1. #4961
    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    Its awesome that they have steady funding, and all the videos are cool as shit. But my question remains.

    What will happen when the one million bakers or how many they are, meet the other 500k when the game launches and becomes success? The argument there are plenty youtube videos that show 10 players together is very weak. Im trying to find good points in this game and all i see is doom and gloom, delays and vague tech details.

    If im not delusional this game launches as an mmo. Single player games today have modes for 10-20 ppl not mmos. And ill ask again. What will happen when me and my 4 friends stamp uppon a group of 3 friends that bounty hunt a group of another 10 friends and all hell breaks loose? And most important what will happen when inevitably players will gather in home planets (think of dalaran in wow) and thousands upon thousands with come together?

    I see 3 things happening. Either they will shard hundreds of players to diff phases (not sure if a single server can divide it self to multiple shards), either they will create such a vast enviroment and so huge that its almost impossible lots of players to meet up, or simply as someone said we cant do any of the above yet and the tech will be there after 3-4 years and thousands upon thousands dollars or eu on pc upgrades. I could see the first option to work but option 2 and 3 will burry the game the first 6 months of release.

    Just remember what happend back in the old days of stone age of pcs when colin mcray launched. Only one card could play it and costed more than pcs. Dune 2 the emperors or whatever was called. Noone played it at least 2-3 months after release cause there was no card that could support it. Crysis anyone? If they go the same road as a business plan that our players should have next gen pcs that havent been invented yet as we speaks then......

    I dunno i baked on this game and actually im from the very first ppl that donated, the era that almost noone knew about this game and i havent logged for a very long time, a year or so ago. I really hope it goes well and even if it launches with half features will be a great game.
    Well if we can account the current Evocati news they are working on 40-60 player/server, but they are using cloud servers and server mesh - means there is seamless transition from one server shard to others, and if theres a crowd then more servers step in to divide the workload, if theres no crowd the number of assigned servers for one particular place will go down.

  2. #4962
    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilan View Post
    If people like MrAnderson are anything to go by, the CIG Faithful will literally be mortgaging their homes and selling their internal organs to fund continued "development" of Star Citizen. The True Believers are not emotionally equipped to even consider that their dreams may not come true exactly as the Prophet Roberts has declared.

    My initial interest in this game back in 2013/2014 was as a return to the glory days of early/mid 90's space combat sims. A genre that Chris Roberts basically defined. My interests in SC nowadays are purely on the unstoppable trainwreck of a project that has devolved into a highly lucrative scam and the staggering display of naivety on display by many of its diehard backers.
    If people like Nihilan are anything to go by, the CIG haters will literally be jumping off cliffs or will start selling their internal organs to fund a huge habitable cave's to live in while Star Citizen keeps on being developed and successful. The True Haters are not emotionally equipped to deal with the fact that a game of this magnitude can be pulled off, specially by Sir. Chris Roberts and CIG, a indie company created by sheer gamers will and effort.

    My initial interest in this game back in 2012 was to help make a game neglected by the industry usual's. Since one of the genre defining father's, Chris Roberts was having a go at it I choose to back it. My interest in SC nowadays is as strong as ever, seeing this "dream" game come to life bit by bit thanks to the staggering support of gamers from around the world is not only a blessing for the gaming world but a continuous slap in the face of the diehard haters and doubters that are feasting their throats with crow-pie.

    What a time to be a live.
    Last edited by MrAnderson; 2017-11-13 at 10:43 PM.

  3. #4963
    Quote Originally Posted by MrAnderson View Post
    If people like Nihilan are anything to go by, the CIG haters will literally be jumping off cliffs or will start selling their internal organs to fund a huge habitable cave's to live in while Star Citizen keeps on being developed and successful. The True Haters are not emotionally equipped to deal with the fact that a game of this magnitude can be pulled off, specially by Sir. Chris Roberts and CIG, a indie company created by sheer gamers will and effort.
    Again with the "Criticism = Hate". Is it not possible to be simply critical of the work CIG are doing without being labelled by yourself as a "hater"?

    My initial interest in this game back in 2012 was to help make a game neglected by the industry usual's. Since one of the genre defining father's, Chris Roberts was having a go at it I choose to back it. My interest in SC nowadays is as strong as ever, seeing this "dream" game come to life bit by bit thanks to the staggering support of gamers from around the world is not only a blessing for the gaming world but a continuous slap in the face of the diehard haters and doubters that are feasting their throats with crow-pie.
    Criticism is not the same as "hate" or "want to fail". I, for one, would be overjoyed to discover I am wrong. I'd have a new game to play...for only £50.

    At the same time...I ain't blind to CIGs fault or the problems that Star Citizen is facing an I recall enough about development to know that CIG is storing up a huge amount of technical debt, made worse by its failure to adhere to "best practise" for development. But any time anyone tries to get you to address these issues, you simply label them a hater and ignore the point. I'm still waiting to see which one of the points I raised was a "half truth" or for you to list a true innovation by CIG.

    To put it another way...you didn't back this game in 2012. You backed a very different game, a game that was a spiritual successor to Wing Commander. That game is effectively dead; we'll have to wait and see if the promised S42 show revives it. Now, you are supporting a very different game that simply shares the same name. Chris Roberts may have been one of that genres defining fathers - though that is stretching things as he arrived ten years after the genre was invented; Elite, 3D Starstrike, Starion, even 3D Space Attack and other games arrived first - but he is not and never has been involved with an MMO. Which is the genre currently being focussed on.

    You seem to be thinking that Star Citizen is a very different game from what is currently being worked on. It's an MMO life simulator set in space where you can fly ships, fight and trade. Not a space combat game. Chris Roberts has NO experience developing that type of game and it shows

  4. #4964
    Quote Originally Posted by KyrtF View Post
    Again with the "Criticism = Hate". Is it not possible to be simply critical of the work CIG are doing without being labelled by yourself as a "hater"?
    Criticism is not the same as "hate" or "want to fail". I, for one, would be overjoyed to discover I am wrong. I'd have a new game to play...for only £50.

    At the same time...I ain't blind to CIGs fault or the problems that Star Citizen is facing an I recall enough about development to know that CIG is storing up a huge amount of technical debt, made worse by its failure to adhere to "best practise" for development. But any time anyone tries to get you to address these issues, you simply label them a hater and ignore the point. I'm still waiting to see which one of the points I raised was a "half truth" or for you to list a true innovation by CIG.

    To put it another way...you didn't back this game in 2012. You backed a very different game, a game that was a spiritual successor to Wing Commander. That game is effectively dead; we'll have to wait and see if the promised S42 show revives it. Now, you are supporting a very different game that simply shares the same name. Chris Roberts may have been one of that genres defining fathers - though that is stretching things as he arrived ten years after the genre was invented; Elite, 3D Starstrike, Starion, even 3D Space Attack and other games arrived first - but he is not and never has been involved with an MMO. Which is the genre currently being focussed on.

    You seem to be thinking that Star Citizen is a very different game from what is currently being worked on. It's an MMO life simulator set in space where you can fly ships, fight and trade. Not a space combat game. Chris Roberts has NO experience developing that type of game and it shows
    That's where you are wrong, completely wrong, like usual. I never played Wing Commander, I never played Freelancer, I didn't even knew who Chris Roberts was before knowing Star Citizen.

    What I knew was that PC gaming had come to an halt and that "console gaming" was the "cutting edge" at the time. All I wanted was to support a project that would make no compromises at all and push PC Gaming and technology forward by attempting something a bit more risky and advanced than the norm.

    Star Citizen and Chris Roberts provide just that, they don't care about delays they don't care about the lame asses that say "It cant be done", "It's too risky", "It's too ambitious" yada yada yada...

    It's not about "being blind" about criticism, I know there are troubles, delays and problems in game development, ALL Game Development goes through it. It's an integral part of it and We backers are not oblivious about them in Star Citizen, we just choose to accept them, not because we are blind but because we UNDERSTAND that they are part of the process.

    Exibit A: "The Witcher 3 Development Problems"


    Exibit B: "Titan aka Overwatch"


    Exibit C: "Uncharted - The Dark Days"


    I don't give a shit about mere "space games", and neither does the gaming community, that's why Elite is rotting in lalaland and people consume SW Battlefronts like bubble gum, eat and spit out after a while.

    Any concern you feel the need to provide to try to "enlighten" us is useless bullshit, and you know why? Because it can be said about ANY game in development. It's that thick that you think the gaming world problems are focused on Star Citizen and it's development. This little crusade of yours not only showcases your lunacy and lack of knowledge but bias against a development team that it's trying to push things forward with the backing of it's community.

    You say it cant be done and that it shouldn't be done. I'm just happy that they are trying it and that they let me join the process. If you don't like or agree just step aside and go play with your kids or something, make yourself relevant by actually doing something positive instead of incarnating the Debbie Downer&Negative Nancy twins.

    For a simple dose of much needed perspective. You a self confessed non-backer of Star Citizen care more about "dates, delays, promises" than We, the actual backers who support the game and have put money into it. Take a good look at the mirror and contemplate the absurdity of that contradiction.


  5. #4965
    Quote Originally Posted by MrAnderson View Post
    That's where you are wrong, completely wrong, like usual. I never played Wing Commander, I never played Freelancer, I didn't even knew who Chris Roberts was before knowing Star Citizen.
    I'm sorry - but now you aren't making sense.

    If - as you say - you didn't know who Chris Roberts was, then why would his supposed status as "one of the genre defining father's" have any possible impact on you?
    Especially since he wasn't one of the genres defining fathers.

    What I knew was that PC gaming had come to an halt and that "console gaming" was the "cutting edge" at the time. All I wanted was to support a project that would make no compromises at all and push PC Gaming and technology forward by attempting something a bit more risky and advanced than the norm.
    By funding a game that still required Chris Roberts to seek out publishers and investors? That's what the Kickstarter was for...he needed to show publishers there was a demand. He didn't plan on going without a publisher until it was fully funded at about $25 million...and again fully funded at about $60 million and again, fully funded at about $100 million.

    Your "no compromise" approach had Chris Roberts working with publishers and following the same publication model that Elite Dangerous is using.

    Star Citizen and Chris Roberts provide just that, they don't care about delays they don't care about the lame asses that say "It cant be done", "It's too risky", "It's too ambitious" yada yada yada...
    The problem with delays is simple...they cost money. They costs a LOT of money. Software development, especially for a "AAA" game is ludicrously expensive.
    If they don't care about delays, they aren't fit to run the project. Given the way they've mishandled the game to date, that seems likely to be the case anyway.

    Put simply - Patch 3.0 was supposed to be ready by December. Four months work or so. More than a year later, still no 3.0 and 3.0 has gone from 4 planets, a dozen moons and 40 stations to just four moons. That's about 7% of the promised content, and what they have is taking nearly 400% longer than planned. That's 400% more money to deliver 4 moons. And I'm being generous with Delamar.

    It's not about "being blind" about criticism, I know there are troubles, delays and problems in game development, ALL Game Development goes through it.
    Not every game goes through the troubles Star Citizen is experiencing. Most don't...largely because they have publishers who control feature creep and who would absolutely insist that CIG follow a standard development model, where they - as an example - create the game engine before game assets so they only need to develop those assets once, instead of constantly having to rewrite them.

    The ones that do experience they types of trouble that SC is having have a habit of not turning out so good. There is a reason games developers tend to create their engine, their common framework early in the development process and then build on it. It makes development cheaper, easier, quicker once they have that solid foundation. CIG still do not have that solid foundation. CIG are devoting time, money and manpower to creating assets such as ships that they will end up having to throw away.

    It's an integral part of it and We backers are not oblivious about them in Star Citizen, we just choose to accept them, not because we are blind but because we UNDERSTAND that they are part of the process.
    Building on an engine that isn't complete and forcing your engineers to redo work as one of the consequences isn't a normal part of the process. Its the type of process the industry moved away from decades ago


    I don't give a shit about mere "space games", and neither does the gaming community
    Yes...SC will be a niche game.


    Because it can be said about ANY game in development. It's that thick that you think the gaming world problems are focused on Star Citizen and it's development. This little crusade of yours not only showcases your lunacy and lack of knowledge but bias against a development team that it's trying to push things forward with the backing of it's community.
    What have CIG driven forward? You and others keep saying they are innovating and producing ground breaking new tech...but you haven't come up with any examples. Not one. Everything you've mentioned has been done before. They aren't innovating...they are copying.

    There's nothing wrong with that. Some of the best games around are refinements of an existing idea. But it isn't innovation. It isn't pushing forward.

    You say it cant be done and that it shouldn't be done.
    No. I say it can be done. I just say that it SHOULD be done...and that a competent team would have already created the game at a fraction of the money CIG has spent to date. A competent team would have developed an engine first avoiding the need to rework code. It would have established the systems specs it needed and developed the gameplay mechanics. One needs only look at some of the upcoming games such as Dual Universe that are already overtaking what Star Citizen has achieved...and done so with fewer devs and for less cost.

    CIG has almost literally burnt tens of millions and squandered years of development time because of incompetence. It is great to say that you can earn a profit on one fifth the turnover....but less impressive if you spend $20 creating what other teams require $1 to build.


    For a simple dose of much needed perspective. You a self confessed non-backer of Star Citizen care more about "dates, delays, promises" than We, the actual backers who support the game and have put money into it. Take a good look at the mirror and contemplate the absurdity of that contradiction.
    Yeah - I don't understand that. I have nothing to lose either way. Some backers stand to lose tens of thousands of dollars. But it seems all Chris Roberts has to do is show you a pretty picture and you're throwing money at him. I don't get where - or even how - you can are seeking accountability. Especially since he rewrote the TOS to remove what little you had. He creates carefully crafted PR pieces and you praise his openness and you give him even more money. He comes up with absurd notions such as "you have to wait 2 hours for a replacement ship unless you give us money" or "you need to spend time eating and drinking and sleeping" and he's the second coming and you can't give him money fast enough.

    And you never once ask yourself...this is a man who has thirty times the money he originally asked for, who hasn't met a deadline, who is still fundraising, and who has openly lied about the state of the game and he still draws in millions; what incentive does he have to actually finish? What is his reward for finishing the game?

  6. #4966
    Quote Originally Posted by KyrtF View Post
    TLDR = + bullshit
    Oh god, can you please stop making stuff up and use your time to watch some of the videos I posted just showcasing 3 massive games from massive companies and their troubles?

    If you want to discuss about Star Citizen and game development you must start to understand and acknowledge the very basic.
    This continuous retarded bullshit tactic of crying about delays, change of scope/features, or engine reworks are so dumb and ignorant that sometimes I think you are just trolling around. Specially since you aren't even a backer lol

    And please don't compare Frontier and Elite with CIG and Star Citizen. Frontier is has shareholders to cater to, they want profit above everything else.

    Braben/Frontier saw the impact of Chris Roberts / Star Citizen crowdfunding campaign and used that opportunity to bring back most of the Elite 4 work they had been developing for years and polish enough to release and make some quick bucks. That fountain drained really quick though. That's why it's development has stalled and the game continuous to be wide sandbox with no 1% sand 4% gameplay and the rest is space, boring space mind you lol.

    I suspect that's the reason you are here, reddit, frontier forum, mmorpg forum, and most of the commentary sections of any article about Star Citizen spilling bullshit Ad nauseam. You seem obsessed with the failure of Star Citizen, and envious by seeing it go and go, that seems to make you really really frustrated...
    There's a name for that I think it's the TallPoppySyndrom



    Sorry to say (no I'm not really) but it's about to get worse, much worse.

  7. #4967
    Quote Originally Posted by MrAnderson View Post
    Braben/Frontier saw the impact of Chris Roberts / Star Citizen crowdfunding campaign and used that opportunity to bring back most of the Elite 4 work they had been developing for years and polish enough to release and make some quick bucks. That fountain drained really quick though. That's why it's development has stalled and the game continuous to be wide sandbox with no 1% sand 4% gameplay and the rest is space, boring space mind you lol.
    You do realise this makes no sense whatsoever. If they brought back all the work they had done on Elite 4 why did they have so little to show at the kickstarter and why was the game bare bones at release?

    How does it explain this comment from the CEO



    To be honest Mr Anderson, you just sound really put out that there are other space games out there and seem to be throwing shit around in the hope that something sticks to the wall.

    Pretty pathetic in all honesty.

  8. #4968
    It's been a while since I posted in this thread but I'll ask again since it has been so long.

    Where are we at in this game?
    Are we close to a release date or is that still some imagined date we can only hope and dream for?

  9. #4969
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    It's been a while since I posted in this thread but I'll ask again since it has been so long.

    Where are we at in this game?
    Are we close to a release date or is that still some imagined date we can only hope and dream for?
    Nope, we are nowhere close to release date. I would give them at least 2 years. 3.0 patch in testing right now BTW.

  10. #4970
    Quote Originally Posted by Onvious View Post
    Nope, we are nowhere close to release date. I would give them at least 2 years. 3.0 patch in testing right now BTW.
    Shit! You really think another 2 years?

    Oh well. File this on in the back for a while I guess.

  11. #4971
    Quote Originally Posted by 1001 View Post
    You do realise this makes no sense whatsoever. If they brought back all the work they had done on Elite 4 why did they have so little to show at the kickstarter and why was the game bare bones at release?

    How does it explain this comment from the CEO



    To be honest Mr Anderson, you just sound really put out that there are other space games out there and seem to be throwing shit around in the hope that something sticks to the wall.

    Pretty pathetic in all honesty.
    Well because Frontier/Braben know very little about marketing and engaging gameplay actually. They showed nothing in the KS because they had nothing visual ready, their campaign was, like I said, also rushed to ride the wave of Star Citizen/Chris Roberts kickstart hype/popularity. They couldn't showcase visuals because they hadn't prepare those yet, they had lot of programming done on the sides and the $$$ from the KS campaign allowed to allocate funds for more art.

    And they had been working on Elite 4 for years but it's not a thing Braben would like to admit now when the money comes from shareholders lol. They rather prefer to be told that their money went on to all the games that frontier released and made them money instead of the ones that were stuck in the shelves for years costing the company money and generating nothing...

    Interview when Braben admits that Elite 4 is almost finished, back in 2008 lol:
    http://www.develop-online.net/news/e...braben/0103227

    More here so you can Have Fun: http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Elite_4_rumour_mill


  12. #4972
    Quote Originally Posted by MrAnderson View Post
    Oh god, can you please stop making stuff up
    By "making stuff up" you mean the truth.

    I've asked you before to point out which of my "half truths" were untrue. You called me a hater and tried to change the subject.

    Your videos are nice...but they also don't even offer a hint that any of the studios involved were incompetent to the point that they didn't have a game engine after six years or tried to develop Beta level assets for preAlpha work.

    There are complaints about long hours and low pay and high turnover...and, strangely enough, a vegetarian canteen. But I didn't hear anyone complain about the companies ignoring basic best practise for game development.


    If you want to discuss about Star Citizen and game development you must start to understand and acknowledge the very basic.
    This continuous retarded bullshit tactic of crying about delays, change of scope/features, or engine reworks are so dumb and ignorant that sometimes I think you are just trolling around. Specially since you aren't even a backer lol
    That I am not a backer doesn't affect technical truth. And I know far more about game development than you seem to think. It may have escaped your notice but a good few people who say bad things ARE professional game developers.

    Feature creep is bad. Change of scope is bad. Change of engine is bad. All of these should be done in PreProduction before major development starts.

    Chris Roberts changed a game in development. He did more than that...he changed its very genre. That is a huge fundamental change to the game and it SHOULD have required him to spend another year in pre production to get everything planned and tested. He didn't do that.

    And please...the irony of the "You don't understand game development" is not only that many if those this type of comment is directed to not only do understand game development but ARE game developers but that it is made by those who are trying to excuse poor development practise.

    Why are you so accepting, for example, of CRs incompetence that saw millions of dollars wasted when a lack of communication and oversight resulted in years of work by third parties thrown out?
    Why are you so accepting of CIGs focus on creating and polishing game assets (that should be created using a Beta build and not preAlpha) that will need to be thrown out later at additional cost in time and money?

    This type of activity is not normal for game development.



    And please don't compare Frontier and Elite with CIG and Star Citizen. Frontier is has shareholders to cater to, they want profit above everything else.
    You gave $160 million and more to Chris Roberts. But you then make this statement? Have you not at least glanced through CIGs financial reports?

    Chris is out for profit as well.

    Braben/Frontier saw the impact of Chris Roberts / Star Citizen crowdfunding campaign and used that opportunity to bring back most of the Elite 4 work they had been developing for years and polish enough to release and make some quick bucks. That fountain drained really quick though. That's why it's development has stalled and the game continuous to be wide sandbox with no 1% sand 4% gameplay and the rest is space, boring space mind you lol.
    This sentence bears so little resemblence to reality I don't know where to begin. It's a nice attempt to rewrite history though.

  13. #4973
    Quote Originally Posted by KyrtF View Post
    By "making stuff up" you mean the truth.
    You can't handle the truth, that's why you need to make stuff up lol.

    It's been 5/6 years since Star Citizen kickstarter campaign launched and generated millions of dollars.
    Why aren't other game companies releasing their sci-fi massive online universes to capitalize on that?

    They know there's a market for it with people willing to spend ridiculous amounts of cash yet no game comes close, Elite is fundamentally as boring as it was when released 4 years ago. Nothing you do in the universe matters.

    If it's so easy to pull off with "competent management" where is this game that so many people want to play lol?

    Oh and I didn't gave $160 million to Chris Roberts, last that I checked I don't have that kind of money, I've probably spent way less than what you have on Elite Dangerous and I already got more features available to play than you will ever will lol

    It's a nice attempt to cope with Star Citizen development this charade you got there but if you think I'm gonna splash in the mud with you about idiotic false "concerns" and hyperbolic "dramas" you're dead wrong as I have way better way's to spend my time

    Last edited by MrAnderson; 2017-11-14 at 07:00 PM.

  14. #4974
    Quote Originally Posted by MrAnderson View Post
    Well because Frontier/Braben know very little about marketing and engaging gameplay actually. They showed nothing in the KS because they had nothing visual ready, their campaign was, like I said, also rushed to ride the wave of Star Citizen/Chris Roberts kickstart hype/popularity.
    Which is really amusing when you consider that Braben has run his own business sucessfully for the last 20 odd years unlike another developer who had to sell to Microsoft. That Braben raised more money on his kickstarter than Star Citizen, that Frontier were the first UK business to engage in a kickstarter project and rather than it being coat-tailing they were actually waiting for Kickstarter to enable access for companies outside of the US.

    You talk about riding the tails of another project and yet who was it that released pupil to planet 1 day after Elite released their planetary expansion? Who was it that realised that landing zones was not going to cut it with all these other games doing full planetary exploration, who released a bunch of stuff about alien languages shortly after Elite's aliens appeared in the game and so on....

    Quote Originally Posted by MrAnderson View Post
    They couldn't showcase visuals because they hadn't prepare those yet, they had lot of programming done on the sides and the $$$ from the KS campaign allowed to allocate funds for more art.

    Which just shows your ignorance, they did show visuals. They had 2 ships chasing each other in an asteroid field, no sound, no detailed graphics etc clearly something put together for the kickstarter and not made 10 years or more before..

    Quote Originally Posted by MrAnderson View Post
    And they had been working on Elite 4 for years but it's not a thing Braben would like to admit now when the money comes from shareholders lol. They rather prefer to be told that their money went on to all the games that frontier released and made them money instead of the ones that were stuck in the shelves for years costing the company money and generating nothing...
    Oh of course, the internet guy knows more than the CEO...

    Quote Originally Posted by MrAnderson View Post
    Interview when Braben admits that Elite 4 is almost finished, back in 2008 lol:
    http://www.develop-online.net/news/e...braben/0103227
    Oh dear, so testing technology is now proof that they had a working game... wow that really is a stretch Mr Troll.


  15. #4975
    Quote Originally Posted by MrAnderson View Post
    You can't handle the truth, that's why you need to make stuff up lol.
    And yet once again you refuse to point which of my statements are untrue. Can you point to even one or are you forever going to rely on the "cast mud" routine.

    They know there's a market for it with people willing to spend ridiculous amounts of cash
    Because most other games can't rely on 2-3000 players throwing huge amounts of money at it for no effort or return. Which so far is all Star Citizen is doing. It is a model that is HIGHLY reliant on whales to keep it afloat, to ensure a steady income by..as an example...buying ships and subscribing. Most of those two million backers listed contribute nothing to the game. Half of them - myself included - represent people who signed up during free play weekends and paid nothing.

    Just look at the brouhaha around paid content for the new Star Wars game.

    Right now - CIG has a model that works, and which provides them with a good income stream. $2.5 million a month or so and they don't need to produce a thing other than some flashy demos that an amateur can turn out and some pretty pictures. Why would they give that up.

    Dr. Raymond Stantz: Personally, I liked working for the university! They gave us money and facilities. We didn't have to produce anything. You've never been out of college. You don't know what it's like out there! I've worked in the private sector... they expect results!


    Right now - CIG is selling a dream. They are manipulating peoples hopes. But companies like EA? People expect results. Other companies would not get away with half the stuff that you are letting Chris Roberts get away with. People would demand accountability and they would demand change.

    And to answer your question - the demand isn't there for a game like Star Citizen. What whales will give to CIG, they would never give to EA.


    Oh and I didn't gave $160 million to Chris Roberts, last that I checked I don't have that kind of money, I've probably spent way less than what you have on Elite Dangerous and I already got more features available to play than you will ever will lol
    You have no features. You have no game. You have no mechanics. You have no content. You have a glorified tech demo that uses assets most of which will need to be thrown away when the game gets into Alpha. And again when it gets to Beta. Or - as seems to be the case, but is much more expensive and time consuming - continuously reworked to ensure they retain compatibility within the ever changing game structure.

    Other than access to a tech demo, all you have you have is faith that CIG has more interest in finishing a game that will cost it millions to run, millions more to continue development, and whose income stream, already shrinking, will be slashed upon release than it does in retaining a current income stream of $2.5 million a month. All you have is faith that Chris Roberts, a man who stood up on stage and lied to backers, can deliver a game that is already years behind schedule, and running massively overbudget.

    You can't even state that Chris Roberts has a history of success because his last few projects have been disasters, at least while he was in charge.

    All you can do is point to Chris Roberts marketing spiel which say the game will be great and say that THIS TIME Chris Robert will be right, because he asks us to have faith in him.

    And I will say - the game that is promised sounds great. The odds that that is the game that will be delivered? Small, and shrinking fast. CIG had the talent, CIG had the money, CIG had the understanding of its backers. But CIG also had the anchor that is Chris Roberts' ego. There is nothing that Chris Roberts has promised that is impossible to achieve. Nothing...which is partially why it is so perplexing why he still has no game. Why they are nowhere near finishing. If their planet generator is so good, then why is it not being used? Why are they continuing to insist of continuing development without having critical technologies such as the netcode or server backend in place? Why are they following a production development model that guarantees their costs, time needs and required manpower will increase, while simultaneously ensuring the game will be more prone to bugs and performance issues?

    You complain that ED is empty? What makes you think that SC will be any different? The flight model just about everyone who isn't a paid shill for CIG agrees is terrible? That's it. That's what the game will have. That's the flight model CIG want.
    Eight minutes of Quantum Drive going from moon to moon? Suddenly the 40 minutes to Hutton doesn't seem so bad considering the distances involved. A lot of ED travel won't take you 8 minutes.
    Oh...but you'll have stuff to do while QDing. We'll be able to have random encounters FF7 style. We'll have to eat and drink and sleep. We'll be able to break one long trip into three and so ensure the travel time to our primary target is even longer. And all of this takes us away from the cockpit so if we do get intercepted by pirates, we stand a good chance of being destroyed before we get back to the pilots seat. Never mind that just about all of this is what you also do in ED...except ED also has you investigating signal sources and allows you to pilot the ship. And then you have to wait for two hours for a replacement ship.
    And gameplay? Have you read some of CRs plans for the game? Some of his ideas for gameplay? Have you ever wondered why other games which made use of some of these ideas stopped doing so? Because they don't work.

    The next time you want to start making comparisons with other games, you really need to think about not only what SC does have and where it is lacking, but also in what CR plans to add, and how bad some of his ideas are.
    Last edited by KyrtF; 2017-11-14 at 11:48 PM.

  16. #4976
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyrtF View Post

    Right now - CIG is selling a dream. They are manipulating peoples hopes. But companies like EA? People expect results. Other companies would not get away with half the stuff that you are letting Chris Roberts get away with. People would demand accountability and they would demand change.

    And to answer your question - the demand isn't there for a game like Star Citizen. What whales will give to CIG, they would never give to EA.
    Just gonna focus on this one section.

    People expect results out of EA, but they have long since abandoned expecting quality. People wouldn't give EA large sums of money because EA have proven to care more about making a buck than producing a quality product. When you do that sort of thing, and you constantly burn your customers time and time again because you just don't give a fuck about making a really good game, people will put their money elsewhere. Sure, RSI is selling a dream, but it's better than the same mediocre status quo that EA has been doing for the better part of 20 years. Tell me, what game has EA themselves developed and published in the last decade that was ground breaking and truly innovative in every aspect of a game's genre?

  17. #4977
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    People expect results out of EA, but they have long since abandoned expecting quality. People wouldn't give EA large sums of money because EA have proven to care more about making a buck than producing a quality product. When you do that sort of thing, and you constantly burn your customers time and time again because you just don't give a fuck about making a really good game, people will put their money elsewhere. Sure, RSI is selling a dream, but it's better than the same mediocre status quo that EA has been doing for the better part of 20 years. Tell me, what game has EA themselves developed and published in the last decade that was ground breaking and truly innovative in every aspect of a game's genre?
    The irony...

    "proven to care more about making a buck than producing a quality product"
    "you constantly burn your customers time and time again "

    These statements can easily be applied to Star Citizen. And yet, there is a bunch of people who still shovel money in their direction.

    "what game has EA themselves developed and published in the last decade that was ground breaking and truly innovative in every aspect of a game's genre?"
    And as for this? There is nothing new or groundbreaking or innovative about Star Citizen. Chris Robert repeatedly telling us this doesn't make it so. EA has created and "developed and published in the last decade that was ground breaking and truly innovative in every aspect of a game's genre" just as many games as CIG. None. And they are likely to publish just as many in the next decade as CIG...none.

  18. #4978
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyrtF View Post
    The irony...

    "proven to care more about making a buck than producing a quality product"
    "you constantly burn your customers time and time again "

    These statements can easily be applied to Star Citizen. And yet, there is a bunch of people who still shovel money in their direction.

    "what game has EA themselves developed and published in the last decade that was ground breaking and truly innovative in every aspect of a game's genre?"
    And as for this? There is nothing new or groundbreaking or innovative about Star Citizen. Chris Robert repeatedly telling us this doesn't make it so. EA has created and "developed and published in the last decade that was ground breaking and truly innovative in every aspect of a game's genre" just as many games as CIG. None. And they are likely to publish just as many in the next decade as CIG...none.
    No, because they'd have to have delivered at least one product in order for them to have burned anyone. They have not failed at delivering anything, there is no final product because the final product isn't even fucking close to being done. That doesn't stop people from dropping money, and clearly those who do have more expandable income than you or anyone else, and that's their decision, the same as it is every other people who chooses to support the project through a smaller financial investment.

    How many games has EA ever made in their history that actually pushed gaming performance? SC does, but by the time it's done it probably won't be a whole lot further ahead than it aims to be. Still, better than locked 30 FPS half baked console shooters with aim assist and sports rehashes which is all EA can do aside from publish abortions like Star Wars Battlefront that insult the original games.

  19. #4979
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    No, because they'd have to have delivered at least one product in order for them to have burned anyone. They have not failed at delivering anything, there is no final product because the final product isn't even fucking close to being done.
    Which is the point. It isn't even close. Their engine isn't even finished, isn't feature complete and lacks core critical functionality such as the netcode. This, almost seven years after development began. Nearly seven years of development and they have produced nothing except a few tech demos - there is no content, there is no mechanics, there is no game loop. They have not innovated new technologies, they have not created new standards and there are people saying we should give them a chance because of "reasons"

    Tell me...if EA had said they had wasted tens of millions of dollars because they'd forgotten to tell their developers about core changes that rendered their work incompatible, would you shrug and say "np...have some more cash". No - you'd be excoriating them for their incompetence. If EA told you they were burning millions and slowing down development by ignoring basic development practises, would you be "I understand. Have some more cash". No - you'd be tearing them a new one.

    But with CIG? You can't give them cash fast enough.

    You might think being an "indie" excuses their incompetence and mismanagement. I do not. I hold them to the same standards as any other company that I hope to do business with. I would love to be able to feel confident enough in CIG to back the game.

    And I don't. I have no confidence in CIGs ability to deliver the game...not only because development is so slow, but because they do not appear to be developing a game with a fixed goal in mind. I still have no idea about many of the gameplay aspects they want to add....and half of what Chris Roberts has come up with is shocking in its lack of suitability. I don't know about you...but I want a game, not a life simulator.
    That doesn't stop people from dropping money, and clearly those who do have more expandable income than you or anyone else, and that's their decision, the same as it is every other people who chooses to support the project through a smaller financial investment.
    Yep - their decision. I ain't going to try to make people change their minds. If they want a refund...they know the process. If they don't...then we can hope CIG dlivbers the game they want.

    I doubt CIG will do that, primarily because what CIG have stated is often so vague people end up filling in the blanks and imaging THEIR perfect game instead of what will actually be released.

    How many games has EA ever made in their history that actually pushed gaming performance?
    None. Because if it pushes gaming performance to that degree, you can't sell it. Whether or not SC pushes gaming performance is questionable...it's not doing anything new or innovative and if all you mean is looking so good that graphics cards can't keep up, well...many games have done that. Not all of them good. Indeed, it osually bad if they do.

  20. #4980
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    aaaaahhh, the attention to detail in this game. simply amazing.

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