[Megathread] Star Citizen

[ro9ue]

I was super bored of that demo. That's just me though.

[KyrtF]

Star citizen is doing the complete package, all other games similar are just bolting things on afterwards at much less quality.

Yes, and that is part of the problem. CIG are working on the furnishings and decor while the foundations are still being built and they haven't measured to ensure the furniture will fit.

Star citizen worlds are hand crafted

There are no SC worlds yet. As to what degree they will be handcrafted...CIG have ambitious plans, not much else and plans for procedural generation of certain aspects of the game.

The level of detail in everything in the game is far ahead of anything these other games put out.

Which can be good or it can be bad.

Yes its taking a long time to be made but its well on time if you gave the game a proper development time from the beginning, 5-7 years is the usual time you would need and its just into year 6, and im sure it should be almost ready by around the year 8 mark.

Which would be fine IF...

A. CIG and CR didn't keep putting out release dates they kept overshooting. We were told 3.0 was to be the big end of year release in 2016....it is now supposed to be October and some are saying December isn't impossible.
B.CIG and CR didn't keep diverting resources away from the games foundations and pushing cosmetic areas instead. Say what you will about FOIP, it is a non essential part of the game. Meanwhile graphics and animations are still dodgy and the network code on which many of these new features will depend has been delayed till 3.1 at least.
C. It took HG with 16 developers just 3 years to develop an engine and create a game around it that offers much of what SC will eventually feature. It took FD about the same amount of time to develop ED. Scrapping the first year of development for SC still leaves SC as under development for FIVE years now. CIG still haven't finished work on the engine and the all important network code still isn't done. They have a staff of 400...more than FD and HG combined. They have a budget of $150 million and more.

But in five years of development...benefit of the doubt; say four once they scrapped the third party stuff...they haven't even come close to providing what either HG or FD were able to do in just three.

They have lots of ships they are selling off. They have several tech demos. They have handcrafted scenarios they roll out at the cons.

But the game right now is missing most of the basic mechanics, it needs a graphics and animation overhaul, it needs the engine completed and the network code installed and they're busy pushing lip sync?!

This game will be a fully immersive space game where as the others are just realsonable facilities of what a space game should be, there is more detail in some of the large ships in SC then there is in the complete game of ED and NMS of which i have played both.

Detail alone does not make a game.

Some features you may think are not relevant but without all the little things you wouldn't get a proper experience, squadron 42 will most likely launch ahead of the PU so people can get stuck in while they complete the PU, the origional kickstarter was just for a squadron 42 game and that would of been much easier and quicker to complete than having to create a PU also.

S42 needs working netcode. S42 needs a working flight model. S42 needs various ships and other equipment. S42 needs working animation, graphics. Most of what S42 needs is being worked on as part of SC.

When its ready for SC, it'll be ready for S42.

The alternative is that CIG are developing a totally different engine and universe for S42 rather than pooling teams to cut costs.

The game will get finished, it may take a little longer but it should be worth the wait, there is plenty of other games to play in the meantime and once 3.0 is released then the game should start proceeding a little faster.

I'm certain the game will eventually get released. But it needs to be a lot better than the mess we saw yesterday.

- - - Updated - - -

I rewatched the demo this morning. There's just a really... fake atmosphere about everything that I can't shake.
Scripted events, players looking at the Rover and when it bugs out, the player quickly looks away as if he's been instructed to hide it. It wasn't as bad as the Morrow tour when the looking felt very unnatural, but it was still there. Chris complaining about loading screens being shown. It just seems like a very sensitive environment.

After the crash and the restart, you could really see the true state of the game. AI bugging out all of a sudden.

Everything about the demo is handcrafted and carefully nitpicked to be presented as functioning when it is not.

The fact that Chris said the super 3.0 would be out last december... Rofl. This alone should make people worried of the state of the project. They can't finish it.

Thing is...bugs are to be expected. Especially in an Alpha. But for an event like this, you NEED to use a relatively stable build and the event should be scripted to avoid the bugs. None of those disasters we saw should have been shown on a properly run event. Yes...things happen but too many things just happened to easily shrug off. Some such as graphical glitches can be shrugged off but others such as John bugging out cannot.

And yes. I was wondering why CR was so irritated by the loading screen myself. I could see why he might want to hide the disaster that was the crash...but watching it, I had the impression he was trying to hide something with his insistence not to show the loading screen and walking around with his hand over the mic? Not good. Yes...he was probably just telling them to show the ship sale again but it still left a very poor impression. And didn't really explain why he wanted the loading screen hidden

[Lorianus]

Best thing that could happen is them running out of money and microsoft buying them out und salvaging the thing into a proper game so that the endless feature creep that Chris Roberts is doing is put to an end, just like they did with freelancer, SC has the same things written all over it just like 20 years ago, that Chris Roberts is again the Game Director is just pure irony.

[Demoncrash]

The Faceware stuff looked interesting but i wonder if it'll work with people who wear glasses.

[masterhorus8]

The Faceware stuff looked interesting but i wonder if it'll work with people who wear glasses.

There was a screenshot that showed it working on 2 people with normal glasses. As long as there isn't any glare and you're eyes are visible, it should work.

[Demoncrash]

There was a screenshot that showed it working on 2 people with normal glasses. As long as there isn't any glare and you're eyes are visible, it should work.

Good to know. Would love to try that tech in other games. Though i imagine it might take some time to get used to it.

Either ways, its nice to see VR like head tracking without needing a headset.

[KyrtF]

Good to know. Would love to try that tech in other games. Though i imagine it might take some time to get used to it.

Either ways, its nice to see VR like head tracking without needing a headset.

Its been doable for quite some time. Its basically the XBox Kinect.

The problem other developers had with the system is that its one time to have head turning when the screen stays in front of you...VR....and another to have head turning when turning your head means you aren't looking at the screen anymore.

[masterhorus8]

By the way, for those thinking that the FOIP is feature creep, it has been a thing since at least Sep 2013. Not saying it should've gone in now (honestly, probably should've been a while...), but it has been in the works for quite some time. Long enough for it to be a Wingman's Hangar video.
Source: 39 seconds in

[WoWGoneBad]

I have been following this game for several years now and I feel that this is getting to be a very similar landscape.

I feel like this game is going the way of FireFall. You pay money to get a beta play and you keep playing while they keep developing but there is no real definitive release date of the game and it is in a steady state of Beta flux.

The Space combat is amazing from videos I have seen and the ships and AI look great as well. But I cant help but shake the feeling of FireFall part Deux. I have seen some packages and am really tempted in backing, but I have to ask....

I refuse to go through 227 pages of reviews, debates, arguments and such. From those that have backed and played what they could, how is its current state and do you feel that a release is on the horizon of the next 5 years or so? I can afford to drop 100 on the game but I need to have a feel from those that actually played what is available.

[masterhorus8]

I have been following this game for several years now and I feel that this is getting to be a very similar landscape.

I feel like this game is going the way of FireFall. You pay money to get a beta play and you keep playing while they keep developing but there is no real definitive release date of the game and it is in a steady state of Beta flux.

The Space combat is amazing from videos I have seen and the ships and AI look great as well. But I cant help but shake the feeling of FireFall part Deux. I have seen some packages and am really tempted in backing, but I have to ask....

I refuse to go through 227 pages of reviews, debates, arguments and such. From those that have backed and played what they could, how is its current state and do you feel that a release is on the horizon of the next 5 years or so? I can afford to drop 100 on the game but I need to have a feel from those that actually played what is available.

Ehh, probably wait. I'm surprised that there wasn't one this last week/weekend, but around this time of year (from about now to around Christmas, barring patch releases), CIG tends to do some Free Fly events. You'd only be required to make an account and pay nothing, and you can download the current patch (2.6.3) and play to your hearts content, unless the servers say "no" (networking problems will be fixed in a future™ patch, supposedly 3.1). Probably by the end of the year, patch 3.0 will release, and I would expect a Free Fly event with that. A lot of people want to consider 3.0 the start of beta, but that would likely be the end of the 3.x patches.

At the moment, there's dogfighting, fps, a few missions, some space stations, and a small chunk of a star system available. No persistence yet, but that is going to be part of the 3.0 release. 3.0 is supposed to include planetary landing (currently only moons), some more moons added, character customization, new item system, some more missions, cargo stuff, some more ships, some more fps stuff, performance improvement (NOT network), and some other stuff (old post, but most of it is still there).

Right now, they're in the process of bugfixing to get it to a releasable state for release. https://robertsspaceindustries.com/schedule-report

Don't bother putting any money in unless you're confident that you're willing to wait for eventual release without getting cold feet and requesting a refund and really wanting to keep playing the development patches. But even then, at least wait for a free fly event first.

[KyrtF]

I have been following this game for several years now and I feel that this is getting to be a very similar landscape.

I feel like this game is going the way of FireFall. You pay money to get a beta play and you keep playing while they keep developing but there is no real definitive release date of the game and it is in a steady state of Beta flux.

The Space combat is amazing from videos I have seen and the ships and AI look great as well. But I cant help but shake the feeling of FireFall part Deux. I have seen some packages and am really tempted in backing, but I have to ask....

I refuse to go through 227 pages of reviews, debates, arguments and such. From those that have backed and played what they could, how is its current state and do you feel that a release is on the horizon of the next 5 years or so? I can afford to drop 100 on the game but I need to have a feel from those that actually played what is available.

I'll give you the same advice I'd hive anyone else.

First...I do not believe this is a scam. CIG are developing this game.
Second...if they get it right, it'll be an amazing experience
Third...its getting harder to ignore the likelihood that they are stringing out development to maximise their current money maker - ship sales.

Should you "drop a hundred" on it?
No. I would estimate the game will be out late 2020, 2021 (at the earliest) myself but the game is years away from being release viable. There is still a huge amount of work to do and CIG don't have a rep for speed.

I would advise you to try the next free fly weekends when they are advertised. That should give you an idea of what is happening.

But I wouldn't recommend spending any money on the game till after its released.

[Majestic12]

By the way, for those thinking that the FOIP is feature creep, it has been a thing since at least Sep 2013. Not saying it should've gone in now (honestly, probably should've been a while...), but it has been in the works for quite some time. Long enough for it to be a Wingman's Hangar video.
Source: 39 seconds in

That's my only problem with foip. It's basically icing added to a cake that doesn't exist yet. All these integrated systems only push stability further and further away. Now they're going to try to integrate Spectrum into 3.0 and move all the voice/face traffic there instead of the game client. Let's just say that 3.0 is still extremely far away and Chris was delusional when he said December.

- - - Updated - - -

I have been following this game for several years now and I feel that this is getting to be a very similar landscape.

I feel like this game is going the way of FireFall. You pay money to get a beta play and you keep playing while they keep developing but there is no real definitive release date of the game and it is in a steady state of Beta flux.

The Space combat is amazing from videos I have seen and the ships and AI look great as well. But I cant help but shake the feeling of FireFall part Deux. I have seen some packages and am really tempted in backing, but I have to ask....

I refuse to go through 227 pages of reviews, debates, arguments and such. From those that have backed and played what they could, how is its current state and do you feel that a release is on the horizon of the next 5 years or so? I can afford to drop 100 on the game but I need to have a feel from those that actually played what is available.

Honestly? The release within 5 years depends on which game you mean. Squadron 42 is the Single player game which will be released first. You'll see that within 5 years. The MMO I wouldn't count on it.

Don't buy into the game now. Wait for a free flight week so you can try the game.

[Odeezee]

i really enjoyed the Gamescom content that we got to see last week. from the 3.0 demo on the show floor my favorite part was the devs showing the Release and Catch from low orbit. if no one has seen this i highly recommend it.

https://clips.twitch.tv/AffluentGenerousBisonYouDontSay

as for the live presentation i enjoyed the content; the FOIP (including directional sound and head tracking) was really awesome (it's good to see a stretch goal met) and has great immersive potential for sure, the Mobiglas apps were really great to see and it will be the one stop shop for pretty much anything and everything to do with the game (without taking you out of the game - i hope we get mini-game apps hooked in in the future), Levski looked great and it was good to see that the base level of subsumption was in and working (the seated NPC followed the players character and he walked around near him) even though it hd some glitches (one of the bar patrons unable to walk past his stool - or was he just crazy drunk and it was an intended consequence? haha), Miles Eckhart looks sooooo much better than last year from his look to his facial expression (job well done to CIG for that and looking forward to the branching missions and the 26 different archetypes that will spawn them just have to hope they feel different enough from one another to warrant the splitting), the Connie looked amazing and brand spanking new, loved the shots of it (though i would love for them to put in different trails based on which engines you were using like i want QD jumps to show a different glow in the engines, etc), Daymar looked just as good as shown on the show floor, the Idrisi look really great and i loved the weighty feel to them (great job on those) and i am looking forward to the 10+ hour long tour of one when we finally get on in the PU/SQ2.

yes, there was a crash, issues with the Idris ramp (pilot should have either chosen flatter ground or as we learned from the show floor "turned off" the engines to avoid the de-syncing and clipping issues of the ramp), some heavy scripting involved and QA roleplaying banter going on (personally i enjoyed it and found Melissa to be funny in a quirky way, i would have liked it more though if they were not talking over each other or being interrupted by CR) but CR did let us know before the stream started to expect bugs so i feel as though with that said the bugs are an irrelevance for me. i got to see the framework that we will get to experience SC in when we get 3.0 and beyond and i am looking forward to put it through it's paces once we do!

for those who want a more sanitised version of the presentation including no banter you can watch this:

[KyrtF]

i really enjoyed the Gamescom content that we got to see last week.

It was OK. I was disappointed that there was nothing more substantial shown. Maybe at CitizenCon.

as for the live presentation i enjoyed the content; the FOIP (including directional sound and head tracking) was really awesome

Case on point. FOIP is flashy...if they get it working...but today wasn't the right time to be adding it. Its a cosmetic aspect of the game and the game needs too much work carried out to its foundation for me to wrlcome it now. I personally would have preferred working netcode and confirmation their work on the actual game engine was finished. Then there is the work that is necessary on what are to be the planned gameplay mechanics. And more. There is so much still left to do and I find it concerning that CIG found time to add in a cosmetic feature that will sell webcams as opposed to actual game mechanics.

And far from looking good, I felt the demo highlighted how SCs lead had vanished. The worlds looked great....but the characters and ships felt average at best. And lets not talk about FOIP...it might be "impressive" when its working, but right now it still needs a lot of work. The character models aren't good enough to get away with it right now.

es, there was a crash, issues with the Idris ramp (pilot should have either chosen flatter ground or as we learned from the show floor "turned off" the engines to avoid the de-syncing and clipping issues of the ramp), some heavy scripting involved and QA roleplaying banter going on (personally i enjoyed it and found Melissa to be funny in a quirky way, i would have liked it more though if they were not talking over each other or being interrupted by CR) but CR did let us know before the stream started to expect bugs so i feel as though with that said the bugs are an irrelevance for me. i got to see the framework that we will get to experience SC in when we get 3.0 and beyond and i am looking forward to put it through it's paces once we do!

EVERYONE is looking forward to 3.0

As for the crash...let's be accurate.

This was...I expect...a heavily scripted handcrafted demo designed and tested specifically for Gamescom, running on the most powerful PCs CIG could provide and running on a network designed to minimise lag and latency issues. CIG had tested it and designed it in such a way so as to avoid the players triggering any bugs, especially bugs serious enough to trigger a crash.

Yet it still crashed. One can't excuse that simply by telling us it was an Alpha. Alpha means we should expect bugs....which is why CIG should have taken special care to provide a demo which was stable enough and scripted enough and tested enough to avoid such issues.

That means either the build is less stable than CIG believed, there are more bugs than CIG believed or they don't care enough to do this properly.

And that was in addition to the sync issues, graphical glitches, animation and FPS issues and other problems that were on display. It puts in context the new planned release date of October as very necessary and raises the possibility that those saying 3.0 will indeed be an end of year release...just EOY 2017 instead of EOY 2016...with the rumoured December release date are correct.

And no.....the ramp issue cannot and should not be dismissed with the excuse of "the pilot should have chosen flatter ground".

[Odeezee]

talk about EPIC! really loved watching these parts especially, among others ofc.





what parts did other people enjoy from the livestream or showfloor at Gamescom?

[WoWGoneBad]

This was an interesting watch. The visuals were good, the combat was decent and the ships look great so far. I think I will need to keep more of an eye on this game

[Odeezee]

This was an interesting watch. The visuals were good, the combat was decent and the ships look great so far. I think I will need to keep more of an eye on this game

yeah, it shows great promise if they can add, bug fix, polish and make fun all the gameplay elements they want to include for full release. i would also watch out for any Free-Fly Weekends (might get one when they release Update Alpha Patch 3.0 to the PU alpha testbed for backers) and try it out for yourself. just keep in mind that the game is still in early alpha so it will be buggy and missing many features/mechanics, but they will come and the main point of the alpha is for feedback.

[sabe]

I wonder how much money and dev time they wasted for scripted games on demo.
Makes me think CIG is going broke. They are trying so hard to make more money.
I won't be surprised if they start selling ships for half the price soon.

[Cyclone Jack]

I wonder how much money and dev time they wasted for scripted games on demo.
Makes me think CIG is going broke. They are trying so hard to make more money.
I won't be surprised if they start selling ships for half the price soon.

No more than every other demo made by every other developer at a trade show. That's how demos at trade shows work. They are scripted and rehearsed and typically have more polish put in place for the areas that will be shown.

[Majestic12]

talk about EPIC! really loved watching these parts especially, among others ofc.





what parts did other people enjoy from the livestream or showfloor at Gamescom?

Out of all the things, I'd say the Idris vs Idris prelude. The interaction between the two ships. That accurately represents how the MMO would be if you see a player(and they pick up).