1. #3441
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    Which is irrelevant to what I said. He stated that an insider told him that there was no chance it would release in 2016, and he was right.
    Derek smarts word is meaningless without actual verifiable sources to back it up. He's too mired up in his own bullshit to be a reliable source of anything.

    Whether CIG can pull it off remains to be seen, they may very well yet fail, but Derek is not one to be trusted on that matter.

  2. #3442
    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    And he was also told by an insider that CIG would have to close it's doors back in February because they didn't have enough money. And that SQ42 isn't actually on 64-bit, or that the game was vaporware. The dude is a whackjob. Throw enough shit, and it'll eventually stick.
    Fair enough, didn't know about that.

    Still, the fact they couldn't show any of the chapters from SQ42 despite previously announcing it would release this year is a bit depressing. Every time I read about Star Citizen it seems the people making it keep expanding their goals. I wonder at what point are they going to say, "This is good enough for now."

  3. #3443
    Pandaren Monk masterhorus8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    Fair enough, didn't know about that.

    Still, the fact they couldn't show any of the chapters from SQ42 despite previously announcing it would release this year is a bit depressing. Every time I read about Star Citizen it seems the people making it keep expanding their goals. I wonder at what point are they going to say, "This is good enough for now."
    I'm actually not sure Star Citizen has had any goals added to it since early/mid 2014, maybe even late-2013. A lot of the planet tech was scheduled for eventual release, but wasn't planned for on release. They got that moved way ahead of schedule, which is really helping with the publicity (when the "journalists" aren't focusing on all of the negatives, which I found someone that is making a compilation of the biased shit, which I'll post later). Anywho, the stuff they've been working up had been piling up the schedule for quite some time. And they're finally pushing stuff out at a (mostly) good pace.
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  4. #3444
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    I'm actually not sure Star Citizen has had any goals added to it since early/mid 2014, maybe even late-2013. A lot of the planet tech was scheduled for eventual release, but wasn't planned for on release. They got that moved way ahead of schedule, which is really helping with the publicity (when the "journalists" aren't focusing on all of the negatives, which I found someone that is making a compilation of the biased shit, which I'll post later). Anywho, the stuff they've been working up had been piling up the schedule for quite some time. And they're finally pushing stuff out at a (mostly) good pace.
    Just to note, just cause they're not telling you about it on the stretch goals list any more, it doesn't mean they haven't added more planned features post 2014.

    There's a lot we don't know about SQ42 design wise, id wager the same thing goes for the mmo part of it.

  5. #3445
    Pandaren Monk masterhorus8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    Just to note, just cause they're not telling you about it on the stretch goals list any more, it doesn't mean they haven't added more planned features post 2014.

    There's a lot we don't know about SQ42 design wise, id wager the same thing goes for the mmo part of it.
    Fair enough. I guess one of example of this actually might be their max player count/instancing tech.
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  6. #3446
    Finally was able to watch CitizenCon since I missed it because of Thanksgiving (Canadian). Lots of info but not much in the way of new gameplay. That being said, great look at Procedural Planets V2. Here's the raw vid that the SC YouTube account uploaded. If they get the missions on planets right, there may not be much reason to go into space.


  7. #3447
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    Fair enough, didn't know about that.

    Still, the fact they couldn't show any of the chapters from SQ42 despite previously announcing it would release this year is a bit depressing. Every time I read about Star Citizen it seems the people making it keep expanding their goals. I wonder at what point are they going to say, "This is good enough for now."
    To me the fact that they are not showing anything signifies they have nothing to show.

    They are still working on the underlying game. The flying, the fighting ect. Yes that is coming along from what we can see in the Arena game but its not done yet.
    Hard to work putting story chapters into the game when the game underneath it is still in a largely unfinished state.

    Which makes the release date all the more delusional.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  8. #3448
    The Lightbringer Waaldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    Which is irrelevant to what I said. He stated that an insider told him that there was no chance it would release in 2016, and he was right.
    He also had an insider source with irrefutable proof that RSI was going bankrupt and disbanding in January 2016. You make a bunch of radical guessing, something is bound to come true. The fact that the only true thing he has said in his entire career was that "this game will be delayed" after it has already had multiple delays shows how stupid he is, and how insane people are for listening to him.
    These aren't the spoilers you're looking for.

    Move along.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blueobelisk View Post
    Now, Waaldo is prepared to look for this person like Prince Charming testing everyone to see just how bad their psychological disorder is if their foot fits in the glass slipper.

  9. #3449
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    So Squadron 42 delayed until...well, delayed. Haven't we already gone through this at least twice now with this alone?
    A release date has never been given for S42, all CR said is that S42 would release in Fall 2016 at the absolute earliest, and that realistically it would be at least 2017 for a finished product.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    So they laid out what content/features they want to include in major patches, but where's the timeline? Nothing there indicates when the projects were started, when they're slated to be finished, when testing for them is scheduled to be, how far along they are etc.

    I'd assumed by timeline you meant something akin to a milestone timeline where players could loosely keep track of where things were at, pending additional delays.
    CR knows that if he gives out a specific date, people will be all over him if and inevitably when he misses a date, and as said before he demands a exceedingly high level of quality from his company. Unless it's up to his standards, it doesn't get pushed out to public, which means we wait.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by carnifex2005 View Post
    This is revolutionary! Holy crap, that's level design on a never before done scale. Now I'm going to be paying more attention to ground content.

  10. #3450
    Quote Originally Posted by Valyrian the Moofia Boss View Post

    This is revolutionary! Holy crap, that's level design on a never before done scale. Now I'm going to be paying more attention to ground content.
    Yeah, in this follow up interview done by Gamers Nexus, Erin Roberts said that they are next going to be working on realistic procedural weather.

    “But then we have cloud layers coming on, and even the clouds we have now are nowhere near what we will have, where we want a lot more substance. We're going to have weather systems, already we're working on actual procedural ways to have different weather systems and things which affect them. So when you're going on a planet, one day you might go down to do something, next day you go to that location [and] it's very dangerous because of the weather pattern coming through."

  11. #3451
    Pandaren Monk masterhorus8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carnifex2005 View Post
    Yeah, in this follow up interview done by Gamers Nexus, Erin Roberts said that they are next going to be working on realistic procedural weather.

    “But then we have cloud layers coming on, and even the clouds we have now are nowhere near what we will have, where we want a lot more substance. We're going to have weather systems, already we're working on actual procedural ways to have different weather systems and things which affect them. So when you're going on a planet, one day you might go down to do something, next day you go to that location [and] it's very dangerous because of the weather pattern coming through."
    But it's all been done before in other games, and this is just a Crysis mod! /s
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  12. #3452
    I'll wait to laud their procedural generation until it launches. I mean, everyone creamed their pants at No Man's Sky and its promise and what they showed off...until it launched and it was a massively mixed bag of some pretty neat planets/flora/fauna and a whole lot of extremely similar or painfully awkward stuff.

    Procedural generation tech is nifty, but I'm beyond skeptical at it's ability to actually create interesting and engaging content with any reliability right now. It's a nifty tool when its given strict parameters to work within (thinking a la Diablo procedurally generated maps), but I've not seen evidence that it really works on a large scale like what SC is aiming for, yet.

    Unless I'm misunderstanding how the procedural generation in SC is supposed to work.

    With regards to dates/Robert's standards, that's a double edged sword. Not having dates means you never miss them! Huzzah! But it also means that players have no idea when major features/content are planned to come out, even if it's a window with every disclaimer possible that the date may slip. In terms of quality, that's great! Yay for high quality work! But how much additional time and money is it going to cost? Will it run them over budget if he demands perfection when perfection is unreasonable? Will it continually push out milestones as he demands more and more work get put into already high quality work to make it better instead of working on other area's of the game?

    Again, I'm still pretty skeptical overall. They keep showing off pretty good looking stuff, but there are tons of gripes about the behind the scenes stuff that keep bringing out the cynic in me.

  13. #3453
    Pandaren Monk masterhorus8's Avatar
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    Here's a pretty good break down of the PG in Star Citizen.
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  14. #3454
    About two minute in, and you could literally replace "Star Citizen" with "No Man's Sky" in his narration and I'd put money on nobody being able to tell the difference. Continuing to watch...

    Yes, procedural generation can create planets based off of rulesets laid out as he describes...but that doesn't mean they're going to be interesting planets. Again, No Man's Sky. They did just that, and ended up with a huge number of bland, samey, boring planets and flora/fauna in addition to some super fucky looking plants and animals. Again, this is why while the tech is neat, it's super hard. An algorithm doesn't understand "fun", and can't replicate the kind of engaging and interesting content that can be created by actual people. At least not yet.

    He's talking about tech that only renders what's visible as if it's new? When that shit has been around for a while now, and is not related to procedural generation at all. Same for his talk about level of detail, which is similarly not remotely new tech. I'm not sure why he's connecting seemless translations to the procedural tech, though?

    His talk about the devs needing to personally handle the "important parts" like starting areas and landing points kinda highlights the need for direct developer touches on areas of the game where they want to put any kind of focus on something interesting.

    Again, once the goods are delivered I'll be hype. Though I got a giggle out of this video coming out before No Man's Sky spectacularly highlighted the flaws and shortcomings of procedural generations ability to create interesting content.

  15. #3455
    Brewmaster Darkrulerxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    About two minute in, and you could literally replace "Star Citizen" with "No Man's Sky" in his narration and I'd put money on nobody being able to tell the difference. Continuing to watch...

    Yes, procedural generation can create planets based off of rulesets laid out as he describes...but that doesn't mean they're going to be interesting planets. Again, No Man's Sky. They did just that, and ended up with a huge number of bland, samey, boring planets and flora/fauna in addition to some super fucky looking plants and animals. Again, this is why while the tech is neat, it's super hard. An algorithm doesn't understand "fun", and can't replicate the kind of engaging and interesting content that can be created by actual people. At least not yet.

    He's talking about tech that only renders what's visible as if it's new? When that shit has been around for a while now, and is not related to procedural generation at all. Same for his talk about level of detail, which is similarly not remotely new tech. I'm not sure why he's connecting seemless translations to the procedural tech, though?

    His talk about the devs needing to personally handle the "important parts" like starting areas and landing points kinda highlights the need for direct developer touches on areas of the game where they want to put any kind of focus on something interesting.

    Again, once the goods are delivered I'll be hype. Though I got a giggle out of this video coming out before No Man's Sky spectacularly highlighted the flaws and shortcomings of procedural generations ability to create interesting content.
    difference between no man's sky and SC's procedural generation is that No man's sky was random procedural generation, basically given a set of random algorithims and voila, planet.

    Star citizen's procedural generation is still being hand crafted for each individual star system and is primarily being used to be less resource intensive on user end while still creating high-fidelity places. you can't find that level of high fidelity to this type of game in any present game currently. while procedural generation has been out for a while, the level of detail being put into it has not been done before.

    "This planet is one of thousands that Cloud Imperium is creating. While No Man's Sky uses its tech to generate new planets as you travel, Star Citizen uses procedural generation to build the skeleton of specific planets before artists fill in the vital details. There are far fewer planets in Star Citizen--the studio is aiming for about 100 solar systems, each containing an average of five planets with their own moons as well--but Roberts and his team are working to ensure that each planet is worth exploring and returning to"

    the problem with no man's sky besides the bad planet generation was that there was literally nothing you can do but the few things you could. it became repetitive, boring, no missions besides reach the center....there was "too much" freedom which basically came down to, there's nothing to do thats exciting for me TO do.

    Star Citizen, from it's shown, shouldn't have that issue, chris roberts has said he expects for one system to generate up to a 1000 hours of content if one chooses to stay in there.

    as far as your previous post talking about behind the scene's drama, most of the heavy drama was dated back in 2014-2015 when it was a rough period, now it seems to be more stable so your fears should be slightly abated...still nothing wrong to be skeptical. better that than to be a die-hard fan and later find out it's never coming out.
    Last edited by Darkrulerxxx; 2016-10-12 at 07:37 AM.

  16. #3456
    Deleted
    funny as the things you can do right now in SC takes 30 mins-max 1 hour 1000 hours per system ? lol. dreams and promises of mechanics never heard of.

    125,000,000 $ , 5 years , 350 staff over 4 studios and they can't even make a FPS (Star Marine) with a FPS engine. Managerial incompetency at it's finest.

  17. #3457
    Here's a video from CitizenCon showing off the Planet Editor tools CIG use...


  18. #3458
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Didn't they hire an outside studio to make SQ42?
    I wouldn't be surprised if that team is the most competent one working on the project and their basically having to make Star Citizen from scratch, with the main studio delivering nothing noteworthy.
    The Kotaku article covered this: Chris Robert's brother, Erin, has been in the industry the entire time and is used to managing large teams of developers. (He worked on a number of popular Lego games, amongst other things) He's the one running the UK office thats in charge of SQ42. While the other offices were largely pulled together from scratch or contract work, Erin brought in a large chunk of developers from his old team. Of course a veteran lead developer with a couple dozen similarly experienced developers used to working with each other are going to be more productive out of the gate.

    And yes, due to that solid core in UK and them also getting some CryEngine devs there (and then even larger chunk of Cry devs in Germany when Crytek died and being close in time zone to them) it obviously made the most sense to consolidate a good chunk of development in EUTZ. The office in Austin and the one in the UK were spooled up around the same time, it's all from the same studio, just not the same office.

    These troubles seem very believable from the POV that they were having to design new tech while also reworking the engine to their needs while also bringing new developers and offices online. Blizzard had similar growing pains when WoW exploded in popularity in 2004—within 18 months they went from ~500 staff to over 2000. Things were very rough for awhile there.

    RE Planets and Proc. Generation:
    The developers are using it for what I would call "rapid prototyping". They can start with a certain type of base seed and roll the dice a few times to quickly come up with a rough terrain they're looking for, then dive in to generate all the POIs and fine details.
    Last edited by stellvia; 2016-10-12 at 07:34 PM.

  19. #3459
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    About two minute in, and you could literally replace "Star Citizen" with "No Man's Sky" in his narration and I'd put money on nobody being able to tell the difference. Continuing to watch...
    Sadly you are mistaken, as the procedural generation for SC is not being used to create the content, only the base of it.

  20. #3460
    Quote Originally Posted by Valyrian the Moofia Boss View Post
    Sadly you are mistaken, as the procedural generation for SC is not being used to create the content, only the base of it.
    That concerns me far less, if true. We'll see how things pan out, I guess.

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