1. #9321
    To solve this dispute, we need to lay the groundwork as such:

    - Insurance system will be in play as it should be.

    When you lose a ship and don't have insurance:

    - You lose access to the ship permanently.
    - The ship is still credited to your account as a purchase, even if inaccessible.

    I think Odezee probably fell for the misinformation before regarding the drama and now is caught up on the idea that "losing the ship" has to mean it isn't credited to your account anymore otherwise you never lost the ship.

    Credited to account != accessible in the game. That's as much as we know for now.

  2. #9322
    Quote Originally Posted by Majestic12 View Post
    To solve this dispute, we need to lay the groundwork as such:

    - Insurance system will be in play as it should be.

    When you lose a ship and don't have insurance:

    - You lose access to the ship permanently.
    - The ship is still credited to your account as a purchase, even if inaccessible.

    I think Odezee probably fell for the misinformation before regarding the drama and now is caught up on the idea that "losing the ship" has to mean it isn't credited to your account anymore otherwise you never lost the ship.

    Credited to account != accessible in the game. That's as much as we know for now.
    What's the point of this insurance crap? Looks like useless bloat to me, forcing you to pay an in-game subscription to a service.

    If your ship get destroyed, you still have the wreck and need to pay money to repair it. Bam! Nothing is removed from your account, you will always have the wreck unless you sell it yourself.

    But yeah, I know, it's not very survival MMO grindfest-y to have stuff that you don't lose as soon as you get DC-ed in a fight or get ganked by 3 guys.

  3. #9323
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Butt Witch View Post
    What's the point of this insurance crap? Looks like useless bloat to me, forcing you to pay an in-game subscription to a service.

    If your ship get destroyed, you still have the wreck and need to pay money to repair it. Bam! Nothing is removed from your account, you will always have the wreck unless you sell it yourself.

    But yeah, I know, it's not very survival MMO grindfest-y to have stuff that you don't lose as soon as you get DC-ed in a fight or get ganked by 3 guys.
    Because replacing ships that are fully kitted out will cost a crap ton of money. If you don't have that money and you lose a fucking carrier-class ship, you probably won't have the reserve funds to replace it, let along put the same equipment on it again. That's the point of the insurance. Ya know, liability, just like owning a car.

  4. #9324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    You still have NOTHING that confirms your claim that:
    “You will never lose your ship regardless of how you acquire it”

    By the contrary, everything in the “outdated” ("past" information?) official FAQs point otherwise:
    “The way to ensure that your property will not be lost forever when these events happen is through insurance policies for your ships.”

    As in real life, insurance policies must be maintained: you must pay a regular fee in galactic credits (the in-game currency) or your policy will lapse and you will not receive a payout or a ship replacement when your ship is destroyed.

    The post that was rescinded, and that tells you that is a subject to change, to look at “past and future information” about it, states that:
    “you will need to pay more to have it replaced in the game, but it won’t be permanently removed from your account

    What exactly am I being “willfully ignorant” about in here? At best, you may claim that nothing is set on stone yet, that most likely in the end players won’t actually be losing their shit, which I do hope so, some sort of fine on top of repaying the insurance to re-acquire your stuff makes way more sense than having to completely re-purchase everything just because you had no insurance, or you were simply late on your payment.

    Regardless, my point still stands, if they are still unsure about how this “Insurance Mechanic” will actually work at base launch, or if they never intended to make players who aren’t covered by it, having to re-purchase everything from scratch after losing it, then stating stuff such as “to ensure that your property will not be lost forever” & “you will not receive a payout or a ship replacement when your ship is destroyed” on their official FAQs was a poor way to express it.



    … which players are not fucking forced opt for, as it’s also indicated on the information released until now:

    “Pilots in Star Citizen can purchase insurance policies for their ships”

    “As in real life, insurance policies must be maintained: you must pay a regular fee in galactic credits”

    What happens in a situation where players are not covered by it has been pretty much the entire point of the discussion, if you were as focused on it as you are on coming up with those lowkey insults to avoid infractions maybe you would have noticed it by now.



    That’s just your worthless opinion about it, and if it was remotely correct, you wouldn’t need to resort to flinging around insults and lies about me and my stance on the project to undermine them.

    It also comes from the sort of a black and white mindset where one can’t be critical about something they support, where people are either “lovers” or “haters”, which is utter nonsense and completely childish.

    Also, how’s the last time I’ve played it relevant to the discussion? Jfc, so fucking transparent. Just how desperate are you here?



    You still brought it up and lied about it though.



    I’ll say it again, because you clearly still didn’t grasp it even when I spelled it out for you.

    I’m not calling you a fanatic because you call on people’s “bullshit”.

    I’m calling this need you have to resort to personal attacks, insults and lies about every user you disagree with, as fanatical behavior.

    Just as I criticized people like EvcRO for doing the same towards anyone who supported the project, it’s actually pretty ironic, he used to flame me for being a fanboy, now I got you trying to insult me for being a hater… I just love this fucking thread and it’s consistency.

    Also, what do you mean “let’s not project here”? That’s pretty much the only thing you’ve done in that entire paragraph, I merely asked you to back up your claim about players never losing their stuff regardless how they acquire them with an official source, and almost 3 pages after you are still here waving your arms and throwing shit around like a little young simian trying to establish dominance instead of just providing the fucking thing.



    I would like to ask you the same, did you watch them?

    Let’s even ignore how vague “the mechanic will be easy to maintain and it will not be a punishment to the players” actually is, they also state that “insurance doesn’t even matter”, then I ask, why is it even a fucking a thing then…? Then you also have Chris on the other video saying that he isn’t even sure that players who engage in actives such as piracy will be allowed to be covered by it… shit, isn’t that some sort of imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offence, fuck if we only had a name for that.

    See my problem here? They keep claiming different things in different places.

    I understand that they are trying to be transparent with the player base, and give them as much information as they can, but if they aren’t sure about how exactly it will work out, might as well just say it instead of going around stating different things in different places, because that only will only raise confusion about it, thus my original little statement which you seem to have such a big problem with… CIG expressed themselves poorly on this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Majestic12 View Post
    To solve this dispute, we need to lay the groundwork as such:

    - Insurance system will be in play as it should be.

    When you lose a ship and don't have insurance:

    - You lose access to the ship permanently.
    - The ship is still credited to your account as a purchase, even if inaccessible.

    I think Odezee probably fell for the misinformation before regarding the drama and now is caught up on the idea that "losing the ship" has to mean it isn't credited to your account anymore otherwise you never lost the ship.

    Credited to account != accessible in the game. That's as much as we know for now.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Butt Witch View Post
    What's the point of this insurance crap? Looks like useless bloat to me, forcing you to pay an in-game subscription to a service.

    If your ship get destroyed, you still have the wreck and need to pay money to repair it. Bam! Nothing is removed from your account, you will always have the wreck unless you sell it yourself.

    But yeah, I know, it's not very survival MMO grindfest-y to have stuff that you don't lose as soon as you get DC-ed in a fight or get ganked by 3 guys.
    LMFAO! willful ignorance all around. i rest my case. smh.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Because replacing ships that are fully kitted out will cost a crap ton of money. If you don't have that money and you lose a fucking carrier-class ship, you probably won't have the reserve funds to replace it, let along put the same equipment on it again. That's the point of the insurance. Ya know, liability, just like owning a car.
    don't bother, they are not looking for facts, just confirmation bias. think about it, you just had to explain to people on the internet, who live in a world where insurance is prevalent for large value purchases, why insurance in a game with spaceships is being used as a mechanic.
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  5. #9325
    Quote Originally Posted by Odeezee View Post
    LMFAO! willful ignorance all around. i rest my case. smh.

    - - - Updated - - -

    don't bother, they are not looking for facts, just confirmation bias. think about it, you just had to explain to people on the internet, who live in a world where insurance is prevalent for large value purchases, why insurance in a game with spaceships is being used as a mechanic.
    Imagine if ships and systems could never be lost, but only damaged beyond field repairs if taking too much damage, and needing a spaceport in order to restore them back to working order.
    Imagine that if you get "killed", you auto-eject and respawn at the nearest spaceport, where your wrecked ship has also been pulled in.
    Imagine having to spend a modicum of money to fix it, and not the GDP of a small country.

    No, wait, that would be FUN and encouraging of PVP encounters, instead of being a pain in the ass. I mean a survival MMO without pain in the ass mechanics and massive consequences for losing in pvp, is just way too fun to be a survival MMO, can't have fun mechanics.

    Yes, I hate survival MMOs.

  6. #9326
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Because replacing ships that are fully kitted out will cost a crap ton of money. If you don't have that money and you lose a fucking carrier-class ship, you probably won't have the reserve funds to replace it, let along put the same equipment on it again. That's the point of the insurance. Ya know, liability, just like owning a car.
    tbh its terrible game design, but i guess the eve crowd (whatever is left of it) will love it

  7. #9327
    anything new about possible release dates or is this game still in development hell even though its probably the most funded game in the last decade

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    tbh its terrible game design, but i guess the eve crowd (whatever is left of it) will love it
    its fine

    like buy a ship all RMT ships should come with insurance

    the payout increases for each upgrade

    it works in GTA it would work here but it doesnt matter because the game will never release

  8. #9328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    tbh its terrible game design, but i guess the eve crowd (whatever is left of it) will love it
    I want it because I don't have all the time in the world to be grinding currency to buy ships all the time. This is why the insurance system will be helpful, because it'll make it easier for those of us who won't be able to commit 4+ hours a day to farming stuff in order to pay for our ships if they get blown up. Both my ships have LTI, but even as it stands I am not giving the game a huge amount of time as my computer has trouble running it.

  9. #9329
    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    Not necessarily, you’ll find a similar system in Elite Dangerous:
    https://elite-dangerous.fandom.com/wiki/Insurance_costs

    The devil is in the details, and the problem here is that not even the developers don't seem to be sure how this shit is actually going to work at base release yet.



    The first singleplayer chapter (S42) beta is supposed to be released this year... but ya know, we all heard that story before at this point =/
    i just want...something

    maybe the dude should have taken the offer from microsoft

    you can imagine a world and all that its fine heck fantasy writers do it all the time but at this point you are just inept because its been half a decade and still nothing
    "you can play the alpha" fuck off thats not the real game thats the same shit star forge pulled and its garbage

    the devs are in over their heads and they are focusing on the wrong shit honestly

    launch the game with about 30 planets
    launch it with the current array of ships and NPCs
    dont worry about "lightinng reflections on players helmets"

    you can upgrade the game over time after release but at this point the game is so old most hype is dead compared to when i first heard about it and thought "hell ill drop WoW once this launches" but now i just think...WoW will be finished when this launches

    you got the money now do the job instead of BS like buying electronic doors

  10. #9330
    Quote Originally Posted by Odeezee View Post
    willful ignorance all around.
    Yes, you are being willfully ignorant.

    You are not addressing what happens to items that are NOT insured, which is what everyone else it talking about. All you are saying is "Insurance Mechanic" over and over, without fully understanding what that mechanic will or will not do, because CIG don't even fully know what that mechanic will or will not do. The one (singular) quote from a dev that talks about this (which happened to be in a non-public forum) was rescinded (ie: revoked, canceled, no longer valid).

    All we know is if you do have insurance, the item will not be lost forever. This is pretty much common sense.

    What happens to a destroyed item in which the insurance has expired? Is it lost forever?
    What happens to a destroyed RMT item in which the insurance has expired? Is it lost forever?
    Since you can purchase UEC Credits, what happens to items purchased in this manner? Can they be lost forever?
    If items cannot be lost forever, what is the purpose of insurance, outside of insuring cargo? Is this nothing more than a convenience tax?

    Luckily, this "Insurance Mechanic" won't be needed for another few years, so CIG have plenty of time to sort this out.

  11. #9331
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    I want it because I don't have all the time in the world to be grinding currency to buy ships all the time. This is why the insurance system will be helpful, because it'll make it easier for those of us who won't be able to commit 4+ hours a day to farming stuff in order to pay for our ships if they get blown up. Both my ships have LTI, but even as it stands I am not giving the game a huge amount of time as my computer has trouble running it.
    Well to me, the mechanic of losing all of that progress if you blow up is what is bad design. Sure it makes sense in the RPG sense, but it also feels terrible for the player and will end up feeling like a chore to make sure you are insured all the time if it's not just something you do once and forget about it.

    What would be a much better way imo is to make the ship damaged after you blow it up and you have to do actual game tasks to repair it rather than just spend money to buy it anew. E.g. it can still fly while damaged but some systems need work, like parts that are difficult to obtain and you have to go get them or actually playing a minipuzzle to fix it. Yeah, can't go overboard with this either because it will just be a chore at some point, but it's much less streamlined.

  12. #9332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    Well to me, the mechanic of losing all of that progress if you blow up is what is bad design. Sure it makes sense in the RPG sense, but it also feels terrible for the player and will end up feeling like a chore to make sure you are insured all the time if it's not just something you do once and forget about it.

    What would be a much better way imo is to make the ship damaged after you blow it up and you have to do actual game tasks to repair it rather than just spend money to buy it anew. E.g. it can still fly while damaged but some systems need work, like parts that are difficult to obtain and you have to go get them or actually playing a minipuzzle to fix it. Yeah, can't go overboard with this either because it will just be a chore at some point, but it's much less streamlined.
    I like this idea. It'd be more consistent with the modern design of the game (namely talking about prison gameplay), where getting killed or blown up doesn't set you back a tremendous amount, but instead simply puts you on a new gameplay section for a few hours (prison gameplay, or in this case, trying to repair your ship), which can be a refreshing experience, and there could be a variety of ways to solve it (going around trying to find parts to fix your ship, or dropping a lump sum of money to just quickly fix it).

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  13. #9333
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    I want it because I don't have all the time in the world to be grinding currency to buy ships all the time. This is why the insurance system will be helpful, because it'll make it easier for those of us who won't be able to commit 4+ hours a day to farming stuff in order to pay for our ships if they get blown up. Both my ships have LTI, but even as it stands I am not giving the game a huge amount of time as my computer has trouble running it.
    Imagine creating a game that is not a slog if you dont pay up extra $$$$

  14. #9334
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    Imagine creating a game that is not a slog if you dont pay up extra $$$$
    The average player will have maybe 2-3 ships with a large portion of players just with starter ships, you will still have another 100 ships to earn ingame, you dont even need a ship at all to play the game, if your going to sink 100 or 1000 hours in the game it doesnt matter what ship you have, a player having a different ship is not going to affect the way you play the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    Well to me, the mechanic of losing all of that progress if you blow up is what is bad design. Sure it makes sense in the RPG sense, but it also feels terrible for the player and will end up feeling like a chore to make sure you are insured all the time if it's not just something you do once and forget about it.

    What would be a much better way imo is to make the ship damaged after you blow it up and you have to do actual game tasks to repair it rather than just spend money to buy it anew. E.g. it can still fly while damaged but some systems need work, like parts that are difficult to obtain and you have to go get them or actually playing a minipuzzle to fix it. Yeah, can't go overboard with this either because it will just be a chore at some point, but it's much less streamlined.
    we dont know everything about the insurance but it will probably tell you if your out of insurance or not, there should be different levels of insurance to cover mods and in the unlikely event your ship is destroyed without insurance there may be a way to buy back the ship at a larger cost but far lower than a new ship, will have to see when they let us know everything about what they want to do with insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    i just want...something

    maybe the dude should have taken the offer from microsoft

    you can imagine a world and all that its fine heck fantasy writers do it all the time but at this point you are just inept because its been half a decade and still nothing
    "you can play the alpha" fuck off thats not the real game thats the same shit star forge pulled and its garbage

    the devs are in over their heads and they are focusing on the wrong shit honestly

    launch the game with about 30 planets
    launch it with the current array of ships and NPCs
    dont worry about "lightinng reflections on players helmets"

    you can upgrade the game over time after release but at this point the game is so old most hype is dead compared to when i first heard about it and thought "hell ill drop WoW once this launches" but now i just think...WoW will be finished when this launches

    you got the money now do the job instead of BS like buying electronic doors
    the game in its current version is for me better than elite dangerous although you wont keep progress, the focus is getting SQ42 out first and when thats out they should have the tech to the the required level to make the universe they want, but with things in the world as it stands not progress will be slower for the next few months at least.
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  15. #9335
    something keeps me away from playing this game, as in enjoying it. maybe its the m+kb thats causing it. its troublesome in a game where u mostly fly a plane or a ship for that matter. what do u guys play with? what joystick would u recommend getting?
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  16. #9336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proskill View Post
    something keeps me away from playing this game, as in enjoying it. maybe its the m+kb thats causing it. its troublesome in a game where u mostly fly a plane or a ship for that matter. what do u guys play with? what joystick would u recommend getting?
    I just use mouse and keyboard.

    I might have used a controller had the game been playable in 3rd person view, but it's not. Using the thumbstick to try to move a FPS camera around around just doesn't work for me.

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  17. #9337
    Quote Originally Posted by Proskill View Post
    something keeps me away from playing this game, as in enjoying it. maybe its the m+kb thats causing it. its troublesome in a game where u mostly fly a plane or a ship for that matter. what do u guys play with? what joystick would u recommend getting?
    a joystick setup will give you that extra level of interaction and make it feel better but can be played fine with just a mouse and keyboard, many are using dual joystick setups but that sort of thing would be mostly for small fighter combat, its mostly about how it feels for you and what you want out of the gameplay.
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  18. #9338
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Butt Witch View Post
    Imagine if ships and systems could never be lost, but only damaged beyond field repairs if taking too much damage, and needing a spaceport in order to restore them back to working order.
    Imagine that if you get "killed", you auto-eject and respawn at the nearest spaceport, where your wrecked ship has also been pulled in.
    Imagine having to spend a modicum of money to fix it, and not the GDP of a small country.

    No, wait, that would be FUN and encouraging of PVP encounters, instead of being a pain in the ass. I mean a survival MMO without pain in the ass mechanics and massive consequences for losing in pvp, is just way too fun to be a survival MMO, can't have fun mechanics.

    Yes, I hate survival MMOs.
    huh? sorry but are you not familiar with the systems the game is going to implement? you HAVE to lose your ship when it is destroyed, though you can eject and try to escape, as it feeds into other careers like bounty hunting, repair and salvage, so when your ship is destroyed you can file and insurance claim, get a new one and keep it moving. if you cannot escape you will wake up at the closest medical facility be it a ship, at a space station or outpost/landing zone. you will have to fix components and systems on your ship like coolers, drives, etc for normal maintenance and from battle/flying mishap damage. atm repairs are pretty cheap, don't know where you got this whole gdp of a small country from. we will have to wait for the final balance pass and the rest of the associated careers like player repairs and salvage to come online. base insurance just covers the base hull of your ship without any of the upgrades you put on it or the cargo you had, those are extra separate insurances that you have to get and will be more costly ofc. so there is always a risk associated with pvp. have you even played the pre-alpha test? O.o
    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    anything new about possible release dates or is this game still in development hell even though its probably the most funded game in the last decade
    release date is when it's ready. what does having a lot of money gathered over 7 years have anything to do with the time to develop a game? is there some correlation i am missing? also if you believe the game will never be released why even bother asking for a release date? O.o
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Jack View Post
    Yes, you are being willfully ignorant.
    haha, well ofc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Jack View Post
    You are not addressing what happens to items that are NOT insured, which is what everyone else it talking about. All you are saying is "Insurance Mechanic" over and over, without fully understanding what that mechanic will or will not do, because CIG don't even fully know what that mechanic will or will not do. The one (singular) quote from a dev that talks about this (which happened to be in a non-public forum) was rescinded (ie: revoked, canceled, no longer valid).
    ahhh the dreaded revisionist strikes. obviously you have no idea what people have been arguing then since it was never about the stuff you mentioned it was abotu stuff bought with RMT and i already addressed the things you brought up but you didn't bother to read those, so why act like you know when it's obvious you are being willfully ignorant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Jack View Post
    All we know is if you do have insurance, the item will not be lost forever. This is pretty much common sense.
    don't tell that to me, tell that to the people who didn't get it, LMFAO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Jack View Post
    What happens to a destroyed item in which the insurance has expired? Is it lost forever?
    all items and upgrades require insurance PRIOR to them being destroyed to be able to claim them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Jack View Post
    What happens to a destroyed RMT item in which the insurance has expired? Is it lost forever?
    you will never lose anything you bought with RMT period. so as Ben said just pay and extra fee then late fees on the insurance and you can claim the ship again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Jack View Post
    Since you can purchase UEC Credits, what happens to items purchased in this manner? Can they be lost forever?
    yup! UEC bought with RMT is not an item and as such is subject to the same volatility as in-game UEC.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Jack View Post
    If items cannot be lost forever, what is the purpose of insurance, outside of insuring cargo? Is this nothing more than a convenience tax?
    LMAO, reading all your questions it's obvious you didn't bother reading anything i said as i answered most of these, but you were still bold enough to try and throw shade as though i was being ignorant, smh. oh the internet. 3 types of insurance, Hull, Upgrades and Cargo so the main thing insurance is used for now are upgrades and cargo and the hull insurance is more of a convenience.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Jack View Post
    Luckily, this "Insurance Mechanic" won't be needed for another few years, so CIG have plenty of time to sort this out.
    it's literally been in-game and working for years though, only thing missing is the cargo insurance... O.o
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    Well to me, the mechanic of losing all of that progress if you blow up is what is bad design. Sure it makes sense in the RPG sense, but it also feels terrible for the player and will end up feeling like a chore to make sure you are insured all the time if it's not just something you do once and forget about it.
    it's a sim though and it's multiplayer and the devs have said that keeping your insurance up to date won't be a chore and they want there to be a risk/reward element to the game so you do not treat your items as though they are throwaway and are more precious with them instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    What would be a much better way imo is to make the ship damaged after you blow it up and you have to do actual game tasks to repair it rather than just spend money to buy it anew. E.g. it can still fly while damaged but some systems need work, like parts that are difficult to obtain and you have to go get them or actually playing a minipuzzle to fix it. Yeah, can't go overboard with this either because it will just be a chore at some point, but it's much less streamlined.
    this is already the plan just for PRIOR to your ship being destroyed, you can do all this. if they do what you are asking for after your ship is "destroyed" then there is no longer a need for Salvage and possibly medical roles. Star Citizen is an MMO and NOT a single-player game, you are asking for single-player mechanics bruh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proskill View Post
    something keeps me away from playing this game, as in enjoying it. maybe its the m+kb thats causing it. its troublesome in a game where u mostly fly a plane or a ship for that matter. what do u guys play with? what joystick would u recommend getting?
    try Thrustmaster 16000, they are a decent entry level HOTAS or HOSAS, but if you are feeling spicy and can find them VIRPILS are better and much higher quality. also remember the game offers more than just flying a space ship, there are ground vehicles and there is fps too, which is much better suited to M+K. also go on YouTube and watch expert M+K players show you just how good you can get at flying and doing tricks.
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  19. #9339
    Quote Originally Posted by Odeezee View Post
    it's literally been in-game and working for years though, only thing missing is the cargo insurance... O.o
    Really? Where do I go to pay for insurance? Where can I see my insurance policies?

  20. #9340
    Quote Originally Posted by Odeezee View Post
    release date is when it's ready. what does having a lot of money gathered over 7 years have anything to do with the time to develop a game? is there some correlation i am missing? also if you believe the game will never be released why even bother asking for a release date? O.o
    Odezee, you know very well why they are asking that. CIG was throwing out release dates every year since 2014 for several years, so anyone who glances over news feeds and don't read into all the details like most of us in this thread do legitimately wonder when the game is actually coming out.

    Not sure why I bothered explaining this again, you very well know about all of this already. Unless of course you're a denier like Kenn.

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