1. #9621
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    The performance will improve even further with vulcan and server OCS,
    Server side OCS has already been implemented and not delivered anywhere near the gains they were hoping for.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    what do you want from an AI there is only so much they can do while walking around a city, the AI thats actually relevant is ones you engage while on missions along with the ones that would be flying around the universe doing whatever job.
    It's not about what I want. It's what they claimed they could deliver. AI that behaved and reacts in a manner indistinguishable from human counterparts, that have elaborate daily routines. Instead the AI is about as basic as it gets. Hell, half the time NPCs are stood on bar stools T-posing.

    Last edited by 1001; 2020-05-24 at 05:52 AM.

  2. #9622
    Quote Originally Posted by 1001 View Post
    Server side OCS has already been implemented and not delivered anywhere near the gains they were hoping for.



    It's not about what I want. It's what they claimed they could deliver. AI that behaved and reacts in a manner indistinguishable from human counterparts, that have elaborate daily routines. Instead the AI is about as basic as it gets. Hell, half the time NPCs are stood on bar stools T-posing.
    They have said that they were not expecting any client side gains from OCS but its a stepping stone for server meshing, vulcan should give the largest gains prior to server meshing but it would still be fairly small compared to what server meshing would do.

    What they are doing is unless you look for it and pay close attention you wont be able to tell who is an NPC and who isnt, there is no magic to make an NPC act like a player, players are the odd ones out in a game and the npcs are actually doing what a normal person would do when things are working properly. The AI they are working with is probably miles above what is required for most games since its a space game.

    Server meshing is that one feature that will let the game work as they need it to, AI is no exception, at the moment the server has to deal with most if not all the AI and players at the same time, they have probably pushed what a single server can do to the limits. The NPCs dont stand on things as much as they used to now so you may only see the odd few.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2020-05-24 at 06:20 AM.
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  3. #9623
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    What they are doing is unless you look for it and pay close attention you wont be able to tell who is an NPC and who isnt, there is no magic to make an NPC act like a player, players are the odd ones out in a game and the npcs are actually doing what a normal person would do when things are working properly. The AI they are working with is probably miles above what is required for most games since its a space game.
    No, that's bullshit.

    The plan was to always have very elaborate capabilities and routines for AI.



    And just one of many posts talking about what they claim they can do

    https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen...i_can_achieve/

    Or any of these search results where people talk about what subsumption will bring to the table

    https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen...elevance&t=all
    Last edited by 1001; 2020-05-24 at 06:50 AM.

  4. #9624
    Quote Originally Posted by 1001 View Post
    snip
    The current capabilties of the AI is already very advanced, once the quantum job/mission system is fully active the npcs will take part and give missions that will create the ecomony within game, if you disrupt trade ships it could cause shortages of items and create missions to deliver or defend. Thats all that is really required of an npc to make the game work.

    There could be more npcs in game than actual players once the game is released.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2020-05-24 at 07:15 AM.
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  5. #9625
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    The current capabilties of the AI is already very advanced, once the quantum job/mission system is fully active the npcs will take part and give missions that will create the ecomony within game, if you disrupt trade ships it could cause shortages of items and create missions to deliver or defend. Thats all that is really required of an npc to make the game work.

    There could be more npcs in game than actual players once the game is released.
    So you've gone from they are only meant to look like players to they never said there would be elaborate AI to the AI is already really advanced

    You flip flop around more than a weathervane in a fucking hurricane.

    The AI, as it stands, is abysmmal. I don't know why you lie about these things, it most certainly is not very advanced otherwise why would they be standing on bar stools T-posing so often, their pathing is also abysmmal as you regularly see NPCs clipping into each other, furniture, walls, doors etc.

  6. #9626
    Quote Originally Posted by 1001 View Post
    So you've gone from they are only meant to look like players to they never said there would be elaborate AI to the AI is already really advanced

    You flip flop around more than a weathervane in a fucking hurricane.

    The AI, as it stands, is abysmmal. I don't know why you lie about these things, it most certainly is not very advanced otherwise why would they be standing on bar stools T-posing so often, their pathing is also abysmmal as you regularly see NPCs clipping into each other, furniture, walls, doors etc.
    I said its hard to tell an npc from a player and thats true when its in space or on the ground, i never said anything about elaborate AI or anything so stop giving incorrect information. The current version of AI is a simple version that still does its job.

    The current AI on the planets are just for show mainly and also tests out what the server can handle, the AI in space are pretty good at what they need to do, we are talking about a space game that will have probably in the millions of AI, currently there is at least a few hundred AI that are working without the required tech, AI is doing the job its supposed to do and the chair standing and t poses are very rare now, you do like to complain about anything possible in a game within development.

    AI in star citizen have to do more things than the AI in any other game especially for an MMO its even more difficult. There is at least 200 plus AI in Area 18 atm and not one if standing on a chair or tposing.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2020-05-24 at 09:02 AM.
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  7. #9627
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    I said its hard to tell an npc from a player and thats true when its in space or on the ground, i never said anything about elaborate AI or anything so stop giving incorrect information. The current version of AI is a simple version that still does its job.

    The current AI on the planets are just for show mainly and also tests out what the server can handle, the AI in space are pretty good at what they need to do, we are talking about a space game that will have probably in the millions of AI, currently there is at least a few hundred AI that are working without the required tech, AI is doing the job its supposed to do and the chair standing and t poses are very rare now, you do like to complain about anything possible in a game within development.

    AI in star citizen have to do more things than the AI in any other game especially for an MMO its even more difficult.
    Haha, yeah yeah sure thing Kenn.

    It's always everyone else that's wrong isn't it....

  8. #9628
    Quote Originally Posted by 1001 View Post
    Haha, yeah yeah sure thing Kenn.

    It's always everyone else that's wrong isn't it....
    Your the one posting incorrect information though, while the AI is still in its base form its doing the job its told to, populate areas and make it more alive and to participate in missions, its not perfect but it works.

    True version will make those npcs do jobs, from bartending to flying a trading ship which will create the economy and a living universe, the AI is currently already more advanced than many other games as the AI needs to do much more than what other games require an AI to do, there is currently more than 600 active AI in stanton and they are not static entities.
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  9. #9629
    Why is it the more I hear about this game the more I think the devs and producers are just fleecing people for money. They obviously made claims that they now or having trouble living up to, and from what I’ve heard there is no computer advanced enough in the world to be able to do what they say they want to be in this game.

  10. #9630
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Your the one posting incorrect information though, while the AI is still in its base form its doing the job its told to, populate areas and make it more alive and to participate in missions, its not perfect but it works.
    Sigh. How is it incorrect? Is the AI poor? Yes, that is undebatable. Does the AI do stupid stuff like T-pose, stand on chairs, clip into things? Yes, that is also undebatable. Did CIG say they would produce very elaborate AI routines and abilities? Yes, that is also undebatable.

    So, what exactly is incorrect?

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    True version will make those npcs do jobs, from bartending to flying a trading ship which will create the economy and a living universe, the AI is currently already more advanced than many other games as the AI needs to do much more than what other games require an AI to do, there is currently more than 600 active AI in stanton and they are not static entities.
    True version? So they're doing what, working on the false version atm?

    How is it more advanced? They don't fucking do anything apart from walk down a corridor and back again, or stand arouind leaning on walls or railings. How is that more advanced?

    Do you even game bro?

    Look, this super subsumption AI was meant to arrive in 2015, it is now 5 years later and it is nowhere in sight, just basic AI and pathing that glitches all over the place.

  11. #9631
    Quote Originally Posted by 1001 View Post
    Sigh. How is it incorrect? Is the AI poor? Yes, that is undebatable. Does the AI do stupid stuff like T-pose, stand on chairs, clip into things? Yes, that is also undebatable. Did CIG say they would produce very elaborate AI routines and abilities? Yes, that is also undebatable.

    So, what exactly is incorrect?



    True version? So they're doing what, working on the false version atm?

    How is it more advanced? They don't fucking do anything apart from walk down a corridor and back again, or stand arouind leaning on walls or railings. How is that more advanced?

    Do you even game bro?

    Look, this super subsumption AI was meant to arrive in 2015, it is now 5 years later and it is nowhere in sight, just basic AI and pathing that glitches all over the place.
    You lied about what i said when i never said the things you stated, the AI currently does its job and standing on chairs and t poses are a rare thing in certain areas of the game, does it matter if an AI like to stand on chairs as im pretty such normal humans do that also.

    They cant implement the AI version they want until after server meshing, because it will add even more AI into the game, the AI fly ships in a 3D enviroment avoiding crashing into asteroids, other players, following a law system so they are pretty advanced as it is, why are you even mentioning the AI in the city when they are programmed to walk around and act like citizens.

    They cant implement the quantum version of the economy/job system until after server meshing, which will change what the AI does across the whole SC and that would implement NPCs flying around the verse, subsumtion is integrated into quantum.
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  12. #9632
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    does it matter if an AI like to stand on chairs as im pretty such normal humans do that also.
    I don't know shit about star citizen, I'm not sure I ever posted in this thread before, but I just came to say that this sentence is one of the greatest I have ever read.

  13. #9633
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    You lied about what i said when i never said the things you stated, the AI currently does its job and standing on chairs and t poses are a rare thing in certain areas of the game, does it matter if an AI like to stand on chairs as im pretty such normal humans do that also.

    They cant implement the AI version they want until after server meshing, because it will add even more AI into the game, the AI fly ships in a 3D enviroment avoiding crashing into asteroids, other players, following a law system so they are pretty advanced as it is, why are you even mentioning the AI in the city when they are programmed to walk around and act like citizens.

    They cant implement the quantum version of the economy/job system until after server meshing, which will change what the AI does across the whole SC and that would implement NPCs flying around the verse, subsumtion is integrated into quantum.
    Oh zip it already.

    In this post you said they were only going to be indistinguishable in looks despte that never being the case.
    That mainly only concerns AI that would be flying around space primarily, but even now if you wear some normal clothes and sit next to a bunch of AI you cant tell if they are a player or not. You can't even tell straight away if your fighting a player in space either.
    Then you doubled down and claimed that they were never going for elaborate AI routines or abilities.
    What they are doing is unless you look for it and pay close attention you wont be able to tell who is an NPC and who isnt, there is no magic to make an NPC act like a player, players are the odd ones out in a game and the npcs are actually doing what a normal person would do when things are working properly. The AI they are working with is probably miles above what is required for most games since its a space game.
    And then when presented with video and link evidence showing they were going for elaborate AI routines and abilities you tried to claim it is already very advanced despite it obviously not being the case.
    The current capabilties of the AI is already very advanced, once the quantum job/mission system is fully active the npcs will take part and give missions that will create the ecomony within game, if you disrupt trade ships it could cause shortages of items and create missions to deliver or defend. Thats all that is really required of an npc to make the game work.
    Flip flopping all over the place just to try and prove someone is wrong. Then you start claiming other people are the ones lying....

    You are so full of shit, it's unreal.
    Last edited by 1001; 2020-05-24 at 11:07 AM.

  14. #9634
    Quote Originally Posted by 1001 View Post
    snip
    Your so into SC failing you make up your own meanings of what other people say to try and justify your point.

    what i did say is.

    1. Npcs do look like any player would look like, if you played hide and seek it would be hard to find that player if they blended in, but AI can never be the same as a player.

    2. I never said anything about them not going for a more advanced version of the AI, there will still be npcs even in the full version hanging around doing nothing acting just like a normal citizen, players dont act like normal citizens in games.

    3. The AI is advanced, the AI use the ships just as a player would and fly in group formations to anywhere they want and its still not complete. They just implemented a new 3D navigation and collisition system, they add more things to the AI everytime, doesnt need to work perfectly to be more advanced than other AI systems.
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  15. #9635
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Your so into SC failing you make up your own meanings of what other people say to try and justify your point.

    what i did say is.

    1. Npcs do look like any player would look like, if you played hide and seek it would be hard to find that player if they blended in, but AI can never be the same as a player.

    2. I never said anything about them not going for a more advanced version of the AI, there will still be npcs even in the full version hanging around doing nothing acting just like a normal citizen, players dont act like normal citizens in games.

    3. The AI is advanced, the AI use the ships just as a player would and fly in group formations to anywhere they want and its still not complete. They just implemented a new 3D navigation and collisition system, they add more things to the AI everytime, doesnt need to work perfectly to be more advanced than other AI systems.
    Here's one I prepared earlier...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1001 View Post
    Haha, yeah yeah sure thing Kenn.

    It's always everyone else that's wrong isn't it....

  16. #9636
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    Tbh, this game makes less sense than politics, to me.

  17. #9637
    it seems to me that the dev want to absolutly make the game from scratch, no ?
    I mean there are already several games with working net code and way more players active in a "server" than a few 50.
    why are they blizzarding it and trying to reinvent the wheel for every details ?

  18. #9638
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeenith View Post
    it seems to me that the dev want to absolutly make the game from scratch, no ?
    I mean there are already several games with working net code and way more players active in a "server" than a few 50.
    why are they blizzarding it and trying to reinvent the wheel for every details ?
    50 player servers are only a limit for now while getting tech ready, it will be one universe 1 shard for everyone, the AI will also be apart of the universe flying around going to work, so you can have.
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  19. #9639
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeenith View Post
    it seems to me that the dev want to absolutly make the game from scratch, no ?
    I mean there are already several games with working net code and way more players active in a "server" than a few 50.
    why are they blizzarding it and trying to reinvent the wheel for every details ?
    Initially they were outsourcing a lot of their work to various studios which sounded great, but they had this weird idea that they could just bish bosh bash these 'modules' together and have a game.
    Then the Star Marine debacle happened and everything started being brought in-house as they felt they would have better control (despite having no experience) and the shit-snowball has only carried on rolling and getting bigger since.
    They were also gold sponsors for a networking project but it's not being used as far as I know.

    They talked about having hundreds of thousands in one space 3+ years ago but that's obviously not materialized. Sadly, everything is talk with this company.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erin Roberts Feb 2017
    So with the next big release a lot of the underlying game is there and then we can look at transferring people between servers so we can have hundreds of thousands of people maybe in one instance, but that doesn’t come online until later.

  20. #9640
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    50 player servers are only a limit for now while getting tech ready, it will be one universe 1 shard for everyone, the AI will also be apart of the universe flying around going to work, so you can have.
    Do you seriously still believe that? I lost faith already 2 years ago that this game ever will be finished.

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