1. #8261
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    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnus View Post
    First of all, I kindly ask you to mind your English; it's become quite difficult to understand what message you're attempting to convey because you stopped caring about writing properly.

    You're blinded by sunk-cost, buddy. Your arguments aren't even weak, they're utterly invalid. You claim that paying an inordinate amount of money to buy one ship in an incomplete game you already paid for, is as valuable as a decade worth of play time.

    Game subscription: You pay a monthly fee to play a game you enjoy.
    Expensive ship: You pay an inordinate amount of money to buy a ship you could've earned by playing the game. Ergo, you paid real money to buy a game, only to pay more real money to avoid playing the game.

    Do we really need to point out how utterly flawed your point of view is?
    It's pay to access content, for sure. Which is such a stupid way to do it. Even if it is expensive to operate and you won't be able to use it, since RSI has made it clear that they aren't dumping credits that people have paid for and earned when the game goes from alpha/beta into full release so by the time that happens, players could have racked up tons of cash to pay for those big ships right out of the gate. I think that's the biggest failure in the sunk cost fallacy, it wouldn't be a problem if the game starts at absolute zero for every player in Star Citizen, but it's clear that is not what RSI is going to do.

  2. #8262
    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    The fact that your cherry pick posts and even completely ignores others are a great indication of it.

    Alas, I’ll repeat it, you are not buying the mount, you are paying people to boost your trough content that you can do once a week, in hopes of getting a silly mount with a 1% drop chance.

    You can spend months and even years paying for those boosts without ever getting shit out of it, also, you can’t really AFK, you still need to follow the group and be present in each boss fight to get the loot, even if you are being a useless fucking potato, you still need to go through the content one way or another.

    Don’t get me wrong, there is a lot that WoW deserves to be criticized for, but this shit is just ridiculous.



    … and we went from “at least you get something useful from the cash you throw at it!”, into “… but throwing cash at it just turns your game experience into a fucking living hell!” just like that… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Sort of like… “Star Citizen isn’t like any other video game!”….. “but but but WoW also…!”

    Just make up your mind mate.

    Also, I’m not saying it makes you a “god”, I’m saying it gives you advantage over players that don’t spend that sort of cash in it, twisting and exaggerating stuff won’t get you any points here, also, if what you are saying is remotely true, than what’s the point of grinding in-game for those space-ship? Why are they being sold with price-tags of thousands of dollars?



    If I go to a dentist with a toothache and leave with extra fucking teeth, I don't need to go become a fucking dentist myself to say that that the fucking dentist was an incompetent little fuck, do I?

    (Fucking hell, that was a pretty shitty example, but I hope you get the gist of it)
    you do realise that the current raid mounts from last boss mythic kills are 100% and can be traded, and if your getting boosted then being dead/afk is not actually doing the content.

    Im giving a scenario on where having that ship can be a disadvantage, if you stay in safe space then chance of pirates should be low but it shouldnt really matter what ship your flying most of the time.

    Ships take resources and time to make, the more complex the ship the more expensive it is, main reason to sell ships at certain prices is so that not everyone will buy one, not to mention it probably costs thousands in real money for a ship to be completed, most of the time someone having a certain ship is going to have no impact on your expereince at all.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  3. #8263
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    and you still prove that you don't have any idea what you are talking about, its easy to talk about incompetence when your not the one developing a game never been done before, 8 years is still a more than reasonable time in development for a game on the scale of Star Citizen, yet again you come to bump up your post count and provide nothing constructive.
    Good lord you sound more and more like those ToA shills every day. Of course you ignore all of the points I made to make a personal attack. The fact is SC has had a ton of money given to them and has taken many years and not delivered a fully playable game, just parts of one. No one gives a flying fuck if this game has 'never been done before'. Those are buzzwords, they mean nothing. They said they would make X game with X money in X time and have failed all over the place. You can keep giving them money, but to think it is comparable to something like WoW which delivers a playable game year after year is fucking insane.

  4. #8264
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    your the one being idiotic, you complain about spending money on a ship but its just the same as spending money on a subscription and expansions for the past 10-14 years
    Saying "I'm still having fun in this game, I guess I'll pay another $15. Oh hey look it's been 10 years now!" is vastly different to "I've spent $1000 now, hopefully I'll like the game when it comes out and play it for 10 years".

  5. #8265
    Game has been playable since 2014 and getting updates ever since, maybe some gamers realy like what they've been playing and the general direction the game is going and have spare money to spare on something they realy like. Maybe knowing your helping the game get made is part of the fun, maybe they really like sci-fi and walking inside and around pretty space ships, maybe they think they are buying power. Who knows... Anyone trying to put himself in a position to judge is only trying with their own struggle of the "why".

    Just because you dont understand it or agree with it doesnt make it wrong.

    Im in for 250$ since I backed with a starter package (about 35$) before ther was anything yo play at all. As they showed more of the game updates I liked what I saw and gave them a bit more$ here and there as an apreciation while getting a ship better suitable to my playstyle to go along.

  6. #8266
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnus View Post
    First of all, I kindly ask you to mind your English; it's become quite difficult to understand what message you're attempting to convey because you stopped caring about writing properly.

    You're blinded by sunk-cost, buddy. Your arguments aren't even weak, they're utterly invalid. You claim that paying an inordinate amount of money to buy one ship in an incomplete game you already paid for, is as valuable as a decade worth of play time.

    Game subscription: You pay a monthly fee to play a game you enjoy.
    Expensive ship: You pay an inordinate amount of money to buy a ship you could've earned by playing the game. Ergo, you paid real money to buy a game, only to pay more real money to avoid playing the game.

    Do we really need to point out how utterly flawed your point of view is?
    To be fair, what you consider an "inordinate" amount of money isn't considered that by all People. So whilst you think spending that much is a "flawed" point of view, To some People with disposable income just outright buying something they know they will enjoy isn't flawed at all.

  7. #8267
    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    https://www.warcraftmounts.com/loot....ngeonbossdrops
    https://www.warcraftmounts.com/patch...ngeonbossdrops

    Yawn* Oh shit, what’s this? “low-chance drops from Boss NPCs in dungeons” in 8.2? Nani!?!

    Yes dude, I do realize that you have guaranteed mount rewards, usually from clearing a list of difficult achievements, I also realize that these are really specific examples that you are aiming for in order to justify a price tag of thousands of dollars for in-game items sold in a cash-shop granting a fair amount of advantage over other players.

    Also, that’s why my exact words were “going through the content.”, if we jump in Star Citizen and you just baby sit me through a bunch of missions while I just follow you around from afar, I’m still going through the content, I may not be clearing it myself, but I’m still playing the damn game to a certain degree…

    By your own sort of logic, any sort of pay 2 win elements in any video game should be okay, games like League of Legends should just sell you ranks, I mean, you can just get someone to boost you anyway, World of Warcraft should just sell you full high tier PvE/PvP sets, people can boost you anyway…. I mean, where do you exactly draw the line on this? Is on the title of the game? It’s just okay if it’s Star Citizen?



    Yeah…large organized groups, with big fat credit cards and the ability to buy in-game credits without much of a limit to it… in an open-PvP based game, yeah dude… you almost convinced me this time around.
    Why are you even talking about crap dungeon mounts when everyone has access to that with little or no skill required, i said raid mounts primarily mythic raid mounts and acheivements which the average player will only have access to 1-2 expansions down the line, main point is you can throw money at WoW also and get stuff that other players may never even get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trifle View Post
    Saying "I'm still having fun in this game, I guess I'll pay another $15. Oh hey look it's been 10 years now!" is vastly different to "I've spent $1000 now, hopefully I'll like the game when it comes out and play it for 10 years".
    you can currently play the game now and earn the available ships in game so you can have as much fun as you want, its not any different as you have still spent thousands on WoW. Say that 1000 is the only purchase you ever make in SC and play it for 10 years which would be considered well worth the money spent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    Good lord you sound more and more like those ToA shills every day. Of course you ignore all of the points I made to make a personal attack. The fact is SC has had a ton of money given to them and has taken many years and not delivered a fully playable game, just parts of one. No one gives a flying fuck if this game has 'never been done before'. Those are buzzwords, they mean nothing. They said they would make X game with X money in X time and have failed all over the place. You can keep giving them money, but to think it is comparable to something like WoW which delivers a playable game year after year is fucking insane.
    All you do is come in here and hate on every aspect of the game and can't see what the game is even developing into, the game was changed at the kickstarter so origional release dates very irrelevant back in 2012, the game was probably going to be similar to freelancer with ship interiors and planets but have grown multiple times over.

    We can clearly see how development is coming along and development time is more than suitable for a game of this scale, traditional sandbox games take 4-5 years with around 1000 staff to create and you expect SC to do it the same with half the staff and still have to develop the technology for the game.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2019-09-06 at 03:25 PM.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  8. #8268
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    All you do is come in here and hate on every aspect of the game and can't see what the game is even developing into, the game was changed at the kickstarter so origional release dates very irrelevant back in 2012, the game was probably going to be similar to freelancer with ship interiors and planets but have grown multiple times over.

    We can clearly see how development is coming along and development time is more than suitable for a game of this scale, traditional sandbox games take 4-5 years with around 1000 staff to create and you expect SC to do it the same with half the staff and still have to develop the technology for the game.
    You can handwave the "original release dates" all you like but the fact is the game has been in development for what, 7 years now? Hell let's be generous and say they didn't "start" until 2014, that's still 5 years. They have blew past 'release dates' and are getting into the territory of some of the longest game developments without a completed release.

    Remember this graphic? https://imgur.com/a/Q6zK29k

    That was posted back in 2015. Fun fact, it is now 2019 and when exactly is this game fully releasing? You don't know do you. 2021? They wish. 2022? When does it come out?

  9. #8269
    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    Why am I even talking about “crap dungeon mounts”? Are you fucking serious? Because that was your fucking comparison, a utterly shitty one, but yours nonetheless, you were the one who brought them up… holy fuck you are utterly lost on your own crap at this point… and if it’s there is little to no skill required to get them, why would people supposedly even be paying for them?

    Your main points boil down to this:

    [WoW]

    - Paying others players (cash) for in-game stuff is against the ToS.
    - Gold buying (even if arguably shitty) is limited by the token system.
    - Paying for boost doesn’t guarantee you the loot you want.
    - You are limited to one single run per week by the lockout system.
    - Being boosted still means you need to go through the content, even if you are not helping, you still need to be present in the run, sort of why it’s called a boost.

    (This actually means you can spent months "afking" in raids you paid for, to get fucking nothing at all out of it)

    Equals to: Opening a tab, typing the credit card numbers, fulfilling a 2,000$ payment, and getting exactly the “loot” you want.

    By this sort of logic, any “pay-2-win” elements in any video game are okay, because you can “get stuff by throwing cash at it” in every other video game out there one way or another, yet for some reason, I doubt that you are attempting to justify it in any other video game out there besides Star Citizen.
    Im talking about something actually relevant of which is Mythic raid boosts/achievements/End raid boss mounts, your the one mentioning dungeons of which noone pays to get boosted in.

    Its not perfect but at least that money you pay for in SC gives you something useful, the ship is a reward for supporting the game in active development, as noone is going to donate a reasonable size of money for something purely cosmetic.

    The game is much more complex than GTA5 and thats a 200 million dollar game that had 1000 staff and 5 years to be made with a fully established studio and relevant tech already existing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    You can handwave the "original release dates" all you like but the fact is the game has been in development for what, 7 years now? Hell let's be generous and say they didn't "start" until 2014, that's still 5 years. They have blew past 'release dates' and are getting into the territory of some of the longest game developments without a completed release.

    Remember this graphic? https://imgur.com/a/Q6zK29k

    That was posted back in 2015. Fun fact, it is now 2019 and when exactly is this game fully releasing? You don't know do you. 2021? They wish. 2022? When does it come out?
    It seems you dont understand anything about development, they have had an income of 20-30 million a year to completely build up a company from nothing along with building suitable tech to make the game work and you expect it to be made in less than 5-6 years.

    They have also had a playable version of the game since 2014 and released everything they said they were going to do, and what relevance does a development graphic hold at all.

    If you hate SC that much why are you wasting your time here anyway apart from bringing up the same irrelevant stuff over and over.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2019-09-06 at 08:33 PM.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  10. #8270
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    To be fair, what you consider an "inordinate" amount of money isn't considered that by all People. So whilst you think spending that much is a "flawed" point of view, To some People with disposable income just outright buying something they know they will enjoy isn't flawed at all.
    99% of those people are not retired

    It is inordinate lol

  11. #8271
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    It's pay to access content, for sure. Which is such a stupid way to do it. Even if it is expensive to operate and you won't be able to use it, since RSI has made it clear that they aren't dumping credits that people have paid for and earned when the game goes from alpha/beta into full release so by the time that happens, players could have racked up tons of cash to pay for those big ships right out of the gate. I think that's the biggest failure in the sunk cost fallacy, it wouldn't be a problem if the game starts at absolute zero for every player in Star Citizen, but it's clear that is not what RSI is going to do.
    Yep. I said it before and I'll say it again: people defending this have their head so far up their ass, they can't see clearly anymore; it's a perfect example of sunk-cost.
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    To be fair, what you consider an "inordinate" amount of money isn't considered that by all People. So whilst you think spending that much is a "flawed" point of view, To some People with disposable income just outright buying something they know they will enjoy isn't flawed at all.
    Obviously no one can debate that worth is subjective. You can however form an opinion based on objective observation, which is what I did.
    Last edited by nocturnus; 2019-09-06 at 10:39 PM.
    success comes in the form of technical solutions to problems, not appeals to our emotional side

  12. #8272
    Bloodsail Admiral Odeezee's Avatar
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    New in-engine ship commercial with a look at the planet Cassel in the Goss system (looking forward to having these emotes in-game eventually):



    the latest Inside Star Citizen:



    Star Citizen Live - All About Development (an update to how they will structure up-coming patches and further implementation of patches/features):

    "Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!"

    For a $5/5000 in-game credit bonus for backing
    Star Citizen (MMO) or Squadron 42 (Single Player/Co-op) use my Referral code: STAR-3QDY-SZBG
    Star Citizen Video Playlist

  13. #8273
    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    … you are aware that Mythic is just a difficulty setting for those dungeons, right? They are still fucking dungeons, it’s impressive how you ignore most of the post just to nitpick about this sort of shit.



    Dude… you can’t tell me “Oh but in WoW you can also buy everything by throwing cash at it!” and proceed to tell me that “at least in star citizen you get something useful from it!”, it’s one or the other, fuck, you are all over the place, “Oh but all others games are also have pay-2-win elements, but star citizen has better pay 2 win elements!!!!” =_=;



    Yes, only big brained people can even grasp the complexity of such divine work, alleluia!
    Why are we even bringing up GTA5 now? How was GTA5 ever somehow “complex”? What the fuck you on about?
    And why are you going on about dungeons again, mythic dungeons are a joke and no challenge so why would anyone need to pay for doing anything regarding them, people pay boosts primarily for stuff they cant access when its current. The only boosts in mythic dungeons people buy is for high keys.

    Everyone knew what they were backing at the kickstarter so what does it matter if someone has a slightly better ship, just like what does it matter if that player in WoW has AOTC and all the mythic raid titles, and if you paid to get those titles you cant say you earnt them properly, endgame is different in both games and until the game is ready to release p2w is still not relevant until we know all the ingame mechanics.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  14. #8274
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    @Myobi Is it just me or in that last quote you linked did kenn9530 pull a "No True Scottsman"?

  15. #8275
    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    Because you fucking brought them up, you god damn lettuce. You were the one trying to justify 2,000$ price tags in a cash-shop with content boosts, you are the one talking about raids (10/25 man dungeons) and mythic’s (higher difficulty dungeons) from WoW, I mean look at this shit:









    My only point here is that regardless the angle you try to approach such comparison, it’s still sounds kind of dumb.



    Wrong, not everyone knew what they were backing, in fact, NO ONE knew exactly what they were originally backing, remember that pool that a lot of people here like to bring up every time the topic about feature creep is brought up? “Oh, but the community voted for it!”… yeah… that.



    Because I can’t blow the shit up of another player with a title or a dumb mount.



    That is actually true, thus why stuff like this sound kind of silly when someone raises any concerns about it:
    The services i mention are primarily raid/pvp services of which cost upwards of millions of gold but we can throw it in the bin if you wish.

    The only thing that really matters is if that player gets enough enjoyment out of that purchase, personally i would rather have something useful ingame for that purchase other than something purely cosmetic, someone is always going to have an advantage over you in any game just because they can invest twice as many hours into the game or has a extra money but once the game is out there will be no more ship purchases.

    If there are extra features in the game it cant be a bad thing and having them integrated while in development should be much smoother than adding them on later, and with the law system your not going to want to blow up ships too often in high sec space unless you want patrols to come after you.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  16. #8276
    I love how "endgame" keeps popping up.
    They always told me I would miss my family... but I never miss from close range.

  17. #8277
    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    Oh dear fucking lord… dude, it doesn’t matter if you call them just dungeons, raids or “mythics”, the technical name of the content is completely irrelevant to the point, it’s still content that people are willing to get boosted through by others, it happens in most multiplayers games, if not all of them, and it will surely happen in Star Citizen too, but regardless how you try to spin it, it doesn’t justify a cash-shop selling what most refer too by “pay-2-win” with price-tags of thousands of dollars.



    Sure, I can agree to that, but that’s why your previous WoW subscription comparison is just silly, since you are trying to compare people paying 15$ a month for a 30-day access to something they enjoy playing, to paying 2,000$ outright to play less of something that you supposedly enjoy playing.

    If anything, it’s more akin to Blizzard’s “Character Boost” that grants max level to one of your characters, that in my honest opinion, while it’s still not as bad as some of the stuff that SC is profiting from, it’s still also an overpriced bullshit that shouldn’t even exist.



    I’ll ask you again, and where do you draw the line? Does that apply to every other game, or it’s just in Star Citizen case? Either way I can assure you that most people highly disagree with you, EA tried to add “something useful” to their Star Wars loot-boxes, and look where it got them.



    Yes, someone will always be better than you at any video game, because they dedicate themselves to it for longer, because they just are naturally more skilled than you at it, because they are smarter than you, because their strategy for it is just better than yours… because they have a fat bank account shouldn’t be it, I mean, why the fuck should Lil’Billy over there, be where I stand after I pouring hundreds of hours of my life into this fucking thing just because his parents bank account is far deeper than mine? Part of the reason why we play video games it to escape reality, who or what you are IRL, shouldn’t have an effect on it.



    Yawn* “is still not relevant until we know all the ingame mechanics.”, we don’t know about them, but if it’s to justify whatever they are doing, you sure have no problem coming up with a few.
    The law system is an ingame mechanic already implemented and the higher criminal status the harder the patrols after you so its a know mechanic, now we just need criminal status mechanics implemented to actually know some of the consequences there will be to being an outlaw.

    Star Citizen allows anyone to earn all the ships ingame, only thing you wont be able to get is certain cosmetics, WoW on the other hand has tons of items you have to spend real money on and some go for thousands of dollars, i would rather that money be for something actually useful ingame rather just afkn sitting on your spectral tiger TCG mount, so why is it not ok to spend money in SC when you can buy useless cosmetic stuff for the same amount of money for WoW?

    The only time when have a different ship will actually be relevant is with PvP and if you have no skill your not guaranteed to win so most of the time it wont matter what ship your in.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  18. #8278
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    WoW on the other hand has tons of items you have to spend real money on and some go for thousands of dollars, i would rather that money be for something actually useful ingame rather just afkn sitting on your spectral tiger TCG mount, so why is it not ok to spend money in SC when you can buy useless cosmetic stuff for the same amount of money for WoW?
    This line is so full of shit it is painful. Go ahead, show us on the WoW shop the thousand dollar items. You are acting like the bullshit in SC is normal. Fun fact, just because an out of print card game has rewards you can get in game and people charge thousands of dollars for them does not mean Blizzard is turning around with a 1k price tag on a tiger mount. And "tons of items"??? You are confusing WoW with SC as far as the cash shop goes.

    I can tell you one thing though, one is actually a released game and has been for years, the other is a money pit that has put out small snippets and can't get the complete game out.

  19. #8279
    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    My best guess is that his talking about the old limited mounts & pets codes that people sell trough websites such as ebay at ridiculous prices, which is actually against the user agreement and can get you banned… funny part is, people have been doing that with Star Citizen but honestly, I just cba anymore.
    Yeah its why I mentioned the out of print card game. But of course kenn's goal is twisting things to make it sound like Blizz is pulling the same shit as SC and games like Rift with their cash shops. He can't or won't debate normally but no one is surprised.

  20. #8280
    Quote Originally Posted by Justpassing View Post
    I love how "endgame" keeps popping up.
    I'd settle for a beginning or middle game tbh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

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