[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Rennadrel]

It takes longer to build an entire engine from the ground up and finding those kind of people is just as difficult, than modifying an existing one. Crytek happening to go tits up was just a matter of luck for them, because they'd probably be even further behind trying to fix all the engine issues. Not to mention server side authentication and all of that takes time to hash out when you are designing a combat system.

[Odeezee]

haha, talk about disingenuous people who lack intellectual honesty.

"hey there is this game called Star Citizen looking for backers to help crowd-fund it so that they can take their time to build the best game they can, let me go and support it."

"so CIG have put out a release schedule where they say that these are just estimates and will let us know of any blockers they come across weekly so we know how things are progressing for update 3.0."

"wow, CIG keeps missing their estimated completion dates for the 3.0 update and are keeping me informed of the blockers they are encountering. hey i know how i can help, let me go and complain about how they keep missing these dates they said were estimates, even though they have to R&D most of their solutions as they are pioneering tech not seen in gaming before due to the scope and fidelity of the game! that will surely make them complete the game faster, then i can complain about how much the update sucks and is really buggy, unpolished (even though it's still only in alpha stage of development), half-baked then complain about why they did not take their time like they said they would as it would have been better than releasing it too early in this state."

makes sense, if you completely forget about why they wanted crowd-funding in the first place (fyi, so they could take their time to get it done right and best and not just fast). smh. /facepalm
yes, i want to be playing update 3.0 but i do not assume i know better than the devs creating the game just because i am impatient or just want to troll. you knew that delays would be a part of the process from the jump, you literally have no one to blame but yourselves for your own impatience. and this is why we cannot have constructive discussions, coz people do not shy away from lying and misrepresenting information to push their warped narrative.

[Tierbook]

From what I've heard 3.0 has all the systems ready it's just bug fixing at this point. Which I'm fine with, we can either have a buggy mess now and a longer period of them trying to fix bugs or wait till it's actually done and playable.

[masterhorus8]

From what I've heard 3.0 has all the systems ready it's just bug fixing at this point. Which I'm fine with, we can either have a buggy mess now and a longer period of them trying to fix bugs or wait till it's actually done and playable.

Some bugs can be pretty game breaking and keeping said feature from working in the first place, effectively meaning that it's not ready. (Just playing devil's advocate.)

[masterhorus8]

Never ever say "this will be ready then".

TBF, this was never explicitly said, aside from CR opening his mouth last year. These schedules are internal schedules and estimations. Yes, it is intentional phrasing, but it is intentional for a reason. It is more of a "we want this to be ready by then." I'm not trying to defend this lack of awareness for problems in their schedule (if anything, as you responded to earlier, I'm annoyed at their lack of it), but they did pick those words and have the disclaimer there.

[Majestic12]

haha, talk about disingenuous people who lack intellectual honesty.

"hey there is this game called Star Citizen looking for backers to help crowd-fund it so that they can take their time to build the best game they can, let me go and support it."

"so CIG have put out a release schedule where they say that these are just estimates and will let us know of any blockers they come across weekly so we know how things are progressing for update 3.0."

"wow, CIG keeps missing their estimated completion dates for the 3.0 update and are keeping me informed of the blockers they are encountering. hey i know how i can help, let me go and complain about how they keep missing these dates they said were estimates, even though they have to R&D most of their solutions as they are pioneering tech not seen in gaming before due to the scope and fidelity of the game! that will surely make them complete the game faster, then i can complain about how much the update sucks and is really buggy, unpolished (even though it's still only in alpha stage of development), half-baked then complain about why they did not take their time like they said they would as it would have been better than releasing it too early in this state."

makes sense, if you completely forget about why they wanted crowd-funding in the first place (fyi, so they could take their time to get it done right and best and not just fast). smh. /facepalm
yes, i want to be playing update 3.0 but i do not assume i know better than the devs creating the game just because i am impatient or just want to troll. you knew that delays would be a part of the process from the jump, you literally have no one to blame but yourselves for your own impatience. and this is why we cannot have constructive discussions, coz people do not shy away from lying and misrepresenting information to push their warped narrative.

You can say that all you like, but the reality is that backer patience is not infinite. If 3.0 does not hit by the end of the year, you can expect a much bigger ragefest than last year.

Chris lied last year and people are starting to wake up. He has zero economic incentive to actually finish the game. That's "intellectual honesty" for you.

If anybody has a warped narrative It's you, continously throwing insults to anybody who dares question CIG while refusing to call Chris out. Sunken cost fallacy at its finest.

[KyrtF]

TBF, this was never explicitly said, aside from CR opening his mouth last year. These schedules are internal schedules and estimations. Yes, it is intentional phrasing, but it is intentional for a reason. It is more of a "we want this to be ready by then." I'm not trying to defend this lack of awareness for problems in their schedule (if anything, as you responded to earlier, I'm annoyed at their lack of it), but they did pick those words and have the disclaimer there.

And CR saying it was a huge mistake.

Whether he meant to or not, he gave the impression that work on 3.0 had started and was well on its way to completion. He had slides showung what it was to contain. He had a road map for development. Ams he had a date when he hoped it would be ready.

Turns out that CIG wouldn't even devide what they were going for in 3.0 until months later. That 3.0 hadn't even started development when CR went on stage. That it wouldn't even start working on it until well after the date CR mentioned.

Which brings us to now, when 3.0 is 8 months "late" and even then seems likely that it'll have several key features cut so it'll meet the release date...a release date that seems more likely to be picked because of its marketing opportunities than because 3.0 is "ready".

CIG promised to be "open".

But....IMO....they aren't being really, truly open. Having a video team going around creating a Making Of video isn't being open. Having weekly or monthly chats or a video series isn't being open.

From my pov, CIG being "open" is better described as a sophisticated marketing campaign, used more to push sales and help draw in funding than give us any meaningful information about how things are progressing.

I don't need or expect or even want CIG to give release dates. Frankly, given the debacle that surrounds CRs provided release date, they shouldn't be doing so anyway. Not at this stage.

This is an Alpha. Things are going to slide. Be delayed. And working to a "release" date picked for marketing strikes me as simply putting unnecessary pressure on the dev teams while raising unnecessary expectations amongst the player base.

If CIG were to be open, then an in depth report of the progress to date produced every quarter would be more than enough.

CR going on stage, giving us features for a patch that CIG hadn't laid out, and a release date for a project they hadn't even started was not CIG fulfilling its promise to be open. This was CR and CIG using the pretence of keeping us up to date as a marketing gimmick to keep excitement up and get us to buy more ships and feeding us FALSE information to do so.

IF CR truly believed 3.0 could be laid out and developed by December last year, when 2.6 hadn't been finished and CIG hadn't even created its own feature list for 3.0...then he's incompetent.

IF CR knew 3.0 wasn't going to be ready....then he provided us all with information he must have known was false, given us a roadmap he must have known was irrelevant, given us a date he knew could not be met. In which case the only conclusion is that none of the information CIG and CR provides to us from any source can be trusted. And that isn't being open with us.

I'm hoping CIG will sort out their troubles. I'm hoping things at CIG are far better than they appear to be. I really want to play this game and I'm not going to complain about missed release dates or missing features in an Alpha patch.

But I do think CIG should be lambasted from the heavens for the way they have communicated with their backers. For the use of what appears to be false information. For mixing a promise to be open and using it as marketing.

If CR had stood up on stage and not given us a release date, and been a bit more accurate about what those rough plans for 3.0 entailed...would he be getting criticised now? Probably not.

Instead...he drove a marketing campaign that brought in a lot of cash and sparked a backlash that seems to have led to many backers dropping out and requesting their money back.

So...to be honest...I don't really care about the disclaimer. I care that CR went on stage and, whether he meant to or not, effectively lied to us. I don't mind or care about feature lists or release dates for an Alpha.

I care when the head of the company goes public with what turns out to be false information....not wrong, but false...simply to ramp up excitement and bring in money.

Nor do I think thise schedules are worth the trouble. They're worthless. In some ways worse than useless...detrimental. For one....they keep changing. Thats to be expected. Alpha stage. Mote importantly...they can't be trusted. The head of company went on stage and fed us what turned out to be false info. What makes people think this schedule can be trusted?

Which is the real problem. CR opening his mouth last year was bad but the issue is that...for many backers who have pulled out....he destroyed the trust they had with the company.

I want CIG to succeed. Im hoping SC is the game they have promised to deliver...the game they say they want to deliver.

But being blunt.....games like Elite and NMS are leaving SC in the dust and they are doing so with only a fraction of the budget and team size. Those games have their own problems....but they are still racing ahead in many ways.

SC...when it is released in 2021 or whenever...will have to compete with those games as they are then. But SC won't even feel new to many, won't have that new release sheen. Which is why it is important CIG get things right now.

And they aren't.

[masterhorus8]

It seems that you didn't read what I said or at least didn't understand it.

But being blunt.....games like Elite and NMS are leaving SC in the dust and they are doing so with only a fraction of the budget and team size.

And fucking lol?

[Edge-]

Skimmed through the "update" and man...that kinda smacks of BS. They talk about how expanded 3.0 is compared to last year, but neglect to mention all that remains unchanged or was cut/downscaled.

And even then, they have serious project management issues if homeboy is to be believed. 3.0 got delayed for a year because its scope ballooned so much? 3.0 is a milestone release, you lock that shit down and deliver it, then expand. If your milestones are constantly pushing out because you're constantly expanding their scope, then you've got bigger project management issues. That shit would never fly with a publisher, they crack on on that kind of stuff extremely quickly because it leads to longterm issues with the title - both in terms of timelines and budgets. But here CIG is, using it as an excuse (and a poor one) for the delays.

And if the fundamental tech is causing the delays, then the scope is irrelevant anyways because that tech would be a problem anyways.

They need to seriously sit down and take a look at how they project and manage their estimated delivery timelines, because there is clearly an issue somewhere. Hopefully it's just with their creation of timelines and not with the production end of things, as that's far more difficult to fix, but they should not be so consistently missing their estimated delivery dates on features/content, especially by upwards of a full year.

[Cyclone Jack]

3.0 never should have been announced for last year, seeing as they hadn't even started working on it yet, and still needed to finish up 2.6 at the time (which was already delayed). In fact, 3.0 releasing last year would have been literally impossible, seeing as most of the tech wasn't even in place until 2nd quarter this year. The August date has been a much better estimate, and getting pushed a few weeks here or there wouldn't be a big deal. However, since CR opened his mouth and lied his ass off on the 2016 date for 3.0, people are looking at it as an 8 month delay, instead of a few weeks delay.

The main issue is with CR himself. He shouldn't be allowed to give release dates. Not only has his dates been wrong, they have been grossly wrong.

That's not to say I'm against the project. In fact, I have a Cutlass and I'm looking forward to 3.0. I appreciate the time and effort the teams have put into the game thus far, and looking at all of the tech going into 3.0 I've been quite impressed actually. I just want them to put a gag on CR.

[Orange Joe]

But being blunt.....games like Elite and NMS are leaving SC in the dust and they are doing so with only a fraction of the budget and team size. Those games have their own problems....but they are still racing ahead in many ways.

I own elite dangerous. SC already has more content than elite......

[Majestic12]

I own elite dangerous. SC already has more content than elite......

I'll just call flat BS on that. ED blows SC out of the water just by the fact that it is not a buggy incomplete mess and it also has multicrew etc.

Even IF 3.0 would hit tomorrow, have fun with 15-20 FPS if even that. SC is failing hard and only people in true denial won't acknowledge the problems.

[Tierbook]

I'll just call flat BS on that. ED blows SC out of the water just by the fact that it is not a buggy incomplete mess and it also has multicrew etc.

Even IF 3.0 would hit tomorrow, have fun with 15-20 FPS if even that. SC is failing hard and only people in true denial won't acknowledge the problems.

From what I've seen ED seems to basically be NMS with good graphics and less interactivity.

[stellvia]

At this point they need to stop with this whole "schedule" and giving out any form of release date. Just do a development update..

To clarify: The schedule was posted in response to backers wanting more transparency. It's also not a form of release date, merely a rundown of where things stand at that moment.

I make no excuses for CR running his mouth with patently impossible initial release window estimates, however.

[Orange Joe]

I'll just call flat BS on that. ED blows SC out of the water just by the fact that it is not a buggy incomplete mess and it also has multicrew etc.

Even IF 3.0 would hit tomorrow, have fun with 15-20 FPS if even that. SC is failing hard and only people in true denial won't acknowledge the problems.

Call bullshit all you want. how about we compare content.


Elite dangerous: Space exploration and planetary exploration. pvp if you can get in the same instance as other people Thats pretty much it.

Star citizen: Arena commander: dog fighting module to practice dog fighting
Star Marine: FPS module
Area 18: Cityscape to explore and interact with other people
Persistent Universe: limited atm but essentially all of what ED is just in a smaller area for now. (actually more since you can leave your ship and engage in fps combat)



as for ED not being buggy....... lmfao!!!!!!

[1001]

Call bullshit all you want. how about we compare content.


Elite dangerous: Space exploration and planetary exploration. pvp if you can get in the same instance as other people Thats pretty much it.

Star citizen: Arena commander: dog fighting module to practice dog fighting
Star Marine: FPS module
Area 18: Cityscape to explore and interact with other people
Persistent Universe: limited atm but essentially all of what ED is just in a smaller area for now. (actually more since you can leave your ship and engage in fps combat)



as for ED not being buggy....... lmfao!!!!!!

Absolute bullshit, talk about selling the other short...

Elite has a whole variety of things to do,
Ship progression, Pilot Federation progression, Superpower progression, Engineers, trading, exploration, smuggling, mission running, chained missions, various discoveries to find, ie Mega Ships, Thargoids, NPC crew members, multicrew and on and on.

[jcf190]

Call bullshit all you want. how about we compare content.


Elite dangerous: Space exploration and planetary exploration. pvp if you can get in the same instance as other people Thats pretty much it.

Star citizen: Arena commander: dog fighting module to practice dog fighting
Star Marine: FPS module
Area 18: Cityscape to explore and interact with other people
Persistent Universe: limited atm but essentially all of what ED is just in a smaller area for now. (actually more since you can leave your ship and engage in fps combat)



as for ED not being buggy....... lmfao!!!!!!

I guess we're ignoring the fact that Elite is a game you can buy and play while SC is not. How can you say a game has content when it's still in alpha testing?

[zealo]

Call bullshit all you want. how about we compare content.


Elite dangerous: Space exploration and planetary exploration. pvp if you can get in the same instance as other people Thats pretty much it.

Star citizen: Arena commander: dog fighting module to practice dog fighting
Star Marine: FPS module
Area 18: Cityscape to explore and interact with other people
Persistent Universe: limited atm but essentially all of what ED is just in a smaller area for now. (actually more since you can leave your ship and engage in fps combat)



as for ED not being buggy....... lmfao!!!!!!

As far as content goes what SC currently has is nothing more than an alpha testing bed for mechanics.

I know they've been doing a lot of work to get CryEngine to do what they want under the hood so far, but there's not much content to speak off in the live version of Star Citizen yet.

It'll eventually get there once they get multiple fully sized star systems out, and and in game economy systems can start rolling once mining and freight transporting etc starts getting introduced, which will also drive piracy and the need for bounty hunters and mercenaries etc but it'd be a stretch to say that it's there yet.

[Majestic12]

Call bullshit all you want. how about we compare content.


Elite dangerous: Space exploration and planetary exploration. pvp if you can get in the same instance as other people Thats pretty much it.

Let's fucking go.

Arena Commander: Fly around and shoot things.
Star Marine: Run around and shoot things.
ArcCorp: Walk around and interact with people.
Persistent Universe: Do all of them on a bigger map.

ED: All of the above minus FPS, functioning persistent universe, functioning actual game mechanics, functioning economy, various progression systems.

By the way, your description of Elite Dangerous is precisely how Star Citizen will be. Star Citizen will be instanced to hell, they can't even stabilize things as it is in terms of performance.

Star Citizen is not even a game.

So yeah, you lose.

[masterhorus8]

Star Citizen will be instanced to hell, they can't even stabilize things as it is in terms of performance.

Try harder.

You're mostly right about ED vs SC, atm. But god DAMN, is your hate boner for SC hard.