[Megathread] Star Citizen

[kenn9530]

I guess he means that we should request for refunds because at this income-rate they have little to no incentive of actually finishing the game. They've already pre-sold the game to a lot of people and their main cash income is ships which won't be for sale anymore once the game launches. From a business-perspective, it would be stupid to not keep that boat afloat for as long as possible.

CIG is already missing out since SC is a PC-exclusive game so far. Will the game launching give them some millions from new sales? Yes, but it will be nothing like what they're making by selling ships right now. That is the cold hard truth we have to face here at this point. Star Citizen and Squadron 42 are like two major pre-order games. We've already paid for them, and once the game launches, we're not going to buy the game again. We're just getting what we've already paid for.

why don't they have no incentive to finish the game, for one this is a dream game for chris so he will definitely get the game made, the game will sell much more than what is currently backing it, also there is currently subscriber options that also generate income, it wouldn't be surprised if once the game is released it gains another 1 mill plus players, not to mention there is 2 separate games for purchase, if the subscription options have reasonable benefits for playing then that population alone will generate enough income to sustain the game and allow more content to be created.

[masterhorus8]

why don't they have no incentive to finish the game, for one this is a dream game for chris so he will definitely get the game made, the game will sell much more than what is currently backing it, also there is currently subscriber options that also generate income, it wouldn't be surprised if once the game is released it gains another 1 mill plus players, not to mention there is 2 separate games for purchase, if the subscription options have reasonable benefits for playing then that population alone will generate enough income to sustain the game and allow more content to be created.

Did they ever say what a subscription plan would give after the game is out? I had heard ideas being toss around a few years ago but hadn't heard it brought up recently at all.

[mindw0rk]

Did they ever say what a subscription plan would give after the game is out? I had heard ideas being toss around a few years ago but hadn't heard it brought up recently at all.

There wont be any sub. Its B2P game, means if you buy it you can play it

[Edge-]

There wont be any sub. Its B2P game, means if you buy it you can play it

Games can be B2P with optional subscriptions, there's no reason Star Citizen couldn't have one.

[mindw0rk]

I am saying that the game is not being innovative as it is doing nothing other games have not already done

Noone ever made a game on such scale AND visual details. There is nothing atm even close to what they are creating.

This does not address the core point - Star Citizen is being overhyped to a level which is increasingly difficult for any game to match. Maybe Star Citizen will match the hype, but that seems doubtful.

Hype doesnt come from mere words. It comes from gameplay videos and already available content. Many core features they promised are already working.

[masterhorus8]

Games can be B2P with optional subscriptions, there's no reason Star Citizen couldn't have one.

^ This. There's usually something like a certain amount of free currency a month and some cosmetic items that are included in other games.

[Darkrulerxxx]

Games can be B2P with optional subscriptions, there's no reason Star Citizen couldn't have one.

its not really a matter if CIG Could have a optional subscription, it's been stated that it wont....and for any other question it is the official position until stated otherwise.

and from what i remember in his statements that Chris Roberts said any other real world money purchases besides the game itself will be for cosmetic items only.

[Omians]

Games can be B2P with optional subscriptions, there's no reason Star Citizen couldn't have one.

ive seen no talk about subscription just a 25K purchase limit a day to a 150K maximum at any time of purchased currency.

[masterhorus8]

its not really a matter if CIG Could have a optional subscription, it's been stated that it wont....and for any other question it is the official position until stated otherwise.

and from what i remember in his statements that Chris Roberts said any other real world money purchases besides the game itself will be for cosmetic items only.

They said that it wouldn't be a subscription payment method to play. Having a subscription after launch for bonus stuff is something completely different, unless I missed the memo on no more subscriptions after launch. Not saying I'm for it, but it's not unreasonable.

[mindw0rk]

Games can be B2P with optional subscriptions, there's no reason Star Citizen couldn't have one.

I doubt they will add sub. There was never mentioning of it. Im sure they will sell cosmetic stuff tho

[Tradewind]

ArenaNet has been running GW2 without a subscription model since it launched and they still pump out frequent updates and shit loads of content just driven by cosmetic cash shop revenues as well as the box price.

I have no concerns about CIG keeping things going using an identical business model in the future.

Even if they added a monthly subscription tier, dishing out small amounts of ingame cash and/or flavour items as they do already with the existing development subscription. I see no problems with it.

[kenn9530]

Did they ever say what a subscription plan would give after the game is out? I had heard ideas being toss around a few years ago but hadn't heard it brought up recently at all.

im sure they may expand on the current 2 versions of the sub, maybe some in game benefits, they have not said anything about subs that i know of but it would make sense. It would still be B2P but a sub just gives you benefits in game, other wise it would have to be the cash shop option to help generate a little more income just like GW2 and such.

its not really a matter if CIG Could have a optional subscription, it's been stated that it wont....and for any other question it is the official position until stated otherwise.

and from what i remember in his statements that Chris Roberts said any other real world money purchases besides the game itself will be for cosmetic items only.

atm there is 2 optional subs you can do, no in game benefits on it but it could be expanded upon

[stellvia]

why don't they have no incentive to finish the game, for one this is a dream game for chris so he will definitely get the game made, the game will sell much more than what is currently backing it, also there is currently subscriber options that also generate income, it wouldn't be surprised if once the game is released it gains another 1 mill plus players, not to mention there is 2 separate games for purchase, if the subscription options have reasonable benefits for playing then that population alone will generate enough income to sustain the game and allow more content to be created.

I'm keeping my expectations down for active players on the game. I'd say 300-500k is more likely. The game will be too "engrossing" for the average player to want to sink their teeth into. It will take a lot of time and effort to do things because it seeks to actively simulate everything.

IE: Running a trade route will require buying the products, getting them all physically moved over to your docking bay, getting them all physically loaded into the ship, scanning your cargo to make sure there is no espionage, thieves, explosives, etc. Fly the entire route there, possibly deal with attacks of some sort, request landing, physically unload the cargo, etc. Refueling, maintenance, etc.

[Malibutomi]

I'm keeping my expectations down for active players on the game. I'd say 300-500k is more likely. The game will be too "engrossing" for the average player to want to sink their teeth into. It will take a lot of time and effort to do things because it seeks to actively simulate everything.

IE: Running a trade route will require buying the products, getting them all physically moved over to your docking bay, getting them all physically loaded into the ship, scanning your cargo to make sure there is no espionage, thieves, explosives, etc. Fly the entire route there, possibly deal with attacks of some sort, request landing, physically unload the cargo, etc. Refueling, maintenance, etc.

They stated you can buy in containers, and have it loaded in your ship, you don't have to carry every crate by hand.

[stellvia]

No, but they don't magically appear in your ship. You pay a fee to have NPCs load the stuff for you and it still takes time for the stuff to be loaded.

[Malibutomi]

No, but they don't magically appear in your ship. You pay a fee to have NPCs load the stuff for you and it still takes time for the stuff to be loaded.

Well it surely will take time, but if i understand it correctly, if you buy a large amount of something you can just buy it in bulk, and get it loaded in the ship(loaded as its there, not like NPC characters load 550.000 crate of handguns one by one)

[kenn9530]

No, but they don't magically appear in your ship. You pay a fee to have NPCs load the stuff for you and it still takes time for the stuff to be loaded.

may take a few minutes but by the time you have purchased everything you can fit in your ship and made your way back it should of already been loaded or at least nearly finished by then, we will probably have to physically go to where the places are to buy stuff instead of just doing everything from your ship console.

[KyrtF]

Again, go look at the mountains of information provided here and throughout the SC developer updates/forums/etc. on how instancing works in SC. Don't even mention instances again until you do because it's a complete waste of time trying to re-explain it to every person who stumbles in here spouting off some bullshit.

I have. What you describe is a process called liad balancing. But it isn't the way SC instances are designed. If it were, then there would be NO instance limit.

Publically...SC instances can handle 24 players. CIG are hoping to push that to 100 or preferably 200 players per instance.

And while there are mechanisms to hand players off between instances, what they don't do is load balance individual instances between multiple servers to bypass the instance limit.

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you know the majority of backers disagree with you right? you do realize that what you are asking for, just release some game and NOT the game CR wants, is the antithesis of going crowdfunding in the first place. let it be done with it's done. i know i want a good game as long as it's out in the next 3-4 years i am good.

And if things keep goibg the way they are, 3-4 years is probably a good estimate for when Star Citizen is likely to be released...barring something akin to them releasing a MVP.

2.6 is months late. 3.0 was supposed to be released in August and it isn't likely to be out until March.

Do I think CIG can deliver the game Chris Roberts has promised? Yes...I think it can.

But I also realise that CIG has consistently over promised and underdelivered. Chris Roberts especially appears to continually underestimate the time, work and money needed for the game.

CIG are trying to develop a game with greater scope and more features than just about any game you care to mention. And they are doing it without the proper toolkit, with less money, with fewer developers of less experience than other projects.

That they are continually running late isn't surprising. What IS surprising is that Chris Roberts keeps giving over optimistic dates and over hyping the progress.

As others have pointed out...CIG probably should have dropped CryEngine and written their own engine from scratch. They've spent substantial time and effort modifying the code they have to produce what they needed....but modifying is rarely as good as custom built. Its doubtful they can even sell or license their code as they license it themselves. They have the money and need for such an engine...so why not?

Chris Roberts also hyped up SM and promised it released almost a year ago. It still isn't out. Turns out, they had to scrap much of what they did because a lack of communication between teams meant the developed code was unusable.

Wasted money and wasted opportunities.

And while you might be willing to wait the 3 or 4 years needed to actually develop the game as promised....how many other backers feel the same way? And other games are being released which will eat into the same market and its graphical fidelity is not special anymore.

Am I prepared to wait for a good game? Personally....yes. But I'm not going to spend a penny on the game until its released.

And others aren't prepared to wait. They're getting refunds.

And while crowdfunding does free CIG from the dreaded control of the publishers, it also removes any pressure to release the game. Indeed, with CIG having a decent revenue stream simply by issuing IOUs for new ship designs, there is a strong incentive not to release at all.

I think 3.0 will be released in 2017. But it'll be months late.
I think we'll see SQ42 in 2017....but CIG will either need to spend millions on marketing it, or sacrifice some revenue potential to get a publisher involved.

Will it be any good? I hope so. But that CIG haven't yet finalised the flight model strikes me as a little worrisome.

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Noone ever made a game on such scale AND visual details. There is nothing atm even close to what they are creating.

Whatever advantage in graphics SC had in 2012 is now gone. Look at the games released this year. And graphical fidelty has NOTHING to do with the level of innovation.

SC is ambitious...not innovative.

Hype doesnt come from mere words. It comes from gameplay videos and already available content. Many core features they promised are already working.

And they are being oversold. Overhyped.

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I'm keeping my expectations down for active players on the game. I'd say 300-500k is more likely. The game will be too "engrossing" for the average player to want to sink their teeth into. It will take a lot of time and effort to do things because it seeks to actively simulate everything.

I would say that you are being far too optimistic. The game will sell a lot..primarily because it has a lot of preorders...but it'll be lucky to average anywhere near this level of players.

Put another way....the people most likely to buy this game have already done so. The players most likely to stick around and put time into the game are already doing so. You could argue that more players would joinup once the game is released.....but now you are talking about a major marketing campaign that will require many more millions of funding on order to bring those players in....

In a market where people have been burnt by NMS and where games like IW and MEA will be available and eating into the market.

Given 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 years more development, we also have to ask where games such as SWTOR or NMS or ED or EVE will be and what features they will have. Maybe they will have shut down or maybe development will be continuing. We don't know.

But if they are shut down we have to ask what makes SC so different that it is likely to succeed and if they are still active we have to ask what will make SC stand out from the crowd.

Nothing here is really insurmountable given time, effort and money. But time....SC alone likely requires another 3 years, maybe more unless CIG cut out a lot of features, ships and systems to be added later. That might happen...it would be CIG releasing their MVP instead of a fully featured and complete at launch game. Time requires money....and lots of it. People keep saying development is expensive. And that doesn't include whatever marketing costs CIG is planning on. And marketing a game like SC and SQ42 is likely to be expensive. Spending more on marketing than on development is not unheard of for AAA titles. Not to mention the costs for the back office servers hosting and running everything. Yes...private servers are supposedly planned but that's also breaking up the player base as you can never let those accounts into the main universe. Not to mention, such servers could never hope to offer the same experience or scope as the dedicated servers and bandwidth would be far out of any players price range given what CIG are offering.

Its easy to see this game shifting a million or more units in the first month of sales...because those are already bought by the backers. But the game has those backers now. And how many turn up on the servers on a regular basis?

[Malibutomi]

And if things keep goibg the way they are, 3-4 years is probably a good estimate for when Star Citizen is likely to be released...barring something akin to them releasing a MVP.

Which would make it 7-8 years, considering other games dev time, and that CIG is making 2 games, a single player and a complex MMO that is about right.

2.6 is months late. 3.0 was supposed to be released in August and it isn't likely to be out until March.

Wait the same 3.0 which we first heard of on GamesCom? How is that supposed to be released in August?

CIG are trying to develop a game with greater scope and more features than just about any game you care to mention. And they are doing it without the proper toolkit, with less money, with fewer developers of less experience than other projects.

They made all the tools up until now, that's why they picked up pace, also they don't really have less money and developers than other big games now, including many of the industries most experienced veterans (especially the Crytek guys)

As others have pointed out...CIG probably should have dropped CryEngine and written their own engine from scratch. They've spent substantial time and effort modifying the code they have to produce what they needed....but modifying is rarely as good as custom built. Its doubtful they can even sell or license their code as they license it themselves. They have the money and need for such an engine...so why not?

Which would have taken 2-3 years, so it would be about the same except they would have almost nothing to show, as they couldn't make things like PU, or AC while the engine is not ready.

Chris Roberts also hyped up SM and promised it released almost a year ago. It still isn't out. Turns out, they had to scrap much of what they did because a lack of communication between teams meant the developed code was unusable.

This was known for like a year now, that they couldn't use Illfonics work. Also i think as FPS was in the PU they didn't want to make SM at all, as its main target was to test FPS combat. I think they only made it, because people constantly asked for it.

And while you might be willing to wait the 3 or 4 years needed to actually develop the game as promised....how many other backers feel the same way? And other games are being released which will eat into the same market and its graphical fidelity is not special anymore.

Most of the other backer. The ones asking for refund are the ones who threw money irresponsibly at the project, not just the amount they are willing to lose.

And while crowdfunding does free CIG from the dreaded control of the publishers, it also removes any pressure to release the game. Indeed, with CIG having a decent revenue stream simply by issuing IOUs for new ship designs, there is a strong incentive not to release at all.

Yeah because 4 studios and 370employees sounds like a big cashgrab....well it is not.

Whatever advantage in graphics SC had in 2012 is now gone. Look at the games released this year. And graphical fidelty has NOTHING to do with the level of innovation.

Yeah we have seen, SC looks much better than the cutscenes from IW (which turned out to be a big flop)

Put another way....the people most likely to buy this game have already done so. The players most likely to stick around and put time into the game are already doing so. You could argue that more players would joinup once the game is released.....but now you are talking about a major marketing campaign that will require many more millions of funding on order to bring those players in....

That's not correct, i could point a lot of guys (you can find them at any forums) who stated that they will not give money to crowdfunding for various reasons, but they will buy it when it will be released.

In a market where people have been burnt by NMS and where games like IW and MEA will be available and eating into the market.

You serious? IW eating SCs market? They are not even the same genre. IW is a rail shooter, with horrible graphics at soome places, and as i stated above it was a flop. MEA we will see, it is marketed as open world, but i think it will be as open world as ME1, so you can go here and there, but it evolves around the story, and then it ends. Again not the same genre (and i hope they will work a bit more on graphics as well, as the trailer looked laughable at some points)

But if they are shut down we have to ask what makes SC so different that it is likely to succeed and if they are still active we have to ask what will make SC stand out from the crowd.

What makes SC different is the old school approach, the attention to little details which todays rushed out games are lacking. The ability to find some hidden things here and there. Also the thing that it will be more complex than the mentioned titles, and gives a lot of playstyles in one package.

And that doesn't include whatever marketing costs CIG is planning on. And marketing a game like SC and SQ42 is likely to be expensive. Spending more on marketing than on development is not unheard of for AAA titles. Not to mention the costs for the back office servers hosting and running everything.

Man everyone who is not living under a rock in the middle of the desert heard about SQ42/SC already, there will be a big hype around the release, they don't really need expensive marketing. Maybe a few YT ads, and to showcase at E3 and other expos.

[Tradewind]

I have. What you describe is a process called liad balancing. But it isn't the way SC instances are designed. If it were, then there would be NO instance limit.

Publically...SC instances can handle 24 players. CIG are hoping to push that to 100 or preferably 200 players per instance.

And while there are mechanisms to hand players off between instances, what they don't do is load balance individual instances between multiple servers to bypass the instance limit.

You are so wrong it hurts...but what else is new.