1. #4301
    Quote Originally Posted by KyrtF View Post
    This is part of the problem.

    Their core user base has already bought the game meaning no post launch funds unless they have a reserve. They need to market the game to bring in new blood.

    Seriously - why is this even in doubt? They are marketing the game right now with their videos and cons. The problem is that the audience is limited. They aren't doing the type of saturation marketing a supposedly "AAA" game needs. They can't rely on the proceeds form the sales of 1 or 2 million game copies simply because they already have that money.

    Or do they think people are going to keep crowdfunding them after the game launch? Is CIGs income going to remain at whatever it is because players want the XPac? I don't think so.

    CIG need to maintain a sizeable reserve dedicated purely for marketing the game post launch. And that is a problem because existing publishers can spend huge amounts, but gain efficiencies through scale. CIG won't have that advantage without a publisher.

    Now...whether they spend a little or a lot is up to them. But they will need to market the game
    You do realise there will most likely be an optional sub, there is always players that sub to games for the extra benefits, even if only 10% of current numbers keep an active sub that should generate 2 million plus a month, combine that with micro transactions for people that want to but UEC and cosmetic items and that will be more than enough to put out content and keep the game running.

    Also there will be a number of players waiting till the game is released before buying.
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  2. #4302
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    You do realise there will most likely be an optional sub, there is always players that sub to games for the extra benefits, even if only 10% of current numbers keep an active sub that should generate 2 million plus a month, combine that with micro transactions for people that want to but UEC and cosmetic items and that will be more than enough to put out content and keep the game running.

    Also there will be a number of players waiting till the game is released before buying.
    IIRC...game subscriptions have been ruled out so, no. I don't realise that.
    Nor would an "optional sub" really work unless the game becomes pay to win.

    That leaves microtransactions...which I stated...

    But even assuming all of that, nothing here removes the need for CIG to engage in marketing the game in order to sell as many copies as possible.

    And a decent marketing and launch campaign...including the possible production and distribution of physical copies and media...can be very expensive.

    And then there are running costs. Even with microtransactions, its going to cost a fair bit to have AWS provide their services. CIG are going to want to reserve enough cash for 12-18 months depending on the scale of operations they want. Would that cost them $5000 or $5000000?

    In short...CIG are going to need to reserve a substantial sum to cover aspects such as marketing and a certain degree of operational costs. It is impossible to guess how much that reserve should be because we don't know the scale at which SC will operate or the exact margin with which they woyld feel safe


    But neither are likely to be cheap.

    But as I said, its possible CIG might see no need for a marketing campaign.

  3. #4303
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyrtF View Post
    IIRC...game subscriptions have been ruled out so, no. I don't realise that.
    Nor would an "optional sub" really work unless the game becomes pay to win.

    That leaves microtransactions...which I stated...

    But even assuming all of that, nothing here removes the need for CIG to engage in marketing the game in order to sell as many copies as possible.

    And a decent marketing and launch campaign...including the possible production and distribution of physical copies and media...can be very expensive.

    And then there are running costs. Even with microtransactions, its going to cost a fair bit to have AWS provide their services. CIG are going to want to reserve enough cash for 12-18 months depending on the scale of operations they want. Would that cost them $5000 or $5000000?

    In short...CIG are going to need to reserve a substantial sum to cover aspects such as marketing and a certain degree of operational costs. It is impossible to guess how much that reserve should be because we don't know the scale at which SC will operate or the exact margin with which they woyld feel safe


    But neither are likely to be cheap.

    But as I said, its possible CIG might see no need for a marketing campaign.
    There is realy no need for marketing, since players are starving to play another like sandbox game, where you have full control of your ship movement.

    They are only like 3 games that come to my mind (not counting x-3 or x-4 the failure):
    Elite dangerous (wich it fells like it lacks something)
    Darkstar one (pretty meh, but its one of those rare games where you can fight, trade and explore)
    And the epic failure we know of.
    Don't sweat the details!!!

  4. #4304
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    well if their press interest while in development is anything to go by, they will get interviews from the gaming magazines that always cover SC/SQ42 milestones and then there are all the big streamers/youtubers who have shown great interest in the game in the past like Angry Joe, Level Cap, Draegast, FrankieOnPC, etc as well as general backers getting people to buy in through word of mouth.

    3.0 being a success would help with this a great deal, just need a great update launch and experience for the backer/free fly newbies and a kickass 3.0 update trailer and yeah, new people will come. people need to remember that while SC may have many Space Sim fans already pledged many won't until full release, SC is also an MMO and FPS so has the potential to bring in those large gaming markets.
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  5. #4305
    Quote Originally Posted by Odeezee View Post
    3.0 being a success would help with this a great deal, just need a great update launch and experience for the backer/free fly newbies.
    Chances of them having a great launch for the update and providing a stable experiece is probably 1,000,000:1 based on previous patches.

    I'm kind of looking forward to the patch myself, I'd really like to see what gameplay they are going to offer because they seem rather quiet on that.

  6. #4306
    Quote Originally Posted by KyrtF View Post
    IIRC...game subscriptions have been ruled out so, no. I don't realise that.
    Nor would an "optional sub" really work unless the game becomes pay to win.

    That leaves microtransactions...which I stated...

    But even assuming all of that, nothing here removes the need for CIG to engage in marketing the game in order to sell as many copies as possible.

    And a decent marketing and launch campaign...including the possible production and distribution of physical copies and media...can be very expensive.

    And then there are running costs. Even with microtransactions, its going to cost a fair bit to have AWS provide their services. CIG are going to want to reserve enough cash for 12-18 months depending on the scale of operations they want. Would that cost them $5000 or $5000000?

    In short...CIG are going to need to reserve a substantial sum to cover aspects such as marketing and a certain degree of operational costs. It is impossible to guess how much that reserve should be because we don't know the scale at which SC will operate or the exact margin with which they woyld feel safe


    But neither are likely to be cheap.

    But as I said, its possible CIG might see no need for a marketing campaign.
    It has not been stated there won't be an optional sub for the game, there is actually a current sub at the moment 12 and 24 versions, where they can add upon the current sub with ingame bonus's like extra credits every mission, a sub will always give a slight advantage to the player mostly to make thing take less time to aquire, and as an optional sub you still get full access to the game.

    Marketing wise they don't need to do anything further, maybe something when the game is ready for full release but most players who are thinking about the game are either waiting for full release or already have a basic package so marketing is mostly irrelevant.

    An optional sub and micro transactions make the most sense business wise to maintain and keep updates coming to the game, if they keep with the 2 optional subs atm they could add like 5% increased credits gain/rep on the cheaper one and 10% for the more expensive version, maybe access to certain ship skins and such or shorter times for ships to be recovered after a loss, a sub should only help the player to speed things up slightly with no other real advantages.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2017-08-08 at 04:41 PM.
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  7. #4307
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    It has not been stated there won't be an optional sub for the game, there is actually a current sub at the moment 12 and 24 versions, where they can add upon the current sub with ingame bonus's like extra credits* every mission, a sub will always give a slight advantage to the player mostly to make thing take less time to aquire, and as an optional sub you still get full access to the game.

    Marketing wise they don't need to do anything further, maybe something when the game is ready for full release but most players who are thinking about the game are either waiting for full release or already have a basic package so marketing is mostly irrelevant.

    An optional sub and micro transactions make the most sense business wise to maintain and keep updates coming to the game, if they keep with the 2 optional subs atm they could add like 5% increased credits gain/rep on the cheaper one and 10% for the more expensive version, maybe access to certain ship skins and such or shorter times for ships to be recovered after a loss, a sub should only help the player to speed things up slightly with no other real advantages.
    *Note about the currency: It's alpha testing currency, not final currency. So none of that sticks through resets. As stated, no real information about the optional sub for the final game yet.
    10

  8. #4308
    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    *Note about the currency: It's alpha testing currency, not final currency. So none of that sticks through resets. As stated, no real information about the optional sub for the final game yet.
    Im hypothetically talking about the current subscriber option being enhanced to give a small ingame bonus, there would be little point in a sub option if it didnt have some ingame benefits.

    An optional sub plus micro transaction shop would be the most ideal option to help maintain the game indefinately, as long as players can get full access to the game without it, benefits such as 5% increased uec from completed missions or veteran rewards for every 30 days subscribed like ship skins and such.

    It would be hard to maintain the game and pump out content without an optional sub to bring in a few million each month.
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  9. #4309
    Pandaren Monk masterhorus8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Im hypothetically talking about the current subscriber option being enhanced to give a small ingame bonus, there would be little point in a sub option if it didnt have some ingame benefits.

    An optional sub plus micro transaction shop would be the most ideal option to help maintain the game indefinately, as long as players can get full access to the game without it, benefits such as 5% increased uec from completed missions or veteran rewards for every 30 days subscribed like ship skins and such.

    It would be hard to maintain the game and pump out content without an optional sub to bring in a few million each month.
    I can certainly see a monthly sub for currency boosts/currency per month (or week or whatever). As long as none of that bypasses the earning limits that there will supposedly be on UEC in the game.
    10

  10. #4310
    They will make an optional sub for sure. They will also sell ingame credits for rl-cash(that part is confirmed).

    The biggest trick will be not making it more pay 2 win than it has the reputation of being now. A lot of people criticise SC because the bigger bucks you toss at the game, the bigger mechanical advantage you have on launch. Mechanical advantages for RL cash leaves a sour taste in many people's mouths. I think they have a point. Just look at the total fleet number vs. actual backers. The ship-to-player ratio is very unbalanced and it is purely because they have sold all ships for rl cash.

    Also; it goes without saying that people who bought ships will attack you on sight even on day 1. That and/or grief people with expensive ships using their alt accounts (that we know exists). CIG will have lots of drama on their hands once that starts happening aka Eve style. They will need systems in place to combat this without making people invulnerable.
    Last edited by Majestic12; 2017-08-08 at 06:52 PM.

  11. #4311
    The "mechanical advantage" is a bit dubious atm, since the hull doesn't include better fittings, maintenance and crew costs, etc. And until 4.0 or the PU alpha we just won't have a good feel for what it really means. I think people are blowing that part out of proportion, but we'll see I suppose.

    I certainly wouldn't want to risk an expensive hull until I had a good feel for safe vs. risky shipping lanes, profitable areas to do various things, etc. Otherwise you're just risking the hull and wasting a ton of fuel aimlessly wandering around.

    If people really feel like they would be "missing out", they can join a player corp or w/e and share a larger ship at launch.

  12. #4312
    Buying ingame credits has a limit so that would only go so far anyway. There will also be a slider ingame so you can put pve or pvp up or down so its much less likely you will encounter things you don't want to do at that time, there will be lots of pvp however.

    Im looking forward to when they start putting in ways to customise your ships.

    Im also sure in populated systems it would be risky for a player to attack another for no reason, there will most likely be a military police presence to help with unwanted hostilities, maybe implement a distress beacon for the player to activate and npcs/players come to help for a set reward.
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  13. #4313
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Buying ingame credits has a limit so that would only go so far anyway. There will also be a slider ingame so you can put pve or pvp up or down so its much less likely you will encounter things you don't want to do at that time, there will be lots of pvp however.

    Im looking forward to when they start putting in ways to customise your ships.

    Im also sure in populated systems it would be risky for a player to attack another for no reason, there will most likely be a military police presence to help with unwanted hostilities, maybe implement a distress beacon for the player to activate and npcs/players come to help for a set reward.
    You can still spend $750 a month simply by emptying your wallet each time it reaches its cap, ie purchase some cargo that you know you will profit from. Or you might have a few accounts (very common with the more fanatical spenders) and simply do the above on all accounts before trading the cargo to your main.

    I thought the idea of the slider was pretty much done away with and they were now going for areas within a system that would be PvP enabled etc as well as having some systems that have higher security presence/rules than others.

  14. #4314
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    It has not been stated there won't be an optional sub for the game, there is actually a current sub at the moment 12 and 24 versions, where they can add upon the current sub with ingame bonus's like extra credits every mission, a sub will always give a slight advantage to the player mostly to make thing take less time to aquire, and as an optional sub you still get full access to the game.
    Trouble...CIG HAVE ruled out a subscription based system and an "optional sub" which gives a 'slight' advantage where you just take less time.....

    first...that IS pay to win
    second...that IS microtransactions

    Marketing wise they don't need to do anything further, maybe something when the game is ready for full release
    Yes....CIG are already spending millions on marketing each year. They will however need to spend more so they can expand to a larger audience. Citizencon, YT vids and so on are already preaching to the converted. But CIG cannot make the assumption that there are no more ears to reach.

    If you think CIG with its history of hype isn't planning on a big marketing push.....CIG don't have the money for the marketing campaign associated with a AAA title but they should be able to afford somethibg better than word of nouth
    Last edited by KyrtF; 2017-08-12 at 12:15 AM.

  15. #4315
    Quote Originally Posted by KyrtF View Post
    Trouble...CIG HAVE ruled out a subscription based system and an "optional sub" which gives a 'slight' advantage where you just take less time.....

    first...that IS pay to win
    second...that IS microtransactions

    They only ruled out a subscription only based game, you know the game already as an optional subscription and that can easily modified for some ingame benefits, if there is no ingame benefits then an optional sub is pointless.

    Optional subs usually only give a slight boost in earning things ingame, they could just add veteran bonus's like rare ship skins for each 30 day period, there is nothing pay to win about optional subs unless they make it where you have access to things that other players don't.

    I can guarantee there will be an optional sub system in place on release, as long as players no matter if they are subbed or not have the same access there is nothing pay to win, now if you could buy the best weapons and equipment for real money that would make it pay to win, otherwise a small boost to make things take a little less time to aquire is not pay to win.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2017-08-09 at 04:39 PM.
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  16. #4316
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Buying ingame credits has a limit so that would only go so far anyway. There will also be a slider ingame so you can put pve or pvp up or down so its much less likely you will encounter things you don't want to do at that time, there will be lots of pvp however.

    Im looking forward to when they start putting in ways to customise your ships.

    Im also sure in populated systems it would be risky for a player to attack another for no reason, there will most likely be a military police presence to help with unwanted hostilities, maybe implement a distress beacon for the player to activate and npcs/players come to help for a set reward.
    Yeah, you're right about ingame credits being limited in terms of time.

    The PvP slider is not a thing, however. It was discussed and the last time it was brought up it was dismissed. It was just an idea. Even if that was implemented though, it was said it would not be in effect in low security space. A lot of people had the impression it would basically let you enable or disable PvP but that was never a thing either.

  17. #4317
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    The Sub reddit seems to be buzzing about in game streaming, that is sitting in your ship watching a live stream of other people exploring areas via a camera on the suits.
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    I'd never compare him to Hitler, Hitler was actually well educated, and by all accounts pretty intelligent.

  18. #4318
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    They only ruled out a subscription only based game, you know the game already as an optional subscription and that can easily modified for some ingame benefits, if there is no ingame benefits then an optional sub is pointless.
    Yep....and the pay to win aspect is worrying me.

    Optional subs usually only give a slight boost in earning things ingame, they could just add veteran bonus's like rare ship skins for each 30 day period, there is nothing pay to win about optional subs unless they make it where you have access to things that other players don't.
    Please don't be so naive. If you get a battleship a month or a week or a year before others can get it in game, it's pay to win. It gives you an immediate advantage over other players and it matters not if such units or boosts can be achieved for free.

    Conversely a subscription that doesn't have in game benefits is essentially worthless.

    Yes...I am also aware that CIG are aware of this amd will separate pay to winners from those who simply play but will also merge the two bases after a few months.

    That to me is an indication that the game will have PTW aspects.More so CR liked the WoT PTW model.

    He sees it as "catching up" but any system put in to allow catchup play can also be used by the leaders. It doesn't matter how you cut it....unless you limit transactions to pure cosmetic options, the game becomes PTW by giving...at the very least...a boost to players for money. If paying real money allows player to buy extra credits which they then use to buy ships or weapons or upgrades, thats PTW.

    And a subscription that limits you to just cosmetic options doesn't seem viable.

  19. #4319
    Quote Originally Posted by KyrtF View Post
    Yep....and the pay to win aspect is worrying me.



    Please don't be so naive. If you get a battleship a month or a week or a year before others can get it in game, it's pay to win. It gives you an immediate advantage over other players and it matters not if such units or boosts can be achieved for free.

    Conversely a subscription that doesn't have in game benefits is essentially worthless.

    Yes...I am also aware that CIG are aware of this amd will separate pay to winners from those who simply play but will also merge the two bases after a few months.

    That to me is an indication that the game will have PTW aspects.More so CR liked the WoT PTW model.

    He sees it as "catching up" but any system put in to allow catchup play can also be used by the leaders. It doesn't matter how you cut it....unless you limit transactions to pure cosmetic options, the game becomes PTW by giving...at the very least...a boost to players for money. If paying real money allows player to buy extra credits which they then use to buy ships or weapons or upgrades, thats PTW.

    And a subscription that limits you to just cosmetic options doesn't seem viable.
    Pay to win means you can buy something that increases your power, the average optional sub systems usually just cut down on the grind by a small percentage, there obvoiusly needs to be some ingame benefits to having a sub, maybe it could be just veteran rewards with new skins and stuff.

    What would it matter anyway if someone earnt for say a idris, for one they need friends to help man all the stations or your going to gimp yourself, and your friends may not play very well, a handful of small decent armed fighters could eventually take your idris down if your crew doesnt have the skills to shoot them down, not to mention the retaiator ship with massive fuck off torps to damage or destroy most of the larger ships.

    The larger ships are only as good as the crew, and do you have 24 plus friends to help crew these ships properly and these ships can be easily noticed and will be much slower than smaller ships so you can just stay away from it.

    SC will have a good focus on player skill and not what ship your flying, and there will be many ways to customise your ships to improve the capabilities further. Unless you have bought one already and idris could take months to earn and a javelin could take a year. Also pvp will most likely be happening more in low security space so if you heading that way you expect to be attacked and you can always just run away.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2017-08-10 at 04:42 PM.
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  20. #4320
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Pay to win means you can buy something that increases your power
    Yes...and in CIGs PTW system, that something is in game money which you use to buy thing like ships and weapons.

    Does it matter that this is indirect? Nope. But that is the reality. You spend money to get in game currency and you can then spend that currency on equipment which boosts your performance.

    Put simply...compare to players who put the dame amount of time into the game. One buys currency and uses it to buy and equip ships. The other does not.

    At the end of whatever time frame you want...who will have the better ship?

    Pay to Win in action.



    there obvoiusly needs to be some ingame benefits to having a sub, maybe it could be just veteran rewards with new skins and stuff.
    Yes...a sub needs some sort of benefit to justify.

    If those benefits have an impact on gameplay, even indirectly, you have Pay To Win.
    If they don't, well...you may as well just open up a store for microtransactions.

    CIG would have been far better either keeping quiet or imposing a subscription fee to cover running costs and development on everyone.

    What would it matter anyway if someone earnt for say a idris, for one they need friends to help man all the stations or your going to gimp yourself
    You get a bunch of friends who pool their bought in game currency and buy and crew a ship. You think that makes them less effective? Ever play a MMO? There are entire guilds of 10s or 100s of players who do this type of thing.


    The larger ships are only as good as the crew, and do you have 24 plus friends to help crew these ships properly and these ships can be easily noticed and will be much slower than smaller ships so you can just stay away from it.
    You've not done much PvP have you?

    C will have a good focus on player skill and not what ship your flying, and there will be many ways to customise your ships to improve the capabilities further.
    Such as by using the ingame cash you bought with real life money to ensure your "slow" ship is fast enough to catch the "fast" ships of those who didn't pay to upgrade?

    Unless you have bought one already and idris could take months to earn and a javelin could take a year.
    Are you trying to prove the game is or isn't pay to win when you bring this up?

    Also pvp will most likely be happening more in low security space so if you heading that way you expect to be attacked and you can always just run away.
    Will your weapons be disabled in high security space?

    Besides...it isn't just PvP. Earning ships is one of the goals of games like this. How many players have them? Paying money means you get an advantage over those who don't....not just in combat but also trade, mining and so on. How is that not PTW?

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