[Megathread] Star Citizen

[CogsNCocks]

I don’t. That’s just how you chose to interpret it. It’s not my fucking problem.

Also, stop attempting to defend the project against claims that I didn’t even make, your just wasting time.

…and, yes, “twisted donations” as in, a donation system that presents itself as an online store, where people can pay for inexistent products yet aren’t really owed shit. I’m sorry if the term doesn’t please you, I’ll try to come up with something fancier the next time, no need to get so fixated on it.

Luckily we already have word for your bizarre usage of "twisted donation" and your given definition in the English language. It's called a "pledge", not quite as colourful as your language but whatever.

[Gorsameth]

Yeah...because he was hired to be a part of the game just like Mark Hamill, social promotion is usually a pretty standard part of contracts like this so it's not as if he's just randomly interested.

Though I do wonder why CIG continue to hire big name actors who are likely far, far more expensive than the amazingly talented and less expensive voice actors who rely on this kind of work as they don't get big screen gigs.

Because big names generate hype which sells picture of possible future space ships.

[Kyanion]

That's pretty easy to say, not being a developer. Deadlines get missed constantly, anywhere. They've provided more transparency than almost any design project I've ever seen before.

Is it really transparency if they miss them all? Sounds like incompetence to me. They should set some realistic goals. But that isn't what they are about.

[CogsNCocks]

Yeah...because he was hired to be a part of the game just like Mark Hamill, social promotion is usually a pretty standard part of contracts like this so it's not as if he's just randomly interested.

I agree it's a social promotion, in fact I expect all the actors to come out in full support of the games release to promote the game at some point. I was merely pointing out that some in this thread were trying to paint the game as being ignored by the larger gaming community which isn't the case at all. In fact if you google search Squadron 42 you can see that all the big gaming outlets are giving the trailer positive coverage and there's a few non-gaming outlets especially cinema publications covering the game as well. I've also looked out around at a number of large gaming forums and most if not all are talking about the trailer.

Though I do wonder why CIG continue to hire big name actors who are likely far, far more expensive than the amazingly talented and less expensive voice actors who rely on this kind of work as they don't get big screen gigs.

That's an interesting question. I think Chris Roberts is just carrying on the tradition of the later Wing Commander games and flexing his Hollywood connections. Also, it's not just voice actors but full performance capture as well. I can't wait to see Andy Serkis's performance as a Vanduul. I don't think we've ever seen another game with not only such a star studded cast but also a game that is going to extreme lengths to carry the actor's physical likeness into the game. It'll be interesting to see how this effects the overall game experience and commercial performance. I think that it will be a very different experience fighting the Vandull along side Mark Hamil and Co vs doing the same with a voice actor with fictional game model. I was reading Mark Hamil's Twitter and then was plenty of Hamil fans who were suddenly really interested in SQ42 who had never even heard of it before.

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It is sheer incompetence. Plain and simple. Name one big developer that wouldn't get this much criticism for missing deadlines. Hint... they wouldn't.

If this was EA, Blizzard, Ubisoft, Activision or Square there would be a shitshow. CiG don't get a free pass just because "muh revolutionary/big scope game".

Just wow lol. When do we ever get see internal deadlines of any of those companies you mention? I can tell you, it's never! I can also tell you that those companies miss internal deadlines all the time. It's just the nature of the beast. Stop confusing release dates that are announced once the game is undergoing polishing passes compared to the actual nitty gritty development deadlines that are never revealed to the public.

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Is it really transparency if they miss them all? Sounds like incompetence to me. They should set some realistic goals. But that isn't what they are about.

As I explained a few pages back, they are using Agile development methodologies which involves purposely setting overly ambitious goals. It's accepted as part of the process that you're not going to reach every goal you planned for but the idea is that you should be more productive than setting more easily predictable goals and timelines. This methodology is quite popular in the software development industry.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

I mean the only really good game I can think of that had Hamills voice behind it was the Batman Arkham series.

Wasn't he in Darksiders? That was pretty good.

[chazus]

Is it really transparency if they miss them all? Sounds like incompetence to me. They should set some realistic goals. But that isn't what they are about.

There's no such thing as 'realistic goals'. You're asking for something that doesn't happen.

It is sheer incompetence. Plain and simple. Name one big developer that wouldn't get this much criticism for missing deadlines. Hint... they wouldn't.

If this was EA, Blizzard, Ubisoft, Activision or Square there would be a shitshow.

The only difference between CiG and all those... Is they don't show you what's going on. All of those developers in the background ARE a shitshow. Game development in general is a shitshow. CiG is just the only company so far that's actually made that process transparent.

[Kyanion]

Just wow lol. When do we ever get see internal deadlines of any of those companies you mention? I can tell you, it's never! I can also tell you that those companies miss internal deadlines all the time.

Yeah not shit because those companies aren't stupid enough to post deadlines that they know they are likely to miss over and over. Way to blaze the trail Star Citizen!

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As I explained a few pages back, they are using Agile development methodologies which involves purposely setting overly ambitious goals. It's accepted as part of the process that you're not going to reach every goal you planned for but the idea is that you should be more productive than setting more easily predictable goals and timelines. This methodology is quite popular in the software development industry.

And someone explained to you how Jira works and just buzzword setting 'agile' dev goals means fucking nothing. All it shows is that they set deadlines and miss them and miss them BADLY.

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There's no such thing as 'realistic goals'. You're asking for something that doesn't happen.

Then maybe they should blaze the trail and not set a goal that is batshit insane. All they do is post up these huge roadmaps and then whiff everything. All it shows is that "We can't meet any deadline we set. Please don't give us money." That is what I see. They have a bad reputation for MANY reasons, this is one of the main ones.

[chazus]

Then maybe they should blaze the trail and not set a goal that is batshit insane. All they do is post up these huge roadmaps and then whiff everything. All it shows is that "We can't meet any deadline we set. Please don't give us money." That is what I see. They have a bad reputation for MANY reasons, this is one of the main ones.

It's a difficult place they've put themselves in. I think part of it is because they wanted to do 'things' different, for once. On one hand, it's fantastic, because you know exactly where they're at, what they're doing, what is done and what isn't......... But the problem is, their audience they give that to are not the people you probably want to do that.

There's a reason other companies don't do that. Specifically because people will nitpick and complain. Ignorance is bliss. I applaud them for the transparency, but part of the problem is that nobody else does this... So people assume they're doing awful at their job, when they're doing no worse than anyone else.

it's the whole "Seeing where your burger comes from" dilemma.

[CogsNCocks]

Yeah not shit because those companies aren't stupid enough to post deadlines that they know they are likely to miss over and over. Way to blaze the trail Star Citizen!

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The community asked them to show their plans and progress in a more detailed way and CIG obliged! Fancy that eh? A game company actually listening and implementing their customers requests. Blizzard could learn a thing or two about that from what I hear...

And someone explained to you how Jira works and just buzzword setting 'agile' dev goals means fucking nothing. All it shows is that they set deadlines and miss them and miss them BADLY.

I've been developing software for almost twenty years and managed to teach myself how Jira works thankyou very much. I just told you what a deadline is in software development but you as a non-developer keep insisting it's something else. We don't even call them deadlines, they are called milestones due to their rather malleable nature compared to the rigid inflexibility of a deadline. This whole deadline debacle is a bit of red herring to begin with actually.

[Kyanion]

It's a difficult place they've put themselves in. I think part of it is because they wanted to do 'things' different, for once. On one hand, it's fantastic, because you know exactly where they're at, what they're doing, what is done and what isn't......... But the problem is, their audience they give that to are not the people you probably want to do that.

No, the problem is you DON'T know exactly where they're at. Why is that? They never make any deadline, ever. So what happens? Their audience gets pissed the fuck off. I think they also get pissed the fuck off at the feature creep, but hey, new pretty ship you may get one day.

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The community asked them to show their plans and progress in a more detailed way and CIG obliged! Fancy that eh? A game company actually listening and implementing their customers requests. Blizzard could learn a thing or two about that from what I hear...

Blizzard actually has a game from what I hear...more than one actually. Fancy that eh?

[chazus]

No, the problem is you DON'T know exactly where they're at. Why is that? They never make any deadline, ever. So what happens? Their audience gets pissed the fuck off. I think they also get pissed the fuck off at the feature creep, but hey, new pretty ship you may get one day.

I don't disagree with feature creep. They have added way too much stuff that probably should have been an expansion or DLC. That said, most studios don't hit any deadlines. People outside the studio just don't know it. And with as much stuff as there is, thats a LOT of deadlines to miss.

People just get all bent out of shape about it, knowing exactly what they were getting into (or, maybe not, at the time)

[Kyanion]

I don't disagree with feature creep. They have added way too much stuff that probably should have been an expansion or DLC. That said, most studios don't hit any deadlines. People outside the studio just don't know it. And with as much stuff as there is, thats a LOT of deadlines to miss.

People just get all bent out of shape about it, knowing exactly what they were getting into (or, maybe not, at the time)

I get that many studios don't hit their deadlines and hell some never hit them and the game gets canned. The problem is Star Citizen has taken in a fuckton of money and then puts out these roadmaps and then just looks really bad as they miss deadline after deadline. You'd think that public perception would bury these idiots who have no clue but no, people keep throwing money as these virtual ships they may never get. It really is fascinating to watch in that regard.

If I had money on this project I'd be pretty pissed off, but I wouldn't have ever backed something like this in the first place, too ambitious for a company that really has done nothing but talk big and feature creep themselves to the grandest of scales.

[Odeezee]

really dope update on Squadron 42, i HIGHLY recommend clicking each image for an HD version! (provided by TheBlueFan on Reddit)

Squadron 42 Update Email

Taken from the link above:

[Val the Moofia Boss]

They gave a brief summary of the technical progress S42 has made, but they made no mention on the actual story content. Last time I checked, Chris Roberts said that the story would be about 20 hours long. Given how rich the SC universe has been shaping up to be, I'd be incredibly disappointed if RSI neglected to focus on telling a comprehensive singleplayer story within it. 20 hours is way, way too short; you can't possibly expect to develop more than a brief pass at a couple planets at most, let alone tell compelling character arcs for anyone else besides the main character(s) (probably Mark Hamil's character, if he isn't a disposable mentor character that is). I know they said they weren't going to talk about the big spoilers, but come on man; tell us what the actual singleplayer campaign details outside of "blow up Vanduul with AI squadmates". Who are the characters? Which worlds are we going to explore? How in depth will the civilizations of these worlds be explored? What about the politics of the Imperium? Will the story take time to breathe and give us a decent amount of time to explore in between missions and get a feel for life inside the Imperium and inside the navy? Will we get to form relationships with the crew members of the Idris the squadron is based on, or will they just be nameless workman NPCs in the background? Will the antagonists be characterized beyond just being generic aliens you shoot?

It'll be a massive shame if it's just another tacked on singeplayer campaign like the CoD and Halo games.

[zealo]

They gave a brief summary of the technical progress S42 has made, but they made no mention on the actual story content. Last time I checked, Chris Roberts said that the story would be about 20 hours long. Given how rich the SC universe has been shaping up to be, I'd be incredibly disappointed if RSI neglected to focus on telling a comprehensive singleplayer story within it. 20 hours is way, way too short; you can't possibly expect to develop more than a brief pass at a couple planets at most, let alone tell compelling character arcs for anyone else besides the main character(s) (probably Mark Hamil's character, if he isn't a disposable mentor character that is). I know they said they weren't going to talk about the big spoilers, but come on man; tell us what the actual singleplayer campaign details outside of "blow up Vanduul with AI squadmates". Who are the characters? Which worlds are we going to explore? How in depth will the civilizations of these worlds be explored? What about the politics of the Imperium? Will the story take time to breathe and give us a decent amount of time to explore in between missions and get a feel for life inside the Imperium and inside the navy? Will we get to form relationships with the crew members of the Idris the squadron is based on, or will they just be nameless workman NPCs in the background? Will the antagonists be characterized beyond just being generic aliens you shoot?

It'll be a massive shame if it's just another tacked on singeplayer campaign like the CoD and Halo games.

20 hours is plenty for a mission focused single player campaign. Most CoD campaigns barely get above 5-6.

If they actually put out a somewhat decent single player game at all, that'd be a massive improvement over the current state of things.

[stellvia]

Was that for all of SQ42 then? Because I thought they mentioned something about releasing multiple story arcs.

[Odeezee]

It'll be a massive shame if it's just another tacked on single-player campaign like the CoD and Halo games.

i highly suggest you watch the vertical slice for Squadron 42 from last year with the Chris Roberts (Boss), Sean Tracy (Tech Director) and David Haddock (Narrative Director) they speak to most, if not all, of your concerns and SQ42 is a single-player game so the story cannot be tacked on like it is for CoD seeing as CoD these days is just a small scale multiplayer shooter.



FOIP is turning out to be really great. i saw this live it was HILARIOUS!

https://clips.twitch.tv/HyperObeseClipsmomBibleThump

[Orange Joe]

I see lots of people complaining about "They have X money". You cant just throw money at something and make it work.

That said, given the scope of the project... I'm not surprised. I'm also still excited. I recently got gifted a Mercury Star Runner for my birthday and I can't wait to run it. They've made expectations quite clear, I'm not sure why people are so bent out of shape. They've done an impressive job of setting roadmaps and what to expect.

Careful, anyone who support this game in any way is supposedly crazy and out of their mind.

[Orange Joe]

Maybe if the devs had actually given something decent to show after 7 years and if people didn't display cultist like behaviour towards rabidly defending it like it's gonna be "out of this world/a genre changer" and other asinine crap then we wouldn't call them crazy.

After 7 years and consistent delays people have every right to be critical. There is no excuse for the fact the game has been delayed this often and the "scope" argument falls flat on it's face every time.

And no not everyone is like that in this thread.

You are free to support the game. Just know that what you are supporting has it's fair share of issues and right now that is where a good chunk of discussion will head until CiG get their heads out of their backsides and get some competency.

Thank you for proving my point. Back to not posting in this thread for awhile again.

[DarkAmbient]

So that's what they've been spending people's money on, fees for superstars.