[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Majestic12]

He is just funny.
If it's about comparing SC to other game it's just an alpha while the others are complete games.
If it's about performance or bugs, alpha state doesn't count, and CIG surely won't improve on stability and performance as development progresses.

I honestly can't tell whether you think ED has more to do seeing as you stated all the things SC has that ED doesn't..... You're also comparing a released game to an Alpha.....

Why are you comparing a release game to an Alpha?

I mean I'm not fond of SC and some of the stuff that is going on there but this is really grasping at straws.

Are you guys for real? Orange Joe started this discussion, I reply and all of you jump on me instead of him.

I own elite dangerous. SC already has more content than elite......

Call bullshit all you want. how about we compare content.

That's what he said. Get off my back and question the Star Citizen fan who brought it up instead of me just because I'm against CIG and Chris.

I swear, you guys are displaying a serious lack of reason and/or reality to the point where I have to show you what the hell people in your camp say and why I'm responding to it. Get real.

- - - Updated - - -

You were bitching about the lack of performance of ALPHA. This just shows how mentally unhinged you are and how little your opinion matters about SC.

Yeah, because the guy wanted to compare ED with SC in terms of actual gameplay and content.

You're not as smart as you think you are, masterhorus. It's actually quite hilarious; I'm sure somebody will do a study related to psychology once SC has failed. You'll be a fine candidate for that in terms of blind fanboyism and the refusal to call your own guys out.

You're like odeezee, who randomly shows up, throws namecalling in there(to feel better about himself) and then disappears again. You have nothing of substance and are just displaying cultlike behaviour.

[masterhorus8]

Yeah, because the guy wanted to compare ED with SC in terms of actual gameplay and content.

What does

Star Citizen will be instanced to hell, they can't even stabilize things as it is in terms of performance.

have to do with ED? Please. Tell me.

Hint: It doesn't.

You're getting so caught up in your hate for this game that you can't even tell what you're saying anymore.

[Majestic12]

What does

have to do with ED? Please. Tell me.

Hint: It doesn't.

You're getting so caught up in your hate for this game that you can't even tell what you're saying anymore.

Continue reading. I made the point that one of the BIGGEST blockers(not even you can deny this) is the performance and that he's in for a serious disappointment if he expects SC to be anything unlike this:

Elite dangerous: Space exploration and planetary exploration. pvp if you can get in the same instance as other people Thats pretty much it.

... Which ironically was his description of Elite Dangerous. This is exactly what Star Citizen is shooting for(that they don't have yet).

Your desperation shows when you tunnelvision on one sentence tied to one claim when it fits perfectly with what the guy was talking about in his post. Star Citizen has serious limitations due to the engine because what CR wanted the most was shiny graphics. Now they can't tie everything together for decent performance. Shocker there! Not.

When SC bites the dust you'll disappear into thin air or make a new account. You're so invested into shilling for SC that there's no turning back for you now. I've saved most of the posts in this thread though for epic lulz. We're making history here and you're part of it.

Please post productively. Infracted. -Edge

[The Penguin]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Star Citizen still just glorified Vaporware?

[masterhorus8]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Star Citizen still just glorified Vaporware?

Eh, depends on your definition of"vaporware". If it's that there is nothing tangible of the game, then you are indeed wrong. If it's that there is no final version of it out for release to the general piclic, then at that point, you might as well consider every software project in existence to be vaporware that is being developed. The difference between SC and w/e it was that coined the term "vaporware" is that SC is in open development and we can see the progress, however slow it may be.

[Majestic12]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Star Citizen still just glorified Vaporware?

Nah, it's not vaporware. They are trying to develop something. If Chris could finish the game, he would, it's just that his decisions make the game hard if not impossible to complete.

My problem with Star Citizen lies only with Chris Roberts. To give some perspective, I was a happy backer until 2015 when I realized what a piece of shit Chris Roberts really is. Actions speak much larger than words, and this is what Chris did:

- Stood on stage and said that Star Marine was "weeks, not months" away. Sales during that event goes really well and then we get no Star Marine and complete radio silence.
- After people start complaining, Chris states that he gets "annoyed" when people mention Star Marine because you can shoot at things in the PU pretty much.

The fact that he was trying to play it off like it was already in the game pissed me off. Star Marine was so much more than just two people shooting at each other. It was supposed to be a whole new game mode where we could easily spawn and play without hassle, play with gadgets and so on.

Blast from the past:



"Dates subject to change" <- Haha, yeah... 2 years late and counting for SQ42. But this is what Chris will feed the backers in order to boost sales, just like last year when he said 3.0 (in a much larger scope including network fixes) would be out in december. Pure lie from a guy who knew it wasn't anywhere near ready. He has no integrity. No respect. Nothing at all for the backers. It's all about numbers now, and his actions prove it.

Chris Roberts should never have been the head of Star Citizen. He should have been a creative consultant like he became on Freelancer after Microsoft kicked him off.

[Orange Joe]

That's what he said. Get off my back and question the Star Citizen fan who brought it up instead of me just because I'm against CIG and Chris.

I brought it up? You sure you aren't missing something in that post you quoted? Did I maybe quote someone else and reply to them?

[DarkAmbient]

Chris Roberts should never have been the head of Star Citizen. He should have been a creative consultant like he became on Freelancer after Microsoft kicked him off.

I want the game to succeed but it's clearly suffering from having a guy in charge with a proven track record of being a terrible project manager.

This Gameranx article is very long but illuminating: http://gameranx.com/updates/id/70033...of-everything/

[Majestic12]

I brought it up? You sure you aren't missing something in that post you quoted? Did I maybe quote someone else and reply to them?

You specifically told me "Let's compare content" which is why my entire SC vs ED post came up. Which then became what people were questioning.

[KyrtF]

Nah, it's not vaporware. They are trying to develop something.

They were trying to develop DN3D for years but it was still seen as vapourware. The difference is DN3Ds Alpha build wasn't pushed out to players as a playable demo for marketing and to build hype

Its vapourware because there is no game right now. At the minute, its a series of disconnected separate modules lacking most of the games planned mechanics. There is no release date. And the information CIG pushes out about what it is doing and why and when is at best unreliable and bordering on deliberate falsehood at worst.

Are CIG trying to develop something? Yes

But its vapourware because the game we all want and hope CIG will produce simply doesn't exist as anything other than a couple of playable tech demoes.

Would CIG be facing this criticism if it were an ordinary developer with a publisher? No....a publisher probably wouldn't have allowed CR to run his mouth off the way he has. But a publisher also wouldn't be giving CIG the freedom it currently enjoys. It would have clamped down on the feature bloat and it would be insisting CIG commit to developing a game rather than a universe simulator.

Which way is better? My head is telling me CR is making promises CIG have no chance of keeping. But my heart keeps saying "What if...?"

I don't think anyone doubts that if CIG deliver the game they have promised that it'll go down as epic. Whether or not it'll be fun is another point but certainly epic.

But the big question is whether or not the game that was promised can and will be delivered. Technically...I think its possible.

But practically speaking? I don't have much hope. I think CIG made a number of very poor decisions at the start of development and some of those are still causing problems....such as the choice of engine.

To a degree, I think CIG are stuck in a sunk cost fallacy of their own....they spent so much time and money trying to get CryEngine to work that they don't want to see that work written off. And it very likely is too late to change...I just believe CIG should have committed to a custom engine from the start or, at the very least, one they recognised the funding success they had and the feature creep CR was promising.

I also think the funding model is showing some of its drawbacks....as things are, CIG has every financial reason to delay SC, and to procrastinate.

[Odeezee]

people who have accomplished less talking about how someone pushing boundaries is bad? yet they have had many successful projects completed? yeah, the internet is devolving into a place where people think it's okay to abdicate from logic, reasoning, understanding, truth and honesty. /sigh.

new AtV is up. this the tech the showcase, Render-To-Texture is so sick, can't wait to see it and use it in-game. talk about immersion! go ahead CIG, i see you.

[Majestic12]

people who have accomplished less talking about how someone pushing boundaries is bad? yet they have had many successful projects completed? yeah, the internet is devolving into a place where people think it's okay to abdicate from logic, reasoning, understanding, truth and honesty. /sigh.

new AtV is up. this the tech the showcase, Render-To-Texture is so sick, can't wait to see it and use it in-game. talk about immersion! go ahead CIG, i see you.

Chris has been out of the industry for a decade. And he failed on Freelancer and had to be kicked off by Microsoft. Convenient how you didn't mention that.

Also if you honestly degrade peoples' opinions because they "accomplished less" ... just lol dude. We shouldn't criticise and just shut up, right?

[KyrtF]

people who have accomplished less talking about how someone pushing boundaries is bad? yet they have had many successful projects completed? yeah, the internet is devolving into a place where people think it's okay to abdicate from logic, reasoning, understanding, truth and honesty. /sigh.

new AtV is up. this the tech the showcase, Render-To-Texture is so sick, can't wait to see it and use it in-game. talk about immersion! go ahead CIG, i see you.

Chris is what many would call an "ideas man"....

but he does not have a history of being able to push his projects towards a successful completion. Whether it was Wing Commander the movie or Freelancer, his projects have never lived up to their promise and they have always had problems and their lack of success or popularity was ***never*** his fault.

Chris has a problem...he wants everything. He said it himself...he wished someone had sat him down and told him that having ten great ideas is good, but that they only had money and time for five.

And we can see many of the same problems that plagued his previous projects....even going back as far as Freelancer and Wing Commander movie...infecting this project. Even his personal style is reportedly the same...no room for creative input from anyone except him.

Chris Roberts, sad to say, hasn't really had a truly successful project since he left Origin.

Personally, I think Erin Roberts appears to be the one holding the team together.

As for the new ATV...I don't want another tech demo. I want 3.0 to show some real progress in getting the game developed.

I mean...how long ago was this filmed that they are talking about homing in on a final feature set? Thats something that needed to be done months ago.

[Tancred]

I'm so glad three years I wrote and asked for a refund - claiming financial difficulties and got my money back. 3k + I'd invested in the Idris-M Frigate and Vanduul Scythe and other cool launch date stuff from 2012...

Goodbye Lamp...

[Odeezee]

so much conjecture, people act like they know what's up just because it's how they "feel" or it's what they guess is the situation, coz who needs facts and information really when you can just make up your own? haha, smh. you people crack me up.

Monthly Studio Report (July 2017)

Schedule Report (August 4 2017) and the Diff Checker for the Schedule Report. we are getting so much closer to 3.0s release guys!!!

Eye Candy (click images to enlarge)

[KyrtF]

so much conjecture, people act like they know what's up just because it's how they "feel" or it's what they guess is the situation, coz who needs facts and information really when you can just make up your own? haha, smh. you people crack me up.

For a debate like this, facts are helpful. But all we have to go on are stuff like CIGs financial reports from the UK, CIGs own statements and the actual work - or lack therefore - that they have shown.

I regret having mentioned ED and NMS earlier but the point I was trying to make is that other companies have released very similar games to SC with a similar or greater scope and did so with a fraction of the workforce and budget.

The UK reports shows - or at least strongly indicates - that one studio is taking up at least half of their yearly income. Half. For ONE studio. CIG has five. Even acknowledging F42 is one of the largest studios they have, thats a lot of money to be spending on one studio.

And then we have the decision to build mocap studio. That's a lot of money as well. That stuff ain't cheap. are they renting it out to recover some of their costs? There's no sign they are.

It's stuff like this that makes people worry about their finances.

The point is simple - yes. Some of what people talk about is conjecture. Other is an educated guess or a dedication while other stuff is fact.

Chris Roberts stood up on stage in August 2016 and told us 3.0 could be out by Christmas. CIG hadn't even laid out the roadmap for what they wanted 3.0 to do. They hadn't even started it.

Incompetence or lie?

I'm afraid I have to go with lie. We can forgive some stuff as because Chris was out oft he game for a decade....but he's been doing this for 5 years by then, he should have SOME grasp of the schedules, and even discounting that...4 months for a major patch that they hadn't even feature mapped isn't credible.

So - IMO, he lied. He lied to his backers for marketing, he lied to encourage sales, he lied for hype. But he lied. He deliberately misled us all.

Which means that the schedule information you mention, or indeed anything else coming out from CIG, cannot be trusted. ATV, 10ftC, all the rest - even the schedule. They aren't efforts at transparency, but rather marketing tools. System to drum up hype. To keep the cashflow running. To hide the problems and distract the base.

SC and S42 have been in development now since 2011. Six years.

Elite Dangerous started development in 2012. They had a fraction of the budget CIG has accrued for SC. It was released in 2014. Granted - they had a working engine they knew very well. They also had a studio system in place and didn't have to build from the ground up. They didn't suffer the communication problems that cost CIG millions and wasted time and squandered development.

As for a feature list comparison....ED and SC are pretty much identical. As for what they have now...ED really only lacks the FPS portion and atmospheric flight. SC, however, lacks a persistent universe. It lacks basic mechanics. It lacks depth. Sure - CIG have plans - big plans. Grandiose plans. Extravagant plans. But right now, that's all they are. Plans.

And the same for NMS. With a fraction of the workforce and budget, they have created a decent game that offers many of the features SC has planned. Yes, NMS was pushed out too early and missing many of the features planned for release. But they are fixing that.

The point being that for all the hype about $155 million raised.....for all the money they have spent on studios, for all the videos and cons they have produced - all of which cost money taken from that development budget...CIG right now have VERY little to show.

Other devs have managed to produce similar games on a much smaller budget and a much shorter timescale. So the question is - why is SC taking so long?

You might argue it is the difference between an A rated game and the AAA game SC wants to be. You might argue that quality takes time. That unlike Frontier or HG, CR needed to create studios and build or modify an engine.

And I would respond - that is why CR passed developed out to third parties. How much backer money did he squander doing that?

But yes - quality takes time. An AAA title would be more expensive to develop than an A title.

Do we see that quality in game? Not really. The graphics were impressive in 2012. They are becoming less so as time goes on. The scope of the game is impressive. But other games have similar scope. The feature list is impressive. But again, not unknown.

But - CIG built their own motion capture studio. A lot of games companies use motion capture. Few seem to see any sense in building their own studio. They saw fit to effectively write off millions spent on third party development. They have a huge range of stars for S42, stars who also do not come cheap, and who...for some strange reason...have already recorded their lines and motion capture. Years before the game would be ready for it.

But does the use of expensive A rated actors, motion capture and video make a game AAA rated? No - but it helps. Of course, what doesn't help are the reports that the games script was written by a certain Chris Roberts and is of "laughable" quality. They spend all that money on motion capture...but can't hire a decent scriptwriter? I'm not certain how true that is...but it seems plausible

The point being...again...is that we do NOT make up "facts".

This is simply your way of trying to discredit any naysayers.
People here discuss the game...and that includes its apparent problems and development issues.

Sticking your head in the sand isn't going to make these issues disappear.

CIG is burning through money like no ones business. Half their annual income on one studio?
CIG has delivered no meaningful gameplay. Just a set of modules which demonstrated the tech, and a few video productions which are reported to be staged rather than actual gameplay.
They have raised $155 million so far...and have squandered a fair chunk.
They have spent six years in development and produced nothing they can show beyond the aforementioned tech demos.

And Chris Roberts lied to us. Meaning that we can't really trust anything CIG pushes out in the name of transparency. Barring legal documents such as the UK financial report or that related to the loan guarantees - worrying enough in its own right - everything CIG pushes out seems geared more towards hype and getting money off the backers than pushing out a game. Indeed, once you claw though their new language and new terms, much of what they are pushing and hyping is old tech, old concepts...just rebadged and overhyped.

So - no one is making up facts. Other than you claiming people are making up facts.

[Deleted]

is the game out ? is it good?

[Odeezee]

so much typed out and yet very little fact to help with your argument. the fact of the matter is you literally do NOT know, no one but those who work in the development and accounting departments of CIG as a whole know, so why speculate at all? ignorance is not a cover for misrepresentation and making assertions about the nature and makeup of a business you lack first or even second hand knowledge of. you wrote ALL of that and your arguments are based on your own interpretation of things which you literally cannot corroborate with ANY evidence. so, so sad. smh.

case in point:

The UK reports shows - or at least strongly indicates - that one studio is taking up at least half of their yearly income. Half. For ONE studio. CIG has five. Even acknowledging F42 is one of the largest studios they have, thats a lot of money to be spending on one studio.

And then we have the decision to build mocap studio. That's a lot of money as well. That stuff ain't cheap. are they renting it out to recover some of their costs? There's no sign they are.

It's stuff like this that makes people worry about their finances.

i mean really talk about utter conjecture, haha. and why speak for others other than yourself? yet another assumption on your part. /sigh

[masterhorus8]

No it has been delayed yet again. And what has basically been delayed is an Alpha.

Don't respond to him. He's been part of the FUD campaign for over a year.

[Malibutomi]

snip.

It's funny you rant about facts and manage to get almost all of yours wrong.

"Chris Roberts stood up on stage in August 2016 and told us 3.0 could be out by Christmas. CIG hadn't even laid out the roadmap for what they wanted 3.0 to do. They hadn't even started it.

Incompetence or lie?"

Yes he said they "hope" to release it, but he won't make promises. Also while 3.0 misses landing locations, the original 2 pages- 20 features grew to 20 pages.

"SC and S42 have been in development now since 2011. Six years. "

Not true. Yes made a demo in 2011. Thats like 0.000001% of the development, not to mention none of it were used.
The real work started after the KS campaign, but early 2013 they still only had a dozen of devs. They had to build up the teams, studios, workflow, etc.

"Elite Dangerous started development in 2012. They had a fraction of the budget CIG has accrued for SC. It was released in 2014. "

Again not true. There are articles mentioning the new Elite game from 2008 if i recall correctly. The Cobra engine was developed decades ago. Their kickstarter was merely a market test.

"As for a feature list comparison....ED and SC are pretty much identical. As for what they have now...ED really only lacks the FPS portion and atmospheric flight."

This is fairly simplistic view, as the "only lacks the FPS portion" is what makes the amount of work needed several magnitudes bigger. Instead of the "you are the ship" gameplay they needed ship and station interiors which makes sense, and match the exterior, localised physics grids, FPS animations, FPS items, item use animations, movement animations, fight animations, working ship components, animations for ship use, etc. It's an endless list. If Frontier want to make space legs comparable to SC then they indeed need to spend years of work and millions of dollars to develop it, or they can make a worse lookalike, but i doubt that would cut it for them. I wouldn't be surprise if they decide to not do it.

"Do we see that quality in game? Not really. The graphics were impressive in 2012. They are becoming less so as time goes on. The scope of the game is impressive. But other games have similar scope."

It seems you haven't seen the game since 2012 then. Todaus graphic is night and day compared to the 2012 one. Itputs single player AAA games into shame.
Also theres no game withsimilar scope (fully detailed FPS universe, with localised physics grids, multicrew, etc.)

" A lot of games companies use motion capture. Few seem to see any sense in building their own studio. "

It completely makes sense, as they are building an MMO FPS universe, they need countless motion cap shoots, and as an MMO planned for tge long run, in the end itcomes off cheaper than rent mocap time every week at a studio.

". Of course, what doesn't help are the reports that the games script was written by a certain Chris Roberts and is of "laughable" quality. They spend all that money on motion capture."

Again false accusations. They have a group of very talented writers.

"CIG is burning through money like no ones business. Half their annual income on one studio? "

Which studio surprisingly has more than half of their manpower Shocking.