1. #5161
    Quote Originally Posted by CogsNCocks View Post
    I have done all of that stuff, and please don't presume to tell me what "type" of player I am. I'm certainly not one of the grind and rush players, it's ED inherent bad design that encourages you to play that way. Just look at the community goals for example, it's just flying between two or three stations trading stuff, or collecting bounties at the same spots for hours and days on end. All the different playstyles of Elite Dangerous are mind-numbingly boring after a while.
    Again this is subjective. Is it possible to not pass off opinion as fact?
    It's not Elite's inherent bad design that makes you play that way at all, that is a totally a player choice. My largest ship after 1000 hours of game time is a Federal Gunship, people think the bigger the ship the better, the more expensive the ship the better, they think progression treadmill, they think breadcrumbs and achievements because that's what they've become used to.
    Nor is every playstyle to be mind-numbingly boring. That's just your personal opinion because the game does not click for you and that's fine, we all have different tastes, but it is not factual.

    The game does lack on many aspects (a lot of which are being revisited next year) but it also does many things exceptionally well.

    Look at it another way, Elite and SC concluded their kickstarters at a very similar time. I've already got 1000 hours from Elite but there is no way I could ever imagine myself playing SC for 1000 hours with the what the game offers now.

  2. #5162
    Quote Originally Posted by 1001 View Post
    Again this is subjective. Is it possible to not pass off opinion as fact?
    It's not Elite's inherent bad design that makes you play that way at all, that is a totally a player choice. My largest ship after 1000 hours of game time is a Federal Gunship, people think the bigger the ship the better, the more expensive the ship the better, they think progression treadmill, they think breadcrumbs and achievements because that's what they've become used to.
    Nor is every playstyle to be mind-numbingly boring. That's just your personal opinion because the game does not click for you and that's fine, we all have different tastes, but it is not factual.

    The game does lack on many aspects (a lot of which are being revisited next year) but it also does many things exceptionally well.

    Look at it another way, Elite and SC concluded their kickstarters at a very similar time. I've already got 1000 hours from Elite but there is no way I could ever imagine myself playing SC for 1000 hours with the what the game offers now.
    But some of us just want to fly the big ships... as they are magnificent in VR. Only to get there and realise you can't even fly the damn thing because of griefers or at least bring it into combat without hours upon hours of grinding for insurance. You see I want to play the game a certain way, but its bad design punishes me for trying to have fun in the way that I would like to have fun. And yes I'm aware that my experiences are subjective... and the forum exists so that I can share them. Anway I'll check back in with ED once the big updates come next year, especially the space guild base stuff, but I'm not holding my breath for that considering the developers can't even get multi-crew to function correctly or attach any compelling gameplay to it.
    Last edited by CogsNCocks; 2017-11-26 at 10:52 AM.

  3. #5163
    Quote Originally Posted by CogsNCocks View Post
    But some of us just want to fly the big ships... as they are magnificent in VR. Only to get there and realise you can't even fly the damn thing because of griefers or at least bring it into combat without hours upon hours of grinding for insurance.
    But how is that a bad thing? How is that something that is not going to happen in Star Citizen?
    "Griefers" can be avoided so eaily in Elite, I play solely in open mode and have never been blown up, it all depends on where you go and the galaxy is large enough for everybody.
    If you want the biggest ships with all the best kit then the rebuy is going to be expensive, there's no getting around that and nor should there be because the larger ships put out a serious amount of damage with much less risk of being blown up.

    Quote Originally Posted by CogsNCocks View Post
    You see I want to play the game a certain way, but its fundementally bad design punishes you for trying to have fun in the way that I would like to have fun.
    LOL. What this really sounds like is you want all the best toys but you don't want to put the time in to pay for them. No wonder you like Star Citizen then

  4. #5164
    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    SC already has things in it that none of the games you mentioned have already. But go ahead and keep doin' you.
    If you want to speak about the present tense....sure.
    Its got a basic FPS system in a dedicated separate game module that as yet isn't truly integrated into the main game...ED has a working and likeable flight model, mining, trading, and more.

    ED **PLANS** to have FPS...Star Citizen **PLANS** to have everything else ED has.

    What is the point you are trying to make? Star Citizen...right now and despite several people arguing to the contrary...Star Citizen does NOT have it all, and won't for quite some time. Basic gameloops are still missing, basic game mechanics haven't been implemented and frank, IMO, some of the game mechanics that have been discussed appear to be terrible and ill thought out - there is a slight possibility CIG can make them work, but no one else has so I'm not holding my breath.

    All Star Citizen has right now is a basic FPS game with some flight capability. If that is all you wanted, Infinite Warfare is a better option.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CogsNCocks View Post
    Pretty routine? Are you for real?

    You keep saying words, but know not what you say.
    Routine...as in normal. Expected. In common use.

    What do you think it means? It doesn't matter how much hype CIG gives features such as RaaT or Serialised Variables. These are pretty normal and routine.

    You seem to not understand the difference between original concepts, and original implementation of a particular iteration of that concept.
    Just about EVERY game has an original implementation of a concept. Star Citizen is no exception. Nailing an "original implementation of a particular iteration of that concept" is not, however, innovation. It isn't creating new tech. It isn't being at the cutting edge of the forefront of game development. At best, it is refining what has already been done.

    Star Citizen nails it across multiple domains in the second category, and packages it all together at level of fidelity never seen before in a real-time game. Next-generation stuff.
    With graphics that were good four years ago and swiftly becoming normal or aged today. That the problem with developing assets early on. They age. They need to be redone. Reworked. Adding more time and money to the project. There is nothing in Star Citizen that is new...it's all been done before.

    I have done all of that stuff, and please don't presume to tell me what "type" of player I am. I'm certainly not one of the grind and rush players, it's ED inherent bad design that encourages you to play that way.
    But that "bad design" is making its way into Star Citizen. In fact, a lot of what CIG promises or talks about wrt game mechanics and design is WORSE than the games you are trying to defend. And you don't seem worried about it. It's a bit like travel times. Ten minute travel times in ED is bad and boring and makes the game empty - but ten minute travel times in SC are good because you fly point to point and have no interaction with the rets of the universe other than Final Fantasy style random encounters.


    Just look at the community goals for example, it's just flying between two or three stations trading stuff, or collecting bounties at the same spots for hours and days on end. All the different playstyles of Elite Dangerous are mind-numbingly boring after a while.
    If you get bored with ED doing all of this, what makes you think Star Citizen will be any different? Star Citizen with its multi crew design makes things worse by splitting mechanics and gameplay one person can do and spread it out between several players. You keep saying you find the playstyle of ED boring...but similar gameplay in SC makes you excited?

    By necessity - SC is going to be just as grindy as ED. If you find ED grindy, you'll find SC grindy...simply because there are only so many types of activity you can do.
    Last edited by KyrtF; 2017-11-26 at 11:13 AM.

  5. #5165
    Quote Originally Posted by 1001 View Post
    But how is that a bad thing? How is that something that is not going to happen in Star Citizen?
    "Griefers" can be avoided so eaily in Elite, I play solely in open mode and have never been blown up, it all depends on where you go and the galaxy is large enough for everybody.
    If you want the biggest ships with all the best kit then the rebuy is going to be expensive, there's no getting around that and nor should there be because the larger ships put out a serious amount of damage with much less risk of being blown up.
    But hundreds and thousands of hours????

    LOL. What this really sounds like is you want all the best toys but you don't want to put the time in to pay for them. No wonder you like Star Citizen then
    Nonsense, I just think ED goes way over the top with the grind and punishment system, because the devs do it purposely knowing there's fuck all else to do. But having said that if you're the kind of player who like those weird forklift, bus driving and crane simulator games, then Elite Dangerous is probably a a dream in comparison.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by KyrtF View Post
    If you want to speak about the present tense....sure.
    Its got a basic FPS system in a dedicated separate game module that as yet isn't truly integrated into the main game...ED has a working and likeable flight model, mining, trading, and more.

    ED **PLANS** to have FPS...Star Citizen **PLANS** to have everything else ED has.

    What is the point you are trying to make? Star Citizen...right now and despite several people arguing to the contrary...Star Citizen does NOT have it all, and won't for quite some time. Basic gameloops are still missing, basic game mechanics haven't been implemented and frank, IMO, some of the game mechanics that have been discussed appear to be terrible and ill thought out - there is a slight possibility CIG can make them work, but no one else has so I'm not holding my breath.

    All Star Citizen has right now is a basic FPS game with some flight capability. If that is all you wanted, Infinite Warfare is a better option.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Routine...as in normal. Expected. In common use.

    What do you think it means? It doesn't matter how much hype CIG gives features such as RaaT or Serialised Variables. These are pretty normal and routine.



    Just about EVERY game has an original implementation of a concept. Star Citizen is no exception. Nailing an "original implementation of a particular iteration of that concept" is not, however, innovation. It isn't creating new tech. It isn't being at the cutting edge of the forefront of game development. At best, it is refining what has already been done.



    With graphics that were good four years ago and swiftly becoming normal or aged today. That the problem with developing assets early on. They age. They need to be redone. Reworked. Adding more time and money to the project. There is nothing in Star Citizen that is new...it's all been done before.



    But that "bad design" is making its way into Star Citizen. In fact, a lot of what CIG promises or talks about wrt game mechanics and design is WORSE than the games you are trying to defend. And you don't seem worried about it. It's a bit like travel times. Ten minute travel times in ED is bad and boring and makes the game empty - but ten minute travel times in SC are good because you fly point to point and have no interaction with the rets of the universe other than Final Fantasy style random encounters.




    If you get bored with ED doing all of this, what makes you think Star Citizen will be any different? Star Citizen with its multi crew design makes things worse by splitting mechanics and gameplay one person can do and spread it out between several players. You keep saying you find the playstyle of ED boring...but similar gameplay in SC makes you excited?

    By necessity - SC is going to be just as grindy as ED. If you find ED grindy, you'll find SC grindy...simply because there are only so many types of activity you can do.
    You're an insufferable creature. Do you understand that? The world isn't words.
    Last edited by CogsNCocks; 2017-11-26 at 11:28 AM.

  6. #5166
    Quote Originally Posted by CogsNCocks View Post
    But hundreds and thousands of hours????
    For what?

    Quote Originally Posted by CogsNCocks View Post
    Nonsense, I just think ED goes way over the top with the grind and punishment system, because the devs do it purposely knowing there's fuck all else to do.
    We're obviously polar opposites on this. An Anaconda is simple to get, it does take some grind if you focus on getting it asap but how is that different to any other game, like grinding to top level, or grinding rep for crafting recipes etc. If you want to keep your sanity and just play the game there are plenty of ways to do so without burning yourself out. If you can earn lots of money in the big 3 ships it only stands to reason that they cost more to maintain, no one is being punished for owning them.

    Does anyone think Star Citizen is not going to have loads of grind? You can bet it will be super grindy because people have paid idiotic amounts of money for pixels and if UEC or ships are too easy to earn they will feel like they've been fleeced.

    Quote Originally Posted by CogsNCocks View Post
    But having said that if you're the kind of player who like those weird forklift, bus driving and crane simulator games, then Elite Dangerous is probably a a dream in comparison.
    I've never understood those forklift/bus/crane/train/lorry sims myself, not my cup of tea at all. Hell, the only fun with the forklift in Shenmue was the racing.

  7. #5167
    Quote Originally Posted by 1001 View Post
    For what?



    We're obviously polar opposites on this. An Anaconda is simple to get, it does take some grind if you focus on getting it asap but how is that different to any other game, like grinding to top level, or grinding rep for crafting recipes etc. If you want to keep your sanity and just play the game there are plenty of ways to do so without burning yourself out. If you can earn lots of money in the big 3 ships it only stands to reason that they cost more to maintain, no one is being punished for owning them.

    Does anyone think Star Citizen is not going to have loads of grind? You can bet it will be super grindy because people have paid idiotic amounts of money for pixels and if UEC or ships are too easy to earn they will feel like they've been fleeced.



    I've never understood those forklift/bus/crane/train/lorry sims myself, not my cup of tea at all. Hell, the only fun with the forklift in Shenmue was the racing.
    Of course it matters to any other game about the "grind". The grind IS the gameplay, a well designed game has a fun grind. A badly designed game has a boring/non-fun grind. ED is in the bad grind category. Even a lot of the ED youtube content creators and community people are constantly critizing the game for this and begging Frontier to do something about it, but it falls on deaf ears. It's a game that is pretty much universally praised for the huge galaxy and immersive VR experience, but also universally panned for its shoddy gameplay systems and half-arsed features. It's a game that has pretty much dropped the ball on everything after it's initial release and the planetary landings. It's like much of the talanted dev team who put the initial game together has moved onto other projects leaving nothing but a skeleton crew working on miniscule updates and adding items to the cosmetic store. The game could have been so much more, but they blew it big time. A shame really, a damn shame.
    Last edited by CogsNCocks; 2017-11-26 at 01:28 PM.

  8. #5168

  9. #5169
    Quote Originally Posted by KyrtF View Post
    Assuming the plans for all there games go through as planned. What feature or gameplay will SC have that the rest do not? The games will each have a different gameplay focus, each will likely do something better than the others, each will have its own graphical style...what will SC bring?
    Seamlessness and a higher level of fidelity, both of which offer much greater immersion. Granted, there will be people that don't really care about that, but for those that do, SC will the game they go with. The seamless experience that SC currently has in 2.6 is far and above what I have seen in any other game. 3.0 increases that with planetary landing. Sure, other games have planetary landing, but being able to get up form your seat, walk through your ship, get on a Nox or Dragonfly that is parked inside your ship, and drive (hover?) out onto the planet is an experience no other game offers that I am aware of.

    Quote Originally Posted by KyrtF View Post
    Also an irrelevance. It has no impact on gameplay.
    Incorrect. It has a huge impact on PvP gameplay. Now other players can see *exactly* what you are doing, not a mere approximation.

  10. #5170
    I'm very tempted to trade a ship in i currently own for the hammerhead. Combat ships are what me and my friends currently don't have, well besides my mates hurricane.
    But i'm gonna hold out and wait till the final day to make my commitment since they are not limited hulls. Sorry not seen it Iseeyou prob have to ask in daily questions thread on the reddit page and someone will link it to you.

  11. #5171
    I finally found the cockpit room in the Drake Catepillar and took that beast for a spin. Incredible, it's length must comparable to about two football pitches lined up. The interior of this thing was like navigating an entire level in a corridor FPS. And to think that this ship is small compared to the capital ships such as the Idris.

  12. #5172
    Now 3.0 is here we have stuff to talk about.

  13. #5173
    Pandaren Monk masterhorus8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyrtF View Post
    ED **PLANS** to have FPS...Star Citizen **PLANS** to have everything else ED has.
    SC has space legs.

    SC has seamless transitions.

    SC has localized physics grids.

    Each game you mentioned is missing at least one of those. That's my point that you've been failing to understand the entire time that you've been posting here.

    And almost all of the games you said never **PLAN** to have at least one of them.
    Last edited by masterhorus8; 2017-11-26 at 05:37 PM.
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  14. #5174
    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    SC has space legs.

    SC has seamless transitions.

    SC has localized physics grids.

    Each game you mentioned is missing at least one of those. That's my point that you've been failing to understand the entire time that you've been posting here.
    And making it work over the internet is the real wizardry. Although I'm sure our resident SC critic will be back just shouting about random networking protocol buzzwords as if that's an argument lmao. Star citizen is a game where literally EVERYTHING is in motion all the time.
    Last edited by CogsNCocks; 2017-11-26 at 06:51 PM.

  15. #5175
    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    SC has space legs.

    SC has seamless transitions.

    SC has localized physics grids.

    Each game you mentioned is missing at least one of those. That's my point that you've been failing to understand the entire time that you've been posting here.

    And almost all of the games you said never **PLAN** to have at least one of them.
    TBH i think ED will drop space legs. To implement it properly they need 5-6 years as SC needed, design every ship and station interior to much the exterior and be functional, make every animation, every model, etc, its a gigantic work. So they either spend lots of money and time on it and do it properly, or do it half assed, but then it will be compared to SC and will be dragged down.
    Seeing they are already focusing on other projects it hink they will drop it at the end.

    Back on topic, heres a 36 min 3.0 gameplay which contains the night sandstorm i shared pics of earlier.
    Not a really exciting video, but shows how it runs now:


  16. #5176
    Pandaren Monk masterhorus8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miyani View Post
    I'm very tempted to trade a ship in i currently own for the hammerhead. Combat ships are what me and my friends currently don't have, well besides my mates hurricane.
    But i'm gonna hold out and wait till the final day to make my commitment since they are not limited hulls. Sorry not seen it Iseeyou prob have to ask in daily questions thread on the reddit page and someone will link it to you.
    Also remember that those big-ass ships will be very expensive to run day 1, so it'd likely be a while to use it anyways.
    9

  17. #5177
    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    Also remember that those big-ass ships will be very expensive to run day 1, so it'd likely be a while to use it anyways.
    Indeed that's why i have smaller ships too, i will prob sell my pledge aurora too when the game is live and the ship isn't tied to the game package, as long as they separate them eventually. But for myself jumping in my friends ships saves me having to spend credits myself.

  18. #5178
    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    Also remember that those big-ass ships will be very expensive to run day 1, so it'd likely be a while to use it anyways.
    A lot of people will try to wave their credit card and buy ingame credits for real life cash to fuel their ships. CIG mentioned a limit based on time but never really specified details. Until they do, that question is up in the air. My plan was to take my Orion (RIP) on day one and start to gain that IG money back immediately.

  19. #5179
    Pandaren Monk masterhorus8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    This “in-game” shop they got going on it’s actually the only thing that actually bothers me in this damn project, they got a Kickstarter over 400% successfully funded to a game that will cost around 50$ and even before releasing it the damned thing they already have a shop set selling shit that weights pretty heavily on gameplay.
    The ships or the Voyager Direct shit?
    9

  20. #5180
    Quote Originally Posted by Majestic12 View Post
    A lot of people will try to wave their credit card and buy ingame credits for real life cash to fuel their ships. CIG mentioned a limit based on time but never really specified details. Until they do, that question is up in the air. My plan was to take my Orion (RIP) on day one and start to gain that IG money back immediately.
    The limits have been around for a long time, whether they are still pertinent is another thing. Given that they cater so strongly for the case of money vs time I wouldn't be surprised if they opened up the caps due to "popular demand".

    $25 a day, you can hold $150 worth of shop bought credit at a time, if you spend $25 credit every time you reach the cap you can spend a total of $750 a month.

    Are there limits to the amount of UEC I can obtain or stockpile?

    In order to regulate the economy, the Central Core Bank has imposed restrictions on acquiring and stockpiling UEC. Each account can obtain a maximum of 25,000 UEC per 24 hour period, and can hold a maximum of 150,000 UEC on account in your ledger at any time. Buying items with UEC does reduce your ledger balance, and does not count towards the maximum UEC cap. These restrictions may be modified at the order of the CCB in the future when additional gameplay options become available.
    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/f...-earth-credits

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