[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Deus Mortis]

They have taken so long to actually come out with this game that the upcoming consoles could probably play the game.

[Katchii]

Why would you need weeks to 1/ Give an explanation of the goals of our new roadmap and what to expect from it and then more weeks before you can 2/ Show a rough mockup of the proposed new roadmap with yet more weeks before you can 3/ Share a work in progress version of the roadmap for at least one of our core teams and then even more weeks before 4/ And then finally transition to this new roadmap

To your point, a company that knows wtf they're doing doesn't need weeks to do something like this, it takes days (at worst) to pivot on your direction based on what you know you have done, what you know you need to get done and what you know you need to do to get there.

It's the getting there part that takes time, not the deciding on where to go, for any competent company with a project manager with half a damned brain.

The problem is, as evidenced by the fact that has happened multiple times over the development of this game is that CIG apparently has very little clue on what they need to get done or what it takes to do it.

[Beazy]

CRobberts doesn't even understand what hes doing.

[Rennadrel]

They have taken so long to actually come out with this game that the upcoming consoles could probably play the game.

True enough. They may have to at some point, I have my doubts that the game will be financially viable once it goes live.

[Majestic12]

I think you meant roadmap for the roadmap. Literally
P.S.
Kenn has been curiously absent now...

Kenn probably is fighting in the Star Citizen civil war that's raging on Reddit and Spectrum.

A new Roadmap roundup was posted yesterday, quite unimpressive as usual. Another thing gone.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/s...july-31st-2020

I read a comment that the thing removed was "too close" to salvaging so it had to go. Made me chuckle a little bit, but you know, salvaging has really been a victim. For me, it was probably the mechanic that I looked forward to the most.

[Majestic12]

YongYea's new Star Citizen video:



He made one back in the day too and was slammed by the SC community.

Comment section is gold too btw.

[Gorsameth]

I think the best part of the roadmap for a roadmap drama is that is a roadmap for sq42 that is supposed to be in beta in less then 2 months.

[kenn9530]

I think the best part of the roadmap for a roadmap drama is that is a roadmap for sq42 that is supposed to be in beta in less then 2 months.

There is obviously going to be some delay due to working from home, but players wont ever have access to the beta anyway, they have already mentioned players should be happy enough with the progress when they do an update about it.

[Barzotti]

but players wont ever have access to the beta anyway, they have already mentioned players should be happy enough with the progress when they do an update about it.

What the hell, this level of disrespect from CiG is baffling. How can they get away with this "Give us your money and fuck you, you're not entitled to anything even if you paid and you should feel honored you've been fed with false promises and leftovers" attitude?

[Xeenith]

that would explain the last 4 or 5 months, not the 5 years of the situation this "game" is stuck into?

[justandulas]

This is easily the worst alpha I’ve ever paid to be a part of. And some idiots are spending thousands on ships that will never see the light of day

At this point, the game will never leave testing and will be vaporware someday

[kenn9530]

What the hell, this level of disrespect from CiG is baffling. How can they get away with this "Give us your money and fuck you, you're not entitled to anything even if you paid and you should feel honored you've been fed with false promises and leftovers" attitude?

If you backed the project you took any risks that go with it, its not like anyone else is developing another space MMO so you just have to suck it up.

Beta was always going to be closed beta so when you get your hands on it that will be full release, its not like there are no other games to play while we wait for it to be completed.

[XDurionX]

If you backed the project you took any risks that go with it, its not like anyone else is developing another space MMO so you just have to suck it up.

Beta was always going to be closed beta so when you get your hands on it that will be full release, its not like there are no other games to play while we wait for it to be completed.

Oh there is very little risk involved. Selling something is signing a contract, and they made very specific promises. It would be grounds for legal action if they didn't provide what they sold. Backers have been incredibly lenient until now, but i totally see CIG going bankrupt if they start sueing to get their monies back.

[kenn9530]

Oh there is very little risk involved. Selling something is signing a contract, and they made very specific promises. It would be grounds for legal action if they didn't provide what they sold. Backers have been incredibly lenient until now, but i totally see CIG going bankrupt if they start sueing to get their monies back.

Its a donation and are only entitled to the standard 30 day refund policy if you fall out of that area your not entitled to anything and would lose a lawsuit easily, there has already been a few trying to get refunds and a few got partial ones but many got nothing back, the origional 34k backers pledged for the kickstarter version of the game, any other backers were donating money for the much larger game that evolved from the stretch goals and developing the game into an MMO.

[Katchii]

Oh there is very little risk involved. Selling something is signing a contract, and they made very specific promises. It would be grounds for legal action if they didn't provide what they sold. Backers have been incredibly lenient until now, but i totally see CIG going bankrupt if they start sueing to get their monies back.

If you read the Terms of Service now, they pretty much outright say that if you don't cancel within 14 days, you waive the right to complain about anything and your money is pretty much theirs to do whatever the fuck they want with.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/tos#fundraising

They can change what they promised to deliver.

They can delay the promise of delivery indefinitely.

They can flat out NOT deliver what they promised.

And you can't do anything about it as long as they continue to develop the game.

Please note: Pledges made under previous TOS continue to be governed by the corresponding clauses of the TOS, (or of the Commercial Terms, as applicable) which were in effect when those Pledges were made.

RSI is raising funds for the Game and other RSI Services. You may select one or more of the pledges for in-game items (“Pledge Item(s)”) offered on the Website, or through RSI’s customer service, and pay the indicated amount(s) (the “Pledge Funds”) in accordance with the following terms agreed between you and RSI.

Your Pledge Funds are a deposit to be used for the development and production cost of the Game, including the Pledge Items, and the costs of operating and hosting the Game, the Website and the other RSI Services, as well as RSI’s corporate expenses associated with the foregoing (the “Game Cost”).

The Pledge Funds will be earned by RSI at the earlier of:

when the Pledge Item becomes functional in Star Citizen’s Alpha Persistent Universe (or is delivered separately, such as the game Squadron 42), or

when your Pledge Funds have been expended for the Game Cost.

Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in these TOS, you may cancel your order of Pledge Items for any reason within 14 days of the date on which the order was made (“Cancellation Period”).

To cancel your order during the applicable Cancellation Period, you simply need to notify us in writing of your decision to cancel your order. The easiest way to do so is to complete and submit to us our support request form which can be found here. You can also cancel your order during the applicable Cancellation Period by emailing us at support@cloudimperiumgames.com.

If you cancel your order during the applicable Cancellation Period, we will without undue delay, and in any event within fourteen (14) days from the date on which we receive notice of your decision to cancel your order, fully refund to you the respective Pledge Funds. In accordance with applicable financial control and banking rules, we reserve the right to refund you using the same means of payment as you used to make your order.

If you already have received your Virtual Goods and cancel your order within the applicable Cancellation Period, we will remove the relevant Virtual Goods you ordered from your Account once we have processed your cancellation notice and you will no longer be able to access or use those Virtual Goods.

RSI agrees to use its good faith business efforts to deliver to you the Pledge Item(s) as soon as possible. You agree that any unearned portion of your Pledge Funds shall not be refundable until and unless RSI has ceased development and failed to deliver the relevant Pledge Item(s) to you. In consideration of the promises by RSI hereunder, you agree that you irrevocably waive any claim for a refund of your Pledge Funds except as set forth in the preceding sentence.

For the avoidance of doubt, following the Cancelation Period, in consideration of RSI’s good faith efforts to develop, produce, and deliver the Game and the other RSI Services with the funds raised, you agree that all earned Pledge Funds shall be non-refundable regardless of whether or not RSI is able to complete and deliver the Pledge Item(s), the Game and/or the other RSI Services. In the unlikely event that RSI is not able to deliver the Pledge Item(s), and/or the Game, RSI agrees to refund any unearned portion of your Pledge Funds, and to post an audited cost accounting on the Website to fully explain the use of the funds raised for the Game Cost.

You acknowledge and agree that the Game and the Pledge Item(s) delivered to you may differ in certain aspects from the description of the Game and the Pledge Items on the Website at the time of your Pledge, due to the evolving design of the Pledge Items and the Game during development.

For the avoidance of doubt, all payments for items delivered immediately or soon after purchase, such as recurring website subscriptions or alpha passes, are not covered by this Section IV, but by Section VI below. Merchandize is defined and covered by Section VII below.

Anyone who pledges money for this game at this point, with THESE terms of service, is an absolute moron IMO.

[XDurionX]

If you read the Terms of Service now, they pretty much outright say that if you don't cancel within 14 days, you waive the right to complain about anything and your money is pretty much theirs to do whatever the fuck they want with.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/tos#fundraising

They can change what they promised to deliver.

They can delay the promise of delivery indefinitely.

They can flat out NOT deliver what they promised.

And you can't do anything about it.



Anyone who pledges money for this game at this point, with THESE terms of service, is an absolute moron IMO.

I don't know about the US but in the EU ToS don't supersede any laws, many of these clauses just might be void.

[Katchii]

I don't know about the US but in the EU ToS don't supersede any laws, many of these clauses just might be void.

My point being, CIG is trying to do business under these TOS.

Backers from different countries will have differing levels of success trying to combat this in a legal setting.

[XDurionX]

My point being, CIG is trying to do business under these TOS.

Backers from different countries will have differing levels of success trying to combat this in a legal setting.

TBH i've never seen any ToS as aggressive as these, i'm not a lawyer but i REALLY doubt they would stand any legal challenge. I doubt people would hire a lawyer for 40 dollar, but some day a 1000$ pledger might get disgruntled and once he has a case, all others will as well and the whole house of cards will tumble down.

[Katchii]

TBH i've never seen any ToS as aggressive as these, i'm not a lawyer but i REALLY doubt they would stand any legal challenge. I doubt people would hire a lawyer for 40 dollar, but some day a 1000$ pledger might get disgruntled and once he has a case, all others will as well and the whole house of cards will tumble down.

I certainly hope so. All of the people who have said that CIG/SC/SQ42 being in this perpetual crowdfunding, development purgatory IS their business plan have their feelings pretty much validated by those TOS.

[Gorsameth]

While much of the ToS is probably completely unenforcable I'm not sure you will actually get your money back outside of the normal within X days.
There is a product to play, no matter how unfinished it is which stops the usual way of being able to refund a pre-order before its released.

An yes SC's ToS is super agressive because early on a whole bunch of kickstarter backers demanded refunds and there was nothing CIG could do to stop them, they don't want a repeat of them because they need the money to keep the doors open despite not having shipped a product.