Do you include 10 man raids in the World First race?

[Deleted]

Nope.

10 Man is much easier.

The simple truth.

[Beet]

People will vote yes because that's what they raid and they want their content to appear relevant on all levels. This poll won't really do much good. I would rather see a "provide insightful and relevant arguments for why 10mans should be considered equivalent to 25mans when tracking world's first kills" topic.

Agreed. I don't raid currently as I just got back to WoW but I do not count 10 mans as world firsts and never have. They are never on the same level as 25 mans.

[slakker]

first world problems

[Deleted]

I really don't understand people saying 10's are easier... Maybe to protect their own "I like to be carried because I s*** balls" in 25mans. Especially encounters with a tight enrage timer are in the beginning of raiding (with less gear and all) harder to pull off. If only 1 man slacks (dps wise for example) in a 10 man it's bye bye. Same goes for the distribution of classes and raidwide cd's which are more widely available in 25's. Futhermore I think it also really depends on the fight which one is harder, 10 or 25. I sincerely believe that more individual skill is needed to pull of 10's than 25's especially in the beginning. I think the only reason why 25's are more in favor of being legit, is that it's alot closer to the original vanilla feel of raiding when 40 ppl were needed to close the deal.

[Deleted]

25man for Main raids, 10mans have always been altcity for me.

[Jervaise]

I'm also quite sure more than %70 of 25 man players in top 200 can find a spot in equally ranked 10 man guild. They are so used to being carried.

Having 5-15 bad people in a 25 man raid is so default that this is the main reason most 25 man guilds break with 10 best running away from the derps.

[Deleted]

I'm also quite sure more than %70 of 25 man players in top 200 can find a spot in equally ranked 10 man guild. They are so used to being carried.

Having 5-15 bad people in a 25 man raid is so default that this is the main reason most 25 man guilds break with 10 best running away from the derps.

You re offending without a reason.
Instead of searching for the source of evil, you prefer acusing people for being carried.
Instead of checking at the rankings and see what paragon did, and how the content should be cleared, in 10 man, you have the nerve to isnist in urban myths.

So you re trying to shift the conversation from the total unfairness of the system that creates the conditions for teams to break up to the incompotence of people that have "been cut" from the downsizes.
That is unethical and uncalled, especially when you re referring to better players like those that belong in that top 200 25 people club.

Please refrain from heating up even more the conversation, and since you want to support that unsubstansiated argument that "who clears content first is world first regardless of size" check how well the other 10 man guilds did, on the same content that paragon destroyed all the competition.
Have a nice day.

[Nicola]

People are shitstorming because paragon got world first with 10man but didn't give a fuck when asians got world first spine and madness 10man?

[Adornus]

It's funny how people assume there is 5-15 people who are dead weight in 25m. That's completely false. You want to talk about dead weight, go look at 10m H Gara. The fact you could 3 heal it and still be enrage, means there is a completely lax DPS requirement for the intended 2 heal. Unless you're Method, you HAD to 4 heal it in 25m and the enrage was incredibly tight.

Go look at a good progression 25m and tell me there is dead weight. There isn't any. You'll get maybe one or two players depending on the fight and class, but generally there is none, because you can't afford it.

[Washuwa]

10 man is so much easier than 25, i did 10m the first week and 25 the last 2, and except by will of empeor which seems very balanced, 10 man is way easier, we wiped lots of times on elegon 25, and 10 man took 2-3 pulls to kill it.. and is a proof not just a thought, 10 man is indeed easier..

[Dominian]

Tier 11 a 10 man guild got world first and look how many people cared or even know their name. JK just all paragon fan boys in here.

[Glerimos]

Yes, World First is World First. Regardless of raid size.

[Deleted]

Tier 11 a 10 man guild got world first and look how many people cared or even know their name. JK just all paragon fan boys in here.

Yep and Paragon themselves just keep repeating

"It is a different race"
"We would raid 25 if we could raid up to our usual standards"
"We would like some more competition in the 10 man race"

Still all you see here is that

10 man content was overtuned in this tier (the content that paragon roflstomped)
World first is world first regardless of the size...

Human nature...those that know what they re talking about are being ignored...as usual...

[araine]

This horse have been dead for 2 years, Such a waste of fine horse meat, folks should have let this horse get to a nice place where he could have ended up as Gustafskorv http://www.gustafskorv.se/

that aside 1st is 1st

[Deleted]

It's because the world's best players are not interested in 10 mans.

Even so, shouldn't bad players still clear everything, because "it's easier"?

[araine]

People are shitstorming because paragon got world first with 10man but didn't give a fuck when asians got world first spine and madness 10man?

All those was 1st is 1st.

[Felarion]

i voted no. I raid myslef 10 man, but i think 25 is more prestige. Also best guilds in the world are 25 (most of them)

[Deleted]

Yes, World First is World First. Regardless of raid size.

Sure, but "World First" in the current system is worthless. What counts is "World First 25" and "World First 10". They're different things so lumping them together is nonsensical.

[Demetrion]

Nope.

10 Man is much easier.

Argument for this?

Have you ever really raided 10 man heroic? Remember t11?


OT: I do include 10 man into world first kills. They are as valid as 25 man.

[Deleted]

I think of them as their own thing.

Paragon got the world first 10man kill, but 25man was still open to get etc.