1. #9261
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Once the insurance system goes is implemented, if your ship doesn't have insurance and it blows up, you won't be able to reclaim/respawn your ship at a hangar terminal like you do to respawn your ship right now. It'll be gone forever. However, if you do have insurance (you'll be able to pay ingame UEC to renew your insurance), then you can just go to a hangar terminal, reclaim/respawn your ship, and off you go, just like it is right no ingame.
    I honestly do not see them doing this. It would be stupid for them to go through with it.
    Take the situation where someone logs out in space during an exploration journey, they stop playing for a few days due to real life commitments and when they log back in their insurance has lapsed, they now have to get back to UEE space to renew and if anything happens they lose their $400 purchase...

    CIG encouraged this belief because it made people prepurchase ships and pay more for LTI....

  2. #9262
    My guess is that insurance will be an automated system, or it will at least have an optional auto-pay feature. You select which things you want on it, ships, components, etc. and then it determines the fee, which is automatically pulled from your UEC balance on a timed interval. If you have LTI on a ship, then the unmodified base ship will be covered, but any modifications you have made will be separate; for example, swapping out a number of components. Things you aren't legally allowed to have, or things that cannot be insured, always have a risk attached to them.

  3. #9263
    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    Ah... just like real-life
    some players have put in a fair amount of money to back the game so it doesnt really make a difference if you never lose your ships you paid real money for, you cant just instantly spawn in a ship after you have lost it and would have to wait days/weeks for the very large ships before you could get a new one, your always going to have a backup ship and you dont even need a ship at all to play the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1001 View Post
    I honestly do not see them doing this. It would be stupid for them to go through with it.
    Take the situation where someone logs out in space during an exploration journey, they stop playing for a few days due to real life commitments and when they log back in their insurance has lapsed, they now have to get back to UEE space to renew and if anything happens they lose their $400 purchase...

    CIG encouraged this belief because it made people prepurchase ships and pay more for LTI....
    maybe having bulk buy as an option to buy as much insurance time as you want with in game credits, buy a year in one go or have a monthly debit come out automatically even if your offline.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2020-03-03 at 08:42 PM.
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  4. #9264
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    im pretty sure there was a mention somewhere if you paid real money for the ship you would never lose it, you just have to make sure its insured ingame to be able to use it again even without LTI



    any ship you paid real money for you should never lose but if you buy a ship ingame and it gets blown up without insurance then you would lose it then.
    I cannot find any official information collaborating this statement.

    Looking at the latest official FAQ on on insurance, it appears that permanent ship loss is still the plan for non insured ships, even if they were bought with real money. The obvious exception, ofcourse, being LTI ships, which you will still have to pay UEC to reclaim.

    Here is the latest official information on how insurance will work.

    Quote Originally Posted by CIG
    The way to ensure that your property will not be lost forever when these events happen is through insurance policies for your ships.

    ...

    Currently, on the Alpha and Public Test Universe (PTU), all ships and vehicles are given a basic insurance plan that does not expire to facilitate testing. At this time, it requires no upkeep or fee for players to acquire basic ship loss coverage. There may be a fee to file a claim or expedite a replacement, however.

    ...

    MY PLEDGE COMES WITH 2/3/6/N MONTH INSURANCE. WHEN DOES THIS TIME START?
    The insurance period included in many pledges available now will have some duration in months as indicated in the pledge details. This time will not begin until the game is live and out of testing altogether.
    Last edited by Val the Moofia Boss; 2020-03-03 at 09:11 PM.

  5. #9265
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    I cannot find any official information collaborating this statement.

    Looking at the latest official FAQ on on insurance, it appears that permanent ship loss is still the plan for non insured ships, even if they were bought with real money. The obvious exception, ofcourse, being LTI ships, which you will still have to pay UEC to reclaim.

    Here is the latest official information on how insurance will work.
    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/s...ith-real-money, there is a mention by a CiG emplyee there, i was never 100% sure but it does look like that you wont completely lose a ship even without insurance, may just have to fork out more money to get it back even if it was unisured when it was destroyed.
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  6. #9266
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    there is a mention by a CiG emplyee there
    That was then unendorsed by the company.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    but it does look like that you wont completely lose a ship even without insuranc
    There is no official word from CIG I can find that suggests this.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1001 View Post
    I honestly do not see them doing this. It would be stupid for them to go through with it.
    CIG was pretty clear on the insurance system from the beginning. "Insurance: 3/6 months" is billed as on of the core features you see when buying a ship or a pledge. You can't miss it. Everyone who bought a pledge saw the words "3/6 month insurance" and immediately realized that there must have been some sort of ship loss system. Anyone who bought the pledge/ship did so knowing that there would be such a system implemented.




    In the past, CIG has assuaged fears about the insurance system by saying that "don't worry, the ingame UEC cost to renew insurance will be pretty cheap".

    IMO, the real problem is that we have never been given hard numbers as to what "cheap" actually means. Is it, say, 10% the ingame price of the ship? IIRC, the ingame price of a Mustang Alpha is 250,000 UEC, so would a 3 month insurance cost 25,000 UEC? If so, then literally anyone could pay off their insurance after twenty to thirty minutes of easy missions.

    The problem with trying to estimate numbers right now is that we are in alpha, and the numbers and game systems are in flux. In 3.7, you could have easily accumulated 25,000 UEC using your mustang by doing simple skimmer missions, but that was back when the AI pirates that spawned in were of no threat to you. Now, it is very difficult (and probably impractical) to do a skimmer mission in a single seater ship, as the AI pirates will tear you to shreds, which means you'd have to do cargo deliveries. The core gameplay loop of Star Citizen hasn't been nailed down. The current gameplay loop and numbers are almost certainly not going to be representative of the loop when the game launches with the insurance system implemented.

    I think the playerbase will be fine with insurance, so long as that system isn't insurmountable. Ie, you don't have to grind a lot to pay off the insurance.

  7. #9267
    so if its 3 months insuracen it already over for me because i nought the game in april 2019 and i destroyed my mustang just recently and got it back
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  8. #9268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proskill View Post
    so if its 3 months insuracen it already over for me because i nought the game in april 2019 and i destroyed my mustang just recently and got it back
    No! Again, the insurance period does not start until the game actually launches. We are in alpha 3.9 right now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    There is no insurance/permanent ship loss system implemented ingame.

  9. #9269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post

    The problem with trying to estimate numbers right now is that we are in alpha, and the numbers and game systems are in flux. In 3.7, you could have easily accumulated 25,000 UEC using your mustang by doing simple skimmer missions, but that was back when the AI pirates that spawned in were of no threat to you. Now, it is very difficult (and probably impractical) to do a skimmer mission in a single seater ship, as the AI pirates will tear you to shreds, which means you'd have to do cargo deliveries. The core gameplay loop of Star Citizen hasn't been nailed down. The current gameplay loop and numbers are almost certainly not going to be representative of the loop when the game launches with the insurance system implemented.
    I've finally been able to upgrade my computer to run this game after pledging 2 years ago, and I'm having trouble with the combat, I'm glad to know its not just me in regards to getting nuked in half a second.

    That said, I only have a Mustang atm, any recommendation on how to practice combat? Or what ship you'd recommend for Merc/Bounty Hunting?
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    .

  10. #9270
    Quote Originally Posted by Lothaeryn View Post
    I've finally been able to upgrade my computer to run this game after pledging 2 years ago, and I'm having trouble with the combat, I'm glad to know its not just me in regards to getting nuked in half a second.

    That said, I only have a Mustang atm, any recommendation on how to practice combat? Or what ship you'd recommend for Merc/Bounty Hunting?
    can try the arena commander module to practice combat, aiming for a cutlass or freelancer would be one to start for doing anything combat related or just ask around and see if ppl are needing crew that way you can get money safely on someone elses ship.
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  11. #9271
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    can try the arena commander module to practice combat, aiming for a cutlass or freelancer would be one to start for doing anything combat related or just ask around and see if ppl are needing crew that way you can get money safely on someone elses ship.
    So not a snowballs chance in hell with a mustang? Or would it be viable with some upgrades.

    Surprised to hear that a Cutlass or Freelancer are the baseline assurances considering their intended purpose.
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  12. #9272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lothaeryn View Post
    I've finally been able to upgrade my computer to run this game after pledging 2 years ago, and I'm having trouble with the combat, I'm glad to know its not just me in regards to getting nuked in half a second.

    That said, I only have a Mustang atm, any recommendation on how to practice combat? Or what ship you'd recommend for Merc/Bounty Hunting?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lothaeryn View Post
    So not a snowballs chance in hell with a mustang? Or would it be viable with some upgrades.

    Surprised to hear that a Cutlass or Freelancer are the baseline assurances considering their intended purpose.
    It's hard to say whether or not the current difficulty of fighting in small ships is supposed to be intended.

    Previously, skimmer missions were pathetically easy peesy because the only AI ships that would spawn in would be Bucanners and Cutlasses. Both had small aggro ranges and you could easy run away from them and get to your skimmer. Even if they were shooting at you, you could easily dodge using thrusters. Even if their shots did hit, they'd have to be hitting you for several seconds to down your shields. Buccaneer AI was infamous for spinning around in space helplessly.

    When patch 3.8 dropped, the AI changed. Now the ships have large aggro radius and will pursue you for a long while. They now have really good accuracy and will hit you even if you are dodging, and will rapidly tear through your shields in a couple seconds. Buccaneer's no longer spin around helplessly in space. If you're in a small ship like a mustang going against another small ship, like the buccaneer, you're roughly even and have about a 50-50 chance of killing them before they kill you. Add in the other other ships that spawn in during the skimmer mission, and it is highly unlikely you will be able to complete the mission with all those ships bearing down on you.

    If you want a greater than a 50-50 chance to taking on another small ship, you'll want to upgrade to a bigger ship, like the Freelancer or the Cutlass. More shields, more armor, more firepower. The trade off of using a larger ship, ofcourse, is that it is more expensive, is slower, and requires more people to fully utilize. There isn't really a point in using a Freelancer or Cutlass for combat over your small ship unless you can get someone on turret duty.

    You can upgrade your Mustang's shield generator and weaponry, but it's still going to be in the small ship tier of general powerlevel. You're certainly not supposed to try taking on a Constellation in a Mustang and never have been. At the top end of the small, single seater ship tier is the Hornet, which is a threat to medium sized ships and things like the Constellation, but that's its limit.

    What I did, as a 315p owner, is I used my 315p for cargo hauling. Made some money on the side grouping up with other players and raiding bunkers. I then used my money to buy the best equipment I could equipment on my 315p. It gives me an edge up on other small ships, but it's not going to make me as good as a Hornet (nor should you expect to reach Hornet level). It gives me a better chance against medium sized ships like the Cutlass, but again, it's kind of a bad idea to try fighting them in the first place.
    Last edited by Val the Moofia Boss; 2020-03-04 at 04:14 AM.

  13. #9273
    Quote Originally Posted by Lothaeryn View Post
    So not a snowballs chance in hell with a mustang? Or would it be viable with some upgrades.

    Surprised to hear that a Cutlass or Freelancer are the baseline assurances considering their intended purpose.
    you can rent ships ingame so if you manage to earn some money you could rent something that could make you more but its 1 day rentals so need to earn at least the basic to rent another, i dont like small ships so i stick with the larger ones and have no issues as small ships shields generally dont last long especially since there are usually several cutlasses or freelancers attacking you.

    Best bet would be try to jump on a crew of a carrack or something large or earn over 40k and rent a prospector and mine.
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  14. #9274
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    im pretty sure there was a mention somewhere if you paid real money for the ship you would never lose it, you just have to make sure its insured ingame to be able to use it again even without LTI



    any ship you paid real money for you should never lose but if you buy a ship ingame and it gets blown up without insurance then you would lose it then.
    A CIG employee did say this. It completely contradicts the whole insurance system and LTI as opposed to x months on purchased ships. The random CIG employee was responding to a concierge ticket.

    Long story short: Their statement is highly controversial, and shouldn't be thrown about as any fact. I honestly think the CIG employee didn't know what they were talking about and it completely blew up from there.

  15. #9275
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    CIG was pretty clear on the insurance system from the beginning. "Insurance: 3/6 months" is billed as on of the core features you see when buying a ship or a pledge. You can't miss it. Everyone who bought a pledge saw the words "3/6 month insurance" and immediately realized that there must have been some sort of ship loss system. Anyone who bought the pledge/ship did so knowing that there would be such a system implemented.
    That was when the game was a different beast, the PVP slider was a thing - enabling people to avoid the part of the game where losses would be far more likely. Now that the game is free-for-all the stakes are considerably higher.

    It just doesn't make any sense to remove people's real-world purchases because of some naff in-game insurance system.

    As an example of how people don't like these things, in Elite people grind their way to a large ship, perhaps a few days or a week's worth of playing. They get their new ship, take it out, get interdicted and destroyed, they spent all their funds on the ship and cannot afford the insurance stipend and therefore lose their ship, essentially starting from scratch in the beginner ship. The amount of people that quit the game at this point is surprising. And that is for stuff bought wholly in game. If it was a real world purchase they had lost there would be absolute hell over it. Imagine the media running with it

    IMO the whole insurance scheme is complete baloney. People have been suckered into thinking there is some value behind it yet CIG cannot even determine what that value is. Like so many of Chris's ideas, it's sounds good on paper but will be totally shit in practice.
    Last edited by 1001; 2020-03-04 at 08:22 AM.

  16. #9276
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1001 View Post
    IMO the whole insurance scheme is complete baloney. People have been suckered into thinking there is some value behind it yet CIG cannot even determine what that value is. Like so many of Chris's ideas, it's sounds good on paper but will be totally shit in practice.
    I think the real problem is that CIG knows that this a big point of ambiguity, and rather than coming out and clarifying once and for all what's actually going on, they are just sitting back and letting people go "well, maybe it won't be too bad?". If they know their choice is going to cause bad headlines, why wait until the launch of the game to drop the bad news? That will only sabotage the crucial live release launch.

  17. #9277
    personally I think ship insurance will not make it into retail (if it goes retail), 2 many countries outside of the US have strong consumer protection laws even for digital goods and I see losing a ship that was bought with real-world money for good as going badly. Esp if it was due to a DC, crash or some other outside influence.

    It's also going to be a turn off to a lot of people, personally I'd never play game / buy a ship if a single mishap causes it to be gone for good less i spend more money on insurance, I deal with that enough IRL i don't want it in a game.

    Also, is it forced PVP now? Skimmed the last few pages and seemed so?
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  18. #9278
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    Also, is it forced PVP now? Skimmed the last few pages and seemed so?
    Non consensual PvP, yes.

    As of right now, there are armistice around stations and cities where you can't shoot your weapons. However, outside of those armistice zones, everything is free game.

    If you catch a newbie flying in their Aurora for the first time having wandered outside the armistice zone, you can blow them up.

    There is a crime system in game right now, where if you have a high enough criminal rating certain places may refuse to do business with you (for example, Hurston won't open their hangars for you to land), and bounties will be placed on you. However, there isn't much of an incentive not to be a dick and blow up newbies in their Auroras (besides not being sussed out by the server), as there are no lasting consequences ingame yet. Your criminal record is wiped clean when you are blown up, and given how permanent character death (another system they haven't talked about in years) and the insurance system haven't been implemented yet, there are no real consequences.

    Next patch will bring prison gameplay, where if you die or are captured as a criminal, you spawn in prison and either have to work for the duration of your sentence, or try to escape, but if you die or are caught in your escape, your sentence is extended.

    The plan is for armistice zones to eventually be removed altogether once there are long lasting consequences to dissuade people from being dicks willy nilly.
    Last edited by Val the Moofia Boss; 2020-03-04 at 05:13 PM.

  19. #9279
    Quote Originally Posted by Majestic12 View Post
    A CIG employee did say this. It completely contradicts the whole insurance system and LTI as opposed to x months on purchased ships. The random CIG employee was responding to a concierge ticket.

    Long story short: Their statement is highly controversial, and shouldn't be thrown about as any fact. I honestly think the CIG employee didn't know what they were talking about and it completely blew up from there.
    i never said i was 100% on it but we wont know for a while yet but insurance shouldnt really be an issue, there could be a way to just always pay it when its due either a monthly or yearly cost and it updates as soon as you login.

    probably best option would be is have the option to always reclaim your ship regardless of insurance but it may costs far more when its uninsured to get a new one, your generally always going to have a spare ship that can safely make money or doesnt cost too much but you can make money without a ship so there are plenty options.

    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    Also, is it forced PVP now? Skimmed the last few pages and seemed so?
    there is a law system inplace so anything thats bad will give you criminal status and a prison system should be coming next patch, to be a successful pirate/PvP in SC you wont really be able to do in a 1 person ship or solo so that would mostly just be the griefing side of PvP, real pirates will do what is most profitable in larger ships with many crew.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2020-03-04 at 06:34 PM.
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  20. #9280
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Non consensual PvP, yes.

    As of right now, there are armistice around stations and cities where you can't shoot your weapons. However, outside of those armistice zones, everything is free game.

    If you catch a newbie flying in their Aurora for the first time having wandered outside the armistice zone, you can blow them up.

    There is a crime system in game right now, where if you have a high enough criminal rating certain places may refuse to do business with you (for example, Hurston won't open their hangars for you to land), and bounties will be placed on you. However, there isn't much of an incentive not to be a dick and blow up newbies in their Auroras (besides not being sussed out by the server), as there are no lasting consequences ingame yet. Your criminal record is wiped clean when you are blown up, and given how permanent character death (another system they haven't talked about in years) and the insurance system haven't been implemented yet, there are no real consequences.

    Next patch will bring prison gameplay, where if you die or are captured as a criminal, you spawn in prison and either have to work for the duration of your sentence, or try to escape, but if you die or are caught in your escape, your sentence is extended.

    The plan is for armistice zones to eventually be removed altogether once there are long lasting consequences to dissuade people from being dicks willy nilly.
    wow... that sucks and kills me desire to play the game....
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