[Megathread] Star Citizen

[masterhorus8]

From the transcript....again

"This is built on top of some new tech we have called the Render to Texture System"

This isn't new tech and what they are calling it and describing it is the same as the RTT system that has been around for at least 20 years. They don't get naming rights for a system that was developed by someone else decades ago.

I'll go slow for you again.

RTT. Is. Part. Of. The. System.
RTT. Is. Not. The. System. Itself.
The. System. Is. Named. After. The. Main. Part. Of. The. System.
The. System. Is. The. New. Tech. Because. It. Didn't. Exist. In. The. Engine. Before.

You're the only person saying that CIG is claiming to have invented it. Even in the den of the cultists on reddit, there are only 3 threads going over the RTT and not a single person thinks CIG is claiming to have invented it.

[Tierbook]

Unless they cut corners and content, I'd be surprised if its out before 2020.

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From the transcript....again

"This is built on top of some new tech we have called the Render to Texture System"

This isn't new tech and what they are calling it and describing it is the same as the RTT system that has been around for at least 20 years. They don't get naming rights for a system that was developed by someone else decades ago.

Conflating what they said to them claiming to have invented the systems is the equivalent of a thinking a Movie being billed as 'the world premier' is the channel saying the filmed and created the movie..... even when it was in theaters about a year ago.

[Gorsameth]

It looks like an interesting game but that was the gist I was hearing online as well. Thought I'd ask here about it.

There are some very interesting articles out there as well about this game and how things have progressed. It's got some age on the article but it was interesting if you are kinda new to the game itself.

http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/09/23/i...f-star-citizen

I would recommend keeping a slight eye on the game so you know if it ever releases and then you can check if it is worth buying.
Due to all the things going on around the development I could never advise someone to buy into the game at this time.

[KyrtF]

I'll go slow for you again.

RTT. Is. Part. Of. The. System.
RTT. Is. Not. The. System. Itself.
The. System. Is. Named. After. The. Main. Part. Of. The. System.
The. System. Is. The. New. Tech. Because. It. Didn't. Exist. In. The. Engine. Before.

It's a system they named after RTT...but it works just like RTT, and does everything RTT does. But it's NEW and EXCITING because it's part of a SYSTEM which they call the RTT SYSTEM.

And it does everything RTT does. But it's newer so its not the same. So when CIG are talking about building the "Secondary Viewpoint" system around the "new" RTT System...which is identical to the old RTT system that has been in use for a couple of decades but which they decided to call the RTT system anyway...they weren't actually talking about the existing RTT system that everyone uses, they were talking about a new RTT system that they developed which is only based upon the old RTT system and it is this new and exciting RTT system that we should all be excited about because it allow CIG to do everything the old RTT system does.

Got it.

OTOH - CIG could simply not have claimed RTT was new and could have foregone the entire part where they decided that they were going to call their new system the RTT System. They could have told the truth - that RTT technology is old, but they have finally managed to integrate it into the game.

Conflating what they said to them claiming to have invented the systems is the equivalent of a thinking a Movie being billed as 'the world premier' is the channel saying the filmed and created the movie..... even when it was in theaters about a year ago.

They described twenty year old technology as new, and then claimed that they gave it the name "RTT System". Neither is true.

[masterhorus8]

I would recommend keeping a slight eye on the game so you know if it ever releases and then you can check if it is worth buying.
Due to all the things going on around the development I could never advise someone to buy into the game at this time.

This. Just keep an eye on things. The only way I'd recommend dropping any quantity of money would be if they had zero care for $60 and/or really wanted to get their hands on the development stages of the project. But even then, for the latter, I'd rather recommend waiting for a Free Fly event, which there might be one happening soon. They usually do one around events like Gamescom.

[zealo]

Unless they cut corners and content, I'd be surprised if its out before 2020.

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From the transcript....again

"This is built on top of some new tech we have called the Render to Texture System"

This isn't new tech and what they are calling it and describing it is the same as the RTT system that has been around for at least 20 years. They don't get naming rights for a system that was developed by someone else decades ago.

Even if it is a concept that existed previously you still need programmers to sit there and write their own implementation of it if their engine lacks support for it, which is what this "new" should be read as.

Anyone who isn't intentionally looking for a reason to be upset has no reason to be this petty about something like this. CIGs ability to so consistently miss internal deadlines they set for themselves is what deserves criticism and scepticism, not choosing to use the word "new" about an implementation of a graphics concept they're working on in a press release.

[Cyclone Jack]

It's a system they named after RTT...but it works just like RTT, and does everything RTT does. But it's NEW and EXCITING because it's part of a SYSTEM which they call the RTT SYSTEM.

Their RTT also controls their holographic projections. Does that still make it exactly the same as every other RTT?

Its also "New and Exciting" because the engine could not previously do RTT, and by adding it to the engine they can do new and exciting things with it that they previously could not.

This isn't a hard concept, you're just hellbent on nitpicking a transcript, but w/e, have a good day nonetheless.

[KyrtF]

The presentation is done.

Missed the start but....a mixed bag.

There are still plenty of issues to address.
Graphics and animation still need work. Parts of it were very jerky and given I'd expect a top line rig to be used for the demo, that is worrying.
Plenty of sync issues...worrying given that they were on the same network do they can't really blame lag.
The landscapes do look nice but maybe it was just the feed, I thought the character and ship graphics were starting to look dated.
There wasn't really much new on show here. A few more NPCs, a new mission, FOIP....
The use of face and eye tracking tech might be nice if they can get it working across a network but the FOIP concept again adds little or nothing to the game and right now it looks weird. It needs refining and it might need to be dropped depending on bandwidth needs.
Nice to see the use of VOIP but thats going to cause bandwidth headaches as well. VOIP alone could swamp some users connection.
Demonstrating that persistence still isn't in that build of the game isn't helping especially given CR mentioned it.
The run felt very scripted and rehearsed...not the demo (which obviously wasn't tested enough) but the speeches and retorts. Make obvious setup comment...wait a second due to delay...enter scripted supposedly funny comeback. Not good.
Plenty of bugs still left in the system to work out and the hi point was a sales pitch to buy the new cameras.

And, unless I missed it...still no mention of S42.

So...another handcrafted scripted demo that ultimately demonstrated nothing new as far as gameplay. A bit of a mess and a bit of a disappointment. Not as bad as it could have been but it could have and should have been far better.

I'd hoped for something more substantial.

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Their RTT also controls their holographic projections. Does that still make it exactly the same as every other RTT?

Ummm...yes. They're manipulating graphics as textures to create holograms. Thats the point of RTT...it offers up all sorts of interesting tricks to developers.

Its also "New and Exciting" because the engine could not previously do RTT, and by adding it to the engine they can do new and exciting things with it that they previously could not.

This isn't a hard concept, you're just hellbent on nitpicking a transcript, but w/e, have a good day nonetheless.

They are not saying "We have finally managed to integrate RTT tech into our engine and this will allow us to do all sorts of visual tricks".
They are saying "We have this new tech we have decided to call RTT"

The former is likely what they did. The latter is indicating that this is a tech they developed and named. And no....creating a system where textures are applied to character skeletons for a hologram effect does not make it a new technology either.

[Majestic12]

Demo was very dissapointing. They just keep adding useless fluff to the game such as facial expressions. The roleplaying was bad, can't believe they went for that after the original Star Marine RP demo.

When you peel off the graphics SC has nothing. No groundbreaking systems in play. No amazing gameplay. Just a Castle made out of air really.

[Tierbook]

Demo was very dissapointing. They just keep adding useless fluff to the game such as facial expressions. The roleplaying was bad, can't believe they went for that after the original Star Marine RP demo.

When you peel off the graphics SC has nothing. No groundbreaking systems in play. No amazing gameplay. Just a Castle made out of air really.

If you say so..... but it's more a matter of bringing a lot of things together and putting it in space that's new. You can argue that other games have tried to do so but you can also argue that Call of Duty, whatever the fuck the next one is, is ground breaking so ya.....

[KyrtF]

If you say so..... but it's more a matter of bringing a lot of things together and putting it in space that's new. You can argue that other games have tried to do so but you can also argue that Call of Duty, whatever the fuck the next one is, is ground breaking so ya.....

But I don't see that as being "new" either.

Neither in concept or practise. NMS has FPS and the space game. ED has a very well developed space game and has plans to eventually add atmospheric landings and FPS.

Both games are also being improved upon and far better now than they were at launch.

SC isn't adding any new concepts. Even FOIP....which is an interesting addition if nothing else...isn't new. Indeed, one gets the idea that CR saw STBC and said " I want THAT in SC as well".

Meanwhile, during the demo last night, there were sync issues and voice delays between players using what I presume were the most powerful PCs CIG could supply and who were on the same network in a build which should have been designed to put SC in the best possible light.

This to me says quite a bit about SCs code and efficiency and underlines how much work the foundation of the game still needs. I do not think it wise of CIG to be spending bandwidth on frivolities until they know how much bandwidth they will have...and they can't know that until they get their netcode up and running. And that won't be in 3.0.

Yes...its one thing to make plans for; quite another to devote development resources towards such features and base major announcements around them.

Does SC offer new gameplay or concepts or a bigger scale? Not really. The most that can be said is that it offers a different graphical style.

But Fast Forward to 2020 to when it is likely to be released.

Assume NMS and ED are still around, as seems likely.

Both of those games would have continued to develop and progress. Both are likely to have improved their multi player experience. ED is likely to have added planetary landings at least, and FPS movement is one of the goals they want.

What will SC offer over those games to attract new players?

Now...I am not trying to run the project down. I really want to play the game. But the more time passes without anything meaningful happening...the more CIG concentrates on cosmetic fluff as opposed to the central core game and the foundations...the harder it is to escape the feeling they are just stringing us along for more ship sales.

And this new FOIP system is just that...cosmetic. And requires a webcam and lo! CIG just happen to have a special one you can use. And with all the bugs and problems that were on show last night, they have better things to work on.

[kenn9530]

But I don't see that as being "new" either.

Neither in concept or practise. NMS has FPS and the space game. ED has a very well developed space game and has plans to eventually add atmospheric landings and FPS.

Both games are also being improved upon and far better now than they were at launch.

SC isn't adding any new concepts. Even FOIP....which is an interesting addition if nothing else...isn't new. Indeed, one gets the idea that CR saw STBC and said " I want THAT in SC as well".

Meanwhile, during the demo last night, there were sync issues and voice delays between players using what I presume were the most powerful PCs CIG could supply and who were on the same network in a build which should have been designed to put SC in the best possible light.

This to me says quite a bit about SCs code and efficiency and underlines how much work the foundation of the game still needs. I do not think it wise of CIG to be spending bandwidth on frivolities until they know how much bandwidth they will have...and they can't know that until they get their netcode up and running. And that won't be in 3.0.

Yes...its one thing to make plans for; quite another to devote development resources towards such features and base major announcements around them.

Does SC offer new gameplay or concepts or a bigger scale? Not really. The most that can be said is that it offers a different graphical style.

But Fast Forward to 2020 to when it is likely to be released.

Assume NMS and ED are still around, as seems likely.

Both of those games would have continued to develop and progress. Both are likely to have improved their multi player experience. ED is likely to have added planetary landings at least, and FPS movement is one of the goals they want.

What will SC offer over those games to attract new players?

Now...I am not trying to run the project down. I really want to play the game. But the more time passes without anything meaningful happening...the more CIG concentrates on cosmetic fluff as opposed to the central core game and the foundations...the harder it is to escape the feeling they are just stringing us along for more ship sales.

And this new FOIP system is just that...cosmetic. And requires a webcam and lo! CIG just happen to have a special one you can use. And with all the bugs and problems that were on show last night, they have better things to work on.

Star citizen is doing the complete package, all other games similar are just bolting things on afterwards at much less quality.

Star citizen worlds are hand crafted where as every other game is just an equation to produce a mass amount of worlds which no real difference on them.

The level of detail in everything in the game is far ahead of anything these other games put out.

Yes its taking a long time to be made but its well on time if you gave the game a proper development time from the beginning, 5-7 years is the usual time you would need and its just into year 6, and im sure it should be almost ready by around the year 8 mark.

Im happy to wait longer for a complete game and not some half assed conception like all other games before.

This game will be a fully immersive space game where as the others are just realsonable facilities of what a space game should be, there is more detail in some of the large ships in SC then there is in the complete game of ED and NMS of which i have played both.

Some features you may think are not relevant but without all the little things you wouldn't get a proper experience, squadron 42 will most likely launch ahead of the PU so people can get stuck in while they complete the PU, the origional kickstarter was just for a squadron 42 game and that would of been much easier and quicker to complete than having to create a PU also.

The game will get finished, it may take a little longer but it should be worth the wait, there is plenty of other games to play in the meantime and once 3.0 is released then the game should start proceeding a little faster.

[Sezerek]

Star citizen is doing the complete package, all other games similar are just bolting things on afterwards at much less quality.

Star citizen worlds are hand crafted where as every other game is just an equation to produce a mass amount of worlds which no real difference on them.

The level of detail in everything in the game is far ahead of anything these other games put out.

Yes its taking a long time to be made but its well on time if you gave the game a proper development time from the beginning, 5-7 years is the usual time you would need and its just into year 6, and im sure it should be almost ready by around the year 8 mark.

Im happy to wait longer for a complete game and not some half assed conception like all other games before.

This game will be a fully immersive space game where as the others are just realsonable facilities of what a space game should be, there is more detail in some of the large ships in SC then there is in the complete game of ED and NMS of which i have played both.

Some features you may think are not relevant but without all the little things you wouldn't get a proper experience, squadron 42 will most likely launch ahead of the PU so people can get stuck in while they complete the PU, the origional kickstarter was just for a squadron 42 game and that would of been much easier and quicker to complete than having to create a PU also.

The game will get finished, it may take a little longer but it should be worth the wait, there is plenty of other games to play in the meantime and once 3.0 is released then the game should start proceeding a little faster.

Damn the Kool-Aid is strong with this one.

[1001]

... there is more detail in some of the large ships in SC then there is in the complete game of ED and NMS of which i have played both.

Lol frak off.

... the origional kickstarter was just for a squadron 42 game and that would of been much easier and quicker to complete than having to create a PU also.

False. The kickstarter was always for SQ42 and a persistant universe hosted by CIG (the MMO).

[Majestic12]

I rewatched the demo this morning. There's just a really... fake atmosphere about everything that I can't shake.
Scripted events, players looking at the Rover and when it bugs out, the player quickly looks away as if he's been instructed to hide it. It wasn't as bad as the Morrow tour when the looking felt very unnatural, but it was still there. Chris complaining about loading screens being shown. It just seems like a very sensitive environment.

After the crash and the restart, you could really see the true state of the game. AI bugging out all of a sudden.

Everything about the demo is handcrafted and carefully nitpicked to be presented as functioning when it is not.

The fact that Chris said the super 3.0 would be out last december... Rofl. This alone should make people worried of the state of the project. They can't finish it.

[ro9ue]

I was super bored of that demo. That's just me though.

[KyrtF]

Star citizen is doing the complete package, all other games similar are just bolting things on afterwards at much less quality.

Yes, and that is part of the problem. CIG are working on the furnishings and decor while the foundations are still being built and they haven't measured to ensure the furniture will fit.

Star citizen worlds are hand crafted

There are no SC worlds yet. As to what degree they will be handcrafted...CIG have ambitious plans, not much else and plans for procedural generation of certain aspects of the game.

The level of detail in everything in the game is far ahead of anything these other games put out.

Which can be good or it can be bad.

Yes its taking a long time to be made but its well on time if you gave the game a proper development time from the beginning, 5-7 years is the usual time you would need and its just into year 6, and im sure it should be almost ready by around the year 8 mark.

Which would be fine IF...

A. CIG and CR didn't keep putting out release dates they kept overshooting. We were told 3.0 was to be the big end of year release in 2016....it is now supposed to be October and some are saying December isn't impossible.
B.CIG and CR didn't keep diverting resources away from the games foundations and pushing cosmetic areas instead. Say what you will about FOIP, it is a non essential part of the game. Meanwhile graphics and animations are still dodgy and the network code on which many of these new features will depend has been delayed till 3.1 at least.
C. It took HG with 16 developers just 3 years to develop an engine and create a game around it that offers much of what SC will eventually feature. It took FD about the same amount of time to develop ED. Scrapping the first year of development for SC still leaves SC as under development for FIVE years now. CIG still haven't finished work on the engine and the all important network code still isn't done. They have a staff of 400...more than FD and HG combined. They have a budget of $150 million and more.

But in five years of development...benefit of the doubt; say four once they scrapped the third party stuff...they haven't even come close to providing what either HG or FD were able to do in just three.

They have lots of ships they are selling off. They have several tech demos. They have handcrafted scenarios they roll out at the cons.

But the game right now is missing most of the basic mechanics, it needs a graphics and animation overhaul, it needs the engine completed and the network code installed and they're busy pushing lip sync?!

This game will be a fully immersive space game where as the others are just realsonable facilities of what a space game should be, there is more detail in some of the large ships in SC then there is in the complete game of ED and NMS of which i have played both.

Detail alone does not make a game.

Some features you may think are not relevant but without all the little things you wouldn't get a proper experience, squadron 42 will most likely launch ahead of the PU so people can get stuck in while they complete the PU, the origional kickstarter was just for a squadron 42 game and that would of been much easier and quicker to complete than having to create a PU also.

S42 needs working netcode. S42 needs a working flight model. S42 needs various ships and other equipment. S42 needs working animation, graphics. Most of what S42 needs is being worked on as part of SC.

When its ready for SC, it'll be ready for S42.

The alternative is that CIG are developing a totally different engine and universe for S42 rather than pooling teams to cut costs.

The game will get finished, it may take a little longer but it should be worth the wait, there is plenty of other games to play in the meantime and once 3.0 is released then the game should start proceeding a little faster.

I'm certain the game will eventually get released. But it needs to be a lot better than the mess we saw yesterday.

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I rewatched the demo this morning. There's just a really... fake atmosphere about everything that I can't shake.
Scripted events, players looking at the Rover and when it bugs out, the player quickly looks away as if he's been instructed to hide it. It wasn't as bad as the Morrow tour when the looking felt very unnatural, but it was still there. Chris complaining about loading screens being shown. It just seems like a very sensitive environment.

After the crash and the restart, you could really see the true state of the game. AI bugging out all of a sudden.

Everything about the demo is handcrafted and carefully nitpicked to be presented as functioning when it is not.

The fact that Chris said the super 3.0 would be out last december... Rofl. This alone should make people worried of the state of the project. They can't finish it.

Thing is...bugs are to be expected. Especially in an Alpha. But for an event like this, you NEED to use a relatively stable build and the event should be scripted to avoid the bugs. None of those disasters we saw should have been shown on a properly run event. Yes...things happen but too many things just happened to easily shrug off. Some such as graphical glitches can be shrugged off but others such as John bugging out cannot.

And yes. I was wondering why CR was so irritated by the loading screen myself. I could see why he might want to hide the disaster that was the crash...but watching it, I had the impression he was trying to hide something with his insistence not to show the loading screen and walking around with his hand over the mic? Not good. Yes...he was probably just telling them to show the ship sale again but it still left a very poor impression. And didn't really explain why he wanted the loading screen hidden

[Lorianus]

Best thing that could happen is them running out of money and microsoft buying them out und salvaging the thing into a proper game so that the endless feature creep that Chris Roberts is doing is put to an end, just like they did with freelancer, SC has the same things written all over it just like 20 years ago, that Chris Roberts is again the Game Director is just pure irony.

[Demoncrash]

The Faceware stuff looked interesting but i wonder if it'll work with people who wear glasses.

[masterhorus8]

The Faceware stuff looked interesting but i wonder if it'll work with people who wear glasses.

There was a screenshot that showed it working on 2 people with normal glasses. As long as there isn't any glare and you're eyes are visible, it should work.