[Megathread] Star Citizen

[stellvia]

Just throwing this out there: If you don't find someone's posts relevant, keep it to yourself and/or block them. Tired of seeing 1 person's post devolve into 3 pages of meta shitposting. Nobody cares for you repeating for the Nth time why you hate the game. We get it. We've heard it. Repeatedly. If you don't have (new) constructive criticism to make, just don't post at all.

[Odeezee]

this is really dope tech coming outta Foundry 42 (DE) and Sasha in particular along with Gareth outta Foundry 42 (UK)



if modding is ever realized and they give players this SolEd tool for their private servers, the possibilities would be pretty amazing.

[Majestic12]

Schedule update: Another delay for 3.0 and the disappointment is starting to bubble into anger again.

3.0 won't be out this year, that's for sure. If this isn't proof that you can't trust Chris then I don't know what is. I'm not going to bother watching his presentations anymore because they're just full of shit.

[apelsinjuice]

2017, game is delayed by years and people still getting hyped by some pictures from a tech demo.

[Majestic12]

What hype? Genuinely curious where it is these days.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen..._disingenuous/

OP in that makes some good points.

Derek Smart was right about many of the issues he could foresee. The real issue is how Chris & co decided to communicate regarding the game. Derek Smart really succeeded in poisoning the water to the point where Chris always pretends like everything is almost ready and will not discuss concerns. He is trying his best to hide them because he doesn't want them in Derek's hands.

[Edge-]

Derek Smart was right about many of the issues he could foresee. The real issue is how Chris & co decided to communicate regarding the game. Derek Smart really succeeded in poisoning the water to the point where Chris always pretends like everything is almost ready and will not discuss concerns. He is trying his best to hide them because he doesn't want them in Derek's hands.

Why the fuck would Chris or anyone else give Smart any consideration? Smart is a shit stirrer, and while he can rile up a bunch of idiots usually he's not worth the attention or time, and he thrives when you pay him any mind whatsoever.

I hope this isn't a roundabout way of trying to place any blame for CIG's problems with constant delays on Smart...

[masterhorus8]

One thing I read a while back was that they failed to take into account Hofstadter's Law when coming up with these dates, which, to be perfectly honest, is kind of retarded. They honestly shouldn't have even given some of these things potential dates until they had a handle on the actual complicated things. How can they put a date on things that are 100% brand new code butchering that they haven't already finished?

[masterhorus8]

I'm just of the opinion that they should not be consistently throwing out release dates or schedules if they fail to meet them constantly.

I can see them throwing out some for generic things, such as when they're finishing a ship (which they do have down now), although it's a bit bland. Those kinds of things they can (maybe? who knows...) actually have reasonable dates for. But yeah, these new features that are being added into (formerly) CryEngine/Lumberyard are too unpredictable.

Back when CR was giving out potential release time-frames for 3.0, it made me cringe a bit.

[karumayu]

I can understand a lot of people want this game and it certainly appeals to many segments of the gamers, but what will actually be available at launch? Is there a story or plot to the game? I understand that it's going to be massive in scope, but is it going to be populated enough with interesting content?

I can see the appeal of riding a almost full scale planet or fly in a galaxy, but if it's devoid of any interesting or meaningful interactions, I just don't see how it will sustain the players after the initial curiosity.

[Post]

I can see the appeal of riding a almost full scale planet or fly in a galaxy, but if it's devoid of any interesting or meaningful interactions, I just don't see how it will sustain the players after the initial curiosity.

No Man's Sky is a great example of this IMO.

[masterhorus8]

I can understand a lot of people want this game and it certainly appeals to many segments of the gamers, but what will actually be available at launch? Is there a story or plot to the game? I understand that it's going to be massive in scope, but is it going to be populated enough with interesting content?

I can see the appeal of riding a almost full scale planet or fly in a galaxy, but if it's devoid of any interesting or meaningful interactions, I just don't see how it will sustain the players after the initial curiosity.

BoredGamer is the best person to go over these things.

I've been lazy and posting videos like this instead of explaining it myself, but it is a lot to go through.

[Rennadrel]

Why the fuck would Chris or anyone else give Smart any consideration? Smart is a shit stirrer, and while he can rile up a bunch of idiots usually he's not worth the attention or time, and he thrives when you pay him any mind whatsoever.

I hope this isn't a roundabout way of trying to place any blame for CIG's problems with constant delays on Smart...

Derek Smart is to gaming what Donald Trump is to business. A loud mouthed asshole who has done nothing but get himself into trouble for his own ineptitude while he shits on other people.

[Majestic12]

Why the fuck would Chris or anyone else give Smart any consideration? Smart is a shit stirrer, and while he can rile up a bunch of idiots usually he's not worth the attention or time, and he thrives when you pay him any mind whatsoever.

I hope this isn't a roundabout way of trying to place any blame for CIG's problems with constant delays on Smart...

Why whould Chris or anyone care? I'm glad you said that, because they shouldn't have. That is however diametrically opposite of what they decided to do. CIG did several mistakes:

1. They decided to, based on a single article Derek wrote, to put the spotlight on him instead of just ignoring him by actually addressing him and then refunding him like they couldn't handle someone criticising the game and/or the company.

2. After the Escapist article, Chris decided to take the fight directly to Derek, and names him by name in a long rant 5 times which frankly came across as very unprofessional.
(This rant used to be here but very recently was removed: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/c...o-The-Escapist )
Reddit blows up to the point where the mods have to ban the topic of Derek Smart because it was like 80% of the sub, at worst. That is how much attention Derek got thanks to CIG.

After this, it was personal between them. Derek decided to spend all of his time locating issues with Star Citizen and Chris & CIG slowly started nutting up. Communication really started suffering, and devolved to what we have now: Chris will look everybody in the eye during an event and say "Everything is fine guys, 3.0 is so close to being ready!" when it was in the early stages if anything.

The truth is that Derek Smart succeeded, in part thanks to CIG. His name is forever tied to the SC project and he poisoned the well to the point where you can't voice criticism without being associated with him or goons. Chris is trying to keep the project together by keeping quiet about setbacks. What's left in the middle? The backers, who ultimately are the one who suffer because they can't even trust what CIG says.

Let's be truthful here and consider this scenario:
Chris walks up on stage and says 3.0(in a much larger scope than it is today) is close to completion last year(when it is not).
Either he:
1. Truthfully believes that it is close to completion. (He is incompetent)
2. Decieves the backers. (He is a liar)

Which is worse? I don't even know, but it has to be one of the two. I think it's number two, partially because of sales and because of Derek.

The ultimate truth is that CIG cares about what Derek says, or they would never have responded to him. I think they fucked up there pretty hard. They should never have given him air, light, or anything of the sort. Now we're in this situation.

It's pretty ironic that Chris in his response to Derek and The Escapist said: "Star Citizen will speak for itself". I guess it kind of does? A "game" run by a company that feeds their backers so much crap during events and can't be honest about anything.

- - - Updated - - -

Addition: Even Batgirl is now turning against CIG's practices and made a long video about it.

[Tierbook]

I can understand a lot of people want this game and it certainly appeals to many segments of the gamers, but what will actually be available at launch? Is there a story or plot to the game? I understand that it's going to be massive in scope, but is it going to be populated enough with interesting content?

I can see the appeal of riding a almost full scale planet or fly in a galaxy, but if it's devoid of any interesting or meaningful interactions, I just don't see how it will sustain the players after the initial curiosity.

There will be a PU which will be pretty similar to EvE though rather than scale it will aim for detail, there will be a Single player game that's basically separate unless you backed early in which case you got a copy of both for what is now the price of each one.

[KyrtF]

Why the fuck would Chris or anyone else give Smart any consideration? Smart is a shit stirrer, and while he can rile up a bunch of idiots usually he's not worth the attention or time, and he thrives when you pay him any mind whatsoever.

I hope this isn't a roundabout way of trying to place any blame for CIG's problems with constant delays on Smart...

My own opinion is that Derek Smart is right about many of the issues facing Star Citizen.

But that he also has his own agenda.

IMO....there is nothing ground breaking or revolutionary about Star Citizen. Not even its scope. Its a space sim with an add on FPS game.

But I believe it has problems.

Many of these are technical and...I believe...caused mostly by two factors.

One...the rapid expansion in what CIG wanted to get from the game, what they wanted it to achieve. Feature bloat.
Two....the decision to adapt an existing game engine rather than create a custom engine for the game, followed by the decision to use CryEngi e which, on the face of it, seems ill suited to a game like SC.

Chris Roberts own inexperience at modern designs also is a problem IMO. I think half his problem is that he thinks this is still the 90s so he continually underestimates the costs, timescales and complexities of modern game design.

Smart knows enough about the industry to point out legitimate challenges to SC. But he also seems to suffer from the "If I couldn't get a solution to this, noone can" syndrome. And he isn't shy about using his platform to push his own games.

But neither does that make him wrong.

Does CIG pay him much attention...I would hope not. But that doesn't mean they don't. And in the past, they have.

Is Derek Smart right?

I don't believe the accusations that SC is a scam have any basis in fact. I believe CIG are working hard to create the game they say they are.

But they aren't helped by announcing dates they then walk back from, fron announcing features they then cut or by pushing a funding model that rewards procrastination and bloat.

Their financials also don't look great, at least to the layman. One studio taking half their income? Taking a risky loan without any apparent justification? These may be normal or innocent...but they don't look good.

SCs band of stalwart supporters also are not helping. Far from it....I think many of them ARE suffering from the sunken cost delusion and lashing out at any criticism, justified or not.

But again...Smarts experience gives him a degree of insight and I think much of what he says is valid. But again, he also has an agenda and part of that is pushing his own game (and part of it is is simply wanting to be right)

Do I think SC is in trouble? Unfortunately...I think it is. I think it is years away ftom being ready. I predicted in January that a September launch of 3.0 wasn't impossible, and I wasn't far off. Of course, I suggested June as most likely....but even with the August release, it looks like we are getting a very cut down version of what was originally promised last year.

That suggests the possibility the game is further behind schedule than I thought...3.0 will be eight months late in August. And that a cut down version. By the time we get everything promised for 3.0, it might be a year or more behind schedule. We certainly ain't going to get 4.0 this year and 3.0 seems likely to need a couple more point releases to bring everything else in.

This is an Alpha so this is to be expected....but at the same time, CIG ***CANNOT*** keep making this type of mistake. They cannot keep promising features and then delivering late and/or not at all.

So are CIG in trouble? Yes.

But it isn't a scam

IMO....its a largely inexperienced team with a large turnover.
Its bosses making inexplicable decisions such as not developing their own engine.
Its in the way they communicate...promising features they can't deliver by deadlines they can't meet.
Its in the way money has seemingly been wasted and squandered.
Its in the feature bloat and lack of communication between teams

Now...maybe in reality things are going much better than they appear. Maybe.

But all of this avoids the big question.

Will SC ever be "released"?

I think...if SC can keep the money flowing...yes.

WITH the proviso that the game released won't be the game people are expecting. I think it'll be released later than people think, and will be much more restrictive and compact. Fewer features...smaller maps.

But is any of this due to Derek Smart? That'd be giving him too much credit. Smart simply knows enough about the industry to point out the challenges involved and highlight where CIG, for whatever reason, might be holding back. CIGs tendency to overpraise their accomplishments hurts them here as well.

But I think CIGs problems are largely of their own making.

On the plus side...

Nothing Star Citizen seems to offer or want to do appears to be technically impossible. While there remain questions about issues such as performance, bandwidth utilisation and the like, the game itself appears feasible. Given enough time and money...there isn't anything promised that seems technically impossible to implement or add to the game.

Whether the game will work is another question. For example, 1000 player instances sound great but most games set lower limits because of the bandwidth considerations in marking the position, speed and direction of each unit, keep track of their actions and responses, as well as track the various bullets and missiles and signals each player generates or could generate....and then share that information with all 1000 plauers several times a second.

[karumayu]

BoredGamer is the best person to go over these things.
(video)
I've been lazy and posting videos like this instead of explaining it myself, but it is a lot to go through.

Thanks for the video. It did explain a lot about the scope of this game.

[Rennadrel]

It takes longer to build an entire engine from the ground up and finding those kind of people is just as difficult, than modifying an existing one. Crytek happening to go tits up was just a matter of luck for them, because they'd probably be even further behind trying to fix all the engine issues. Not to mention server side authentication and all of that takes time to hash out when you are designing a combat system.

[Odeezee]

haha, talk about disingenuous people who lack intellectual honesty.

"hey there is this game called Star Citizen looking for backers to help crowd-fund it so that they can take their time to build the best game they can, let me go and support it."

"so CIG have put out a release schedule where they say that these are just estimates and will let us know of any blockers they come across weekly so we know how things are progressing for update 3.0."

"wow, CIG keeps missing their estimated completion dates for the 3.0 update and are keeping me informed of the blockers they are encountering. hey i know how i can help, let me go and complain about how they keep missing these dates they said were estimates, even though they have to R&D most of their solutions as they are pioneering tech not seen in gaming before due to the scope and fidelity of the game! that will surely make them complete the game faster, then i can complain about how much the update sucks and is really buggy, unpolished (even though it's still only in alpha stage of development), half-baked then complain about why they did not take their time like they said they would as it would have been better than releasing it too early in this state."

makes sense, if you completely forget about why they wanted crowd-funding in the first place (fyi, so they could take their time to get it done right and best and not just fast). smh. /facepalm
yes, i want to be playing update 3.0 but i do not assume i know better than the devs creating the game just because i am impatient or just want to troll. you knew that delays would be a part of the process from the jump, you literally have no one to blame but yourselves for your own impatience. and this is why we cannot have constructive discussions, coz people do not shy away from lying and misrepresenting information to push their warped narrative.

[Tierbook]

From what I've heard 3.0 has all the systems ready it's just bug fixing at this point. Which I'm fine with, we can either have a buggy mess now and a longer period of them trying to fix bugs or wait till it's actually done and playable.

[masterhorus8]

From what I've heard 3.0 has all the systems ready it's just bug fixing at this point. Which I'm fine with, we can either have a buggy mess now and a longer period of them trying to fix bugs or wait till it's actually done and playable.

Some bugs can be pretty game breaking and keeping said feature from working in the first place, effectively meaning that it's not ready. (Just playing devil's advocate.)