like an idiot, expect to be treated like one

Best line today.

[Themius]

Of course it is. The type of clothes you wear is a HUGE indicator of your character. If you dont want to get stopped, wear normal clothes that dont make you stick out like a sore thumb. Remember when it was almost required to wear a tie anywhere you went? Perhaps it should STILL be that way, then we wouldnt have people looking ridiculous in the saggy pants, Tits and Ass hanging out, ripped jeans, T-shirts that should be worn under a dress shirt, Shirts with controversial or vulgar language on them, Jeans that look like you just mowed the grass or changed your oil in them (but are sold new like that) which my Mom wouldve thrown out if mine got that ragged looking, and many others. You dress like an idiot, expect to be treated like one

You do realize times have changed and therefore styles have changed and wife beaters/ tank tops are perfectly normal to be worn on the outside you anachronism. Tits and ass hanging out or being revealing doesn't = a criminal. Shirts with controversial vulgar language? So what? Is that hurting someone, does that make someone a criminal, does that mean they should be profiled? Ripped jeans? That's a popular style and has been for quite a while...

You dress like an idiot, perhaps you get treated like one when you are applying for a job, but when you are doing nothing but walking down the street you shouldn't be judged.

Best line today.

If by best you mean most closed minded, sure.

[azueau]

If you dont want to get stopped, wear normal clothes that dont make you stick out like a sore thumb.

So there's a dress code if you want your constitutional rights protected?

[Elegiac]

Stop and frisk requires a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. For example, in Terry the police officer observed the defendants casing a store before a robbery. Simply looking suspicious alone isn't enough to justify a Terry stop (Sibron v New York) and matching a profile of a criminal isn't either (US v Soklow).

Granted there might be something more to this story, but from the article it doesn't appear the police had any reason to suspect Alvin of criminal activity.

I'm aware, I'm just countermanding the position that Terry stopping is just a means of racial profiling.