[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Gaidax]

I can't believe people still think CIG is a game dev studio. It is quite obviously a money laundering operation. Either Russian or South American.

I would not go that far, but I sure wonder whether there is any actual plan to release it ever or they would rather keep milking their jpegs forever.

[Henako]

Failing to understand the technical difference between the two there is not even a point to discuss it with you if its not clear...

If it's so basic, it should be easy for you to explain it. Please do.

[Mister K]

If it's so basic, it should be easy for you to explain it. Please do.

I am not the one claiming they are the same
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden...f_(philosophy)

Game Engine differences for one.
3D Ship models which allow movement within that needs to be tracked, the ships are much more complex (if i need to explain how you clearly not played either of the games and are here to troll).

It's like comparing landing with a helicopter compared to a VTOL jet. They are both very different.

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I can't believe people still think CIG is a game dev studio. It is quite obviously a money laundering operation. Either Russian or South American.

Yeah and 5G is mind control.

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you mean "future, soon to be in the game" scope right?

Feature Creep Online if anything. Still, gj coming to this thread and trolling tho, good use of individuals time

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So you dont know? Or you do, but its just too much typing? I get it, as an actual software developer myself, I understand how your little fingers can get so tuckered out.

Big software developer ain't you then. You should understand the difference between game engines and how different systems work.

1) Car in GTA V can be driven.
2) Car in Grand Turismo has many more physics and moving parts in terms of systems (tracking car health, breaking and how it affects handling) and so forth.

Essentially, it's the same principle comparing No Man Sky to Star Citizen. Just because two games have a planet you can land on, does not mean they both the same. Another example would be War Thunder and Microsoft Fling Simulator, again very different.

It's a shame you used that to compare the games and then calling your self a software developer. Can't be a very good one then.

[Gorsameth]

I am not the one claiming they are the same
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden...f_(philosophy)

Game Engine differences for one.
3D Ship models which allow movement within that needs to be tracked, the ships are much more complex (if i need to explain how you clearly not played either of the games and are here to troll).

It's like comparing landing with a helicopter compared to a VTOL jet. They are both very different.

But Kenn9530 told me that server meshing would be easy in SC because Dual Universe already had a somewhat similar system. And now your telling me that similar systems in different games can be really different?

[Beazy]

Big software developer ain't you then. You should understand the difference between game engines and how different systems work.

1) Car in GTA V can be driven.
2) Car in Grand Turismo has many more physics and moving parts in terms of systems (tracking car health, breaking and how it affects handling) and so forth.

Essentially, it's the same principle comparing No Man Sky to Star Citizen. Just because two games have a planet you can land on, does not mean they both the same. Another example would be War Thunder and Microsoft Fling Simulator, again very different.

It's a shame you used that to compare the games and then calling your self a software developer. Can't be a very good one then.

So, you still don't know or understand the technical aspects between the two? I didnt ask for you to compare GTA and Grand Turismo kiddo, nor did anyone say anything about being the same, I specifically asked you to explain the technical aspects that I do not understand, that differentiate the two engines regarding "Seamless planetary landings". As someone as versed in software development as you, you surely understand the difference between game features and engine features right?

So, whats up with those technical aspects? Do you think it lies in something old school like basic memory management or maybe the Cryengines rendering interface? You must understand what sets them apart to make a comment like that. . . right?

Or you could make another deflection post, make up straw men, and call people names like a child, but I have a feeling you know deep down how actual software development works, so you should be able to explain those differences to me any minute now. . . .

[Mehrunes]

I said no game is ever really complete and thats fact, if you have to patch a game after launch its not compete is it, its almost impossible for any game to really be complete, there is always something to change or add.

I don't know about you, but I'd say simply repeating the point of contention of the post you're replying to instead of actually addressing it makes for an atrocious argument.

I am not the one claiming they are the same
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden...f_(philosophy)

That doesn't mean you haven't made claims yourself. You're the one claiming there are differences, for example. Just because you made that as a counterclaim to @Beazy doesn't mean it's not a positive claim. The moment you made an actual counterclaim the burden of proof shifted to you. You either don't know what burden of proof is about (and as such link sites you don't understand for some reason), or you do and you just tried to deflect and create a smokescreen when pressed on your claims.

[Mister K]

So, you still don't know or understand the technical aspects between the two?

Huh? Yeh, it seems, you don't.

I didnt ask for you to compare GTA and Grand Turismo kiddo,

Grow up lad, you really resulting to calling people "kiddos" online? I gave you an example, there are more calculations that have to be completed and tracked in CryEngine, streaming of other players and exact points and locations of those players. You do not have a fully featured ship which has multiple states inside and outside in No Man Sky. You are comparing apples and oranges and failing to see it, sorry if I can't take you seriously Mister, self proclaimed "Software Developer" (asking SQL questions on MMO-C LOL!).

nor did anyone say anything about being the same, I specifically asked you to explain the technical aspects that I do not understand

You are the one that brought up the comparison between Star Citizen and No Mans Sky, are you feeling alright?

No man sky has been doing that with garbage hardware on the PS4 and XBone. . . . . . . . . . . on a custom engine they built in house with like 16 people. . . .

that differentiate the two engines regarding "Seamless planetary landings". As someone as versed in software development as you, you surely understand the difference between game features and engine features right?

I am (was) a Web Developer, there is a difference but some logic applies to both. They are both executed in-engine, what are you on? There is a whole another aspect of multiplayer which I haven't really mentioned, also the biggest cause of issues within Star Citizen (poor framerates due to netcode * players on server).

So, whats up with those technical aspects? Do you think it lies in something old school like basic memory management or maybe the Cryengines rendering interface? You must understand what sets them apart to make a comment like that. . . right?

How is this even related? I am not about to give you a breakdown of what makes the two work and how Star Citizen is much more difficult to develop for multiple reasons (I have already touched upon) compared to No Man Sky as per your original comment. Again, not understanding the difference between the two. Just because both have a similar functionality does not make them equally viable to develop.

Or you could make another deflection post, make up straw men, and call people names like a child, but I have a feeling you know deep down how actual software development works, so you should be able to explain those differences to me any minute now. . . .

You are asking basic SQL questions on MMO-C, I am sorry, I am not taking you seriously as a self proclaimed "software developer". Not deflecting anything, merely pointing out your BS and self proclaimed importance because you are trying to pull the "i know my shit card coz i do wordpress".

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That doesn't mean you haven't made claims yourself. You're the one claiming there are differences, for example. Just because you made that as a counterclaim to @Beazy doesn't mean it's not a positive claim. The moment you made an actual counterclaim the burden of proof shifted to you. You either don't know what burden of proof is about (and as such link sites you don't understand for some reason), or you do and you just tried to deflect and create a smokescreen when pressed on your claims.

Two games are different. Comparing a similar functionality between the two is moronic. Apples and Oranges. He made the original claim without explaining the reasoning.

There are more dependencies on a game like Star Citizen to fully work than No Man Sky. Compare a single player RPG vs WOW. Both will have inventory, but I can tell you one will be much more difficult to develop hence longer time in development. Same analogy goes for what I mentioned with GTA V and something like iRacing or GT.

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No man sky has been doing that with garbage hardware on the PS4 and XBone. . . . . . . . . . . on a custom engine they built in house with like 16 people. . . .

CIG is looking pretty pathetic right now. . . . again, thanks for pointing that out.

You made the claim, you explain it. How is it similar?

[Beazy]

. . .

Right, so if you don't know how it works, just say it.

Nothing you typed above explained the technical aspects of "Seamless planetary landings" in either engine.

So, can give me the technical aspects of seamless planetary landings in the CryEngine vs NMS in house engine or not? Are you just going to keep trying to save face with moving goal posts and making up straw men?

[Mister K]

Right, so if you don't know how it works, just say it.

Nothing you typed above explained the technical aspects of "Seamless planetary landings" in either engine.

So, can give me the technical aspects of seamless planetary landings in the CryEngine vs NMS in house engine or not? Are you just going to keep trying to save face with moving goal posts and making up straw men?

Clearly neither do you when you originally stated that comment.

Again I have already stated it above. You don't place a toilet without doing the plumbing first. The entire game is based on procedural generation with simple flight models etc. A lot of game features are tied to each other in SC, that is why SC is much harder to develop and completely uncomparable to No Many Sky as per your original comment.

You need functionalities implemented for both server and client side not just client side. This is complicated further when you have a ship where another X players can be walking around and doing their own while data is being streamed when landing. That is the difference. The server and multiplayer aspect.

Going round in circles now (you must enjoy that, it's what this whole thread is, people running around chasing each other playing kiss chase).
This game, is, not, comparable to No Many Sky, just because there are similar game features working COMPLETELY differently.

Good night.

[Beazy]

Clearly neither do you when you originally stated that comment.

Again I have already stated it above. You don't place a toilet without doing the plumbing first. The entire game is based on procedural generation with simple flight models etc. A lot of game features are tied to each other in SC, that is why SC is much harder to develop and completely uncomparable to No Many Sky as per your original comment.

You need functionalities implemented for both server and client side not just client side. This is complicated further when you have a ship where another X players can be walking around and doing their own while data is being streamed when landing. That is the difference. The server and multiplayer aspect.

Going round in circles now (you must enjoy that, it's what this whole thread is, people running around chasing each other playing kiss chase).
This game, is, not, comparable to No Many Sky, just because there are similar game features working COMPLETELY differently.

Good night.

So you dont know. You continually talk about game design, and haven't once talked about literal technical limitations of either engine. . . . . Thanks for the update. /fistbump.

You should have followed the conversation completely, just sayin`.

[Cyclone Jack]

So, can give me the technical aspects of seamless planetary landings in the CryEngine vs NMS in house engine or not?

Yes. They are different engines. NMS engine was built from the ground up to support this; CryEngine was not.

[Mister K]

So you dont know. You continually talk about game design, and haven't once talked about literal technical limitations of either engine. . . . . Thanks for the update. /fistbump.

You should have followed the conversation completely, just sayin`.

I know the differences between the two games and how technically different they are. I understand that building a game which has multiple players playing within a close proximity is much more difficult than a single player game for the reasons I have mentioned countless times. (syncing data points of the current location and state of players/ships which NMS does not have to do).

This is clearly CGIs fault and I am not defending their choice of engine to complete these tasks, but CryEngine was not suited for the features that are in Star Citizen (among them being the one we are arguing about). THAT IS THE FEAT and a reason why the two games are not comparable (as well as the multiplayer aspect). The original pre-modded CE was 8sq miles with 16-32 players, RSI has modded the shit out of it for SC.

I am still waiting on your claim how to be supported by anything. That is the main argument this spawned from. Bloody "software developer" my arse (just to suit your argument LOL), whatever helps you sleep at night tho.

No man sky has been doing that with garbage hardware on the PS4 and XBone. . . . . . . . . . . on a custom engine they built in house with like 16 people. . .

Networking complicates things and you as a self proclaimed "software developer" should understand why these two games are not comparable, even if they have similar feature(s).

[Beazy]

I know the differences between the two games and how technically different they are. I understand that building a game which has multiple players playing within a close proximity is much more difficult than a single player game for the reasons I have mentioned countless times. (syncing data points of the current location and state of players/ships which NMS does not have to do).

This is clearly CGIs fault and I am not defending their choice of engine to complete these tasks, but CryEngine was not suited for the features that are in Star Citizen (among them being the one we are arguing about). THAT IS THE FEAT and a reason why the two games are not comparable (as well as the multiplayer aspect). The original pre-modded CE was 8sq miles with 16-32 players, RSI has modded the shit out of it for SC.

I am still waiting on your claim how to be supported by anything. That is the main argument this spawned from. Bloody "software developer" my arse (just to suit your argument LOL), whatever helps you sleep at night tho.



Networking complicates things and you as a self proclaimed "software developer" should understand why these two games are not comparable, even if they have similar feature(s).

Damn son! There's enough straw men in here to protect 14 acres of corn.

So I take it you still have no insight on the "technical aspect"s of either engine?

[XDurionX]

This game, is, not, comparable to No Many Sky, just because there are similar game features working COMPLETELY differently.[/B][/SIZE]

Of course not, No Man's Sky is released and playable.

[Mister K]

Damn son! There's enough straw men in here to protect 14 acres of corn.

So I take it you still have no insight on the "technical aspect"s of either engine?

You should have gone into being a comedian, might have done better than a "software developer" still waiting on your

No man sky has been doing that with garbage hardware on the PS4 and XBone. . . . . . . . . . . on a custom engine they built in house with like 16 people. .

and how its relevant to Star Citizen, but ok there Mr Beazy, whatever floats your goat

Of course not, No Man's Sky is released and playable.

Jheeze madness ain't it.

[Beazy]

You should have gone into being a comedian, might have done better than a "software developer" still waiting on your



and how its relevant to Star Citizen, but ok there Mr Beazy, whatever floats your goat

LoL, you really should have read through the initial convo before white knighting.

[Pohut]

Of course not, No Man's Sky is released and playable.

What's super hilarious is if, and that's a massive IF, Star Citizen is ever released, it will be in a much much worse state at release than No Man's Sky ever was.

[Mister K]

What's super hilarious is if, and that's a massive IF, Star Citizen is ever released, it will be in a much much worse state at release than No Man's Sky ever was.

It won't ever be "released" it's a tech project. As long as money keeps getting added the scope will get bigger and it will continuously be built upon.

What I wouldn't mind seeing and even care, if the game does keep building for another 10 years however the technologies that are created will get licensed to other studios. But that would have to imply everything that they have written is well optimised. Can't effectively license/sell unoptimised code. This will fund the game and help other studios use it for interesting projects themself. RSI becomes sort of like CryTek/EPIC/Amazon third-party modding vendor (unlike ofc).

In this scenario, the game not releasing and taking time is not a problem. It's basically a publicly funded, on-going project. However, this is a changed spec and those who donated before missed deadlines or scope change could/should be refunded.

Again the hostility, trolling from opposition, and die hardsucking CRs one eyed snake spawned from the never ending scope changes / delays is getting tiring (and I am very surprised how some frequent members of both sides spend hundreds of hours per year arguing, truly sad).

Without a doubt, a game that has been mismanaged and is suffering from CRs leadership. However, to make something great, you have to be looked at being an absolute nutter and doing what others before have not done. Look at triple A studios and the risks they are taking, oh wait... exactly. We have not had any major disruption in the industry since the mid 2000s. Game Studios have been taking proven methods and just rehashing them, specially in the MMO world.

Without companies taking risks (and (not) succeeding with them ie Star Citizen thus far) we as the consumers will suffer slow progress. But some people are happy with the current formula of the same old shit, year after year, small incremental changes. But then again, incremental changes are not necessary bad.

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Now to those who purchased a game package, did you get your 10 hours gameplay? If so, it's most likely been worth it. Still cheaper than a cinema ticket/food. I sure know I play this game once per 6 months to see how/what has changed and whether I can have fun for more than 6 hours.

One small addition:
The BIGGEST worrying fact for the game is that, all these technologies will take time, another 2-4 years to complete and make into the game. AFTER you have a fully functioning game, you still need a SHIT TON of quests/storylines and things to do to make it fun, worth playing. That's a further 1-2 years of development for content only + bug fixes and refinement of existing features on top of that. Oh and we know that CR will add even more on developers plate (animations, toilets etc are all fundamental for a captaining world, see Rockstar how details affect a world with character).

[Majestic12]

In this scenario, the game not releasing and taking time is not a problem. It's basically a publicly funded, on-going project.

Wait, you really see no issue with the game continuously being pushed back? The public funding level is dynamic, not static for one, and CIG has no guarantee it will keep going until they are done. It's an extremely high-risk game.

To add to that, we can see how, in excruciating detail, CIG's burn rate of cash has been increasing. We don't have data from the recent years but it's higher than the financial report as they are bigger now.

It's pretty dramatic to say that it is not a problem. It definitely is, and backer patience is not infinite.

However, this is a changed spec and those who donated before missed deadlines or scope change could/should be refunded.

For context: CIG does not offer refunds anymore and have not for years. Do you think they should re-offer those, then?

The bottom line is: CIG was always good at talking and selling people their own dreams. Creating it is a separate thing entirely, and thus far the result has been quite unimpressive.

Back in the day we used to meme about not getting a game by 2015. It's 2020 and we're nowhere near anything closely resembling a product for Star Citizen. That really puts things into perspective on how terribly this project has been mismanaged.

The truth is that Chris should have been thrown out years ago and replaced like he was on Freelancer.

[MrAnderson]

Still amazing how you can think that removing Chris Roberts would magically make a game like Star Citizen come out faster.

Chris Roberts is the reason for all the multiple delayed games in existence and it doesn't have anything to do with the dificulty and complexity of the task at hand.

Please Roberts stop mismanaging Unisofts BeyondGood&Evil2. For the sake of gaming gods get away from Bethesdas Starfield and the new Elder Scrolls. Stop iterating the new GTA6 with new features, just resking GTA5 and get on with it! Leave Elite to Braben and stop messing with those icy planets and release them already along with the promised walking inside our ships and EVA'ing in space!