1. #10921
    The overall tone of the roadmap thread on the sub is also very poor. People are, for the moment anyway, pretty pissed off. https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen...pdate_20200724

    I just don't understand what is happening at CIG, they have more employees than ever, they've got more sales than ever yet everything continues to get scaled down. Whether it's patch content, roadmaps, patch cadence or community videos and despite scaling down they still struggle to hit their revised targets. Every year they change it up claiming they were too "optimistic" the previous year and yet they still make a mess of things. It's crazy.

    It leaves you feeling there must be something drastically wrong in the way things are managed. I cannot imagine trying to run my company the way CIG do.

  2. #10922
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Yes but the point was to sell the ship and the game at the same time. Why wouldn't they put some more hours into making its physics actually work ?

    Honestly if I've never seen/read anything about SC and watch this video where one smaller ship rams into the "main focus" and it behaves the same way car collisons in PS1 Die Hard games did, I'm pretty confident this wouldn't work as effective advertisement. Especially if after this painful video, I decide to have a look at SC's current status, development time and the cost of this freaking ship, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't pay any cent at all.
    The were there just so players can look at them, anyone that wanted a to spend thousands would do so regardless since those sales are rare as it is so it doesnt matter if the ship is operating as it should. Actually when you ram into something there is a good chance your ships is going to lose wings, weapons, engines and such, the large ships like hammerhead are actually designed to ram into another ship.
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  3. #10923
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1001 View Post
    The overall tone of the roadmap thread on the sub is also very poor. People are, for the moment anyway, pretty pissed off. https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen...pdate_20200724

    I just don't understand what is happening at CIG, they have more employees than ever, they've got more sales than ever yet everything continues to get scaled down. Whether it's patch content, roadmaps, patch cadence or community videos and despite scaling down they still struggle to hit their revised targets. Every year they change it up claiming they were too "optimistic" the previous year and yet they still make a mess of things. It's crazy.

    It leaves you feeling there must be something drastically wrong in the way things are managed. I cannot imagine trying to run my company the way CIG do.
    I'm still thinking that they should have axed stretch goals in the Kickstarter campaign before they had all of their core tech lined up, designed and developed. All of the stretch goals should be post release features that aren't critical to the core gameplay. The players and developers both got greedy and ultimately I think we will end up with at least half as many promised features when SC goes live. Right now it's so bungled and dysfunctional, the only features that should be on the roadmap for release should be adding planets and tech improvements like server meshing. Stuff like ship implements, weapons and items, that stuff shouldn't even be a priority for coding. Gameplay and tech, are the most important in getting a game working, those need to be the focus.

  4. #10924
    Quote Originally Posted by Majestic12 View Post

    Now that you're banned for blatant shitposting, I'm going to leave you with my favourite Star Citizen video series ever: Sunk Cost Galaxy. Enjoy! And may it make the passing of time that much faster for you.



    Anyone looking to have some fun, check out the video series. It goes over a lot of Star Citizen's history throughout the years.
    Despite me posting in here just a few weeks ago to complain about the spam, this quote and the linked video series are just... amazing. I have not watched all of it yet, and I don't know how verifiable a lot of that guys' claims are, but oh lord. Even disregarding all the Star Citizen stuff, and looking only at Chris' history (I was only familiar with the Freelancer stuff and that him leaving Origin Systems was not such an amicable departure) it is enough to dishearten anyone.

    I only superficially followed the stories surrounding SC and this thread (again, there's just so much repeated droning spam). Sure, sometimes there were hints of "hey this might actually be vaporware", however, I still kind of hoped something might come out of this and there'd be an enjoyable game to play. But, that video series was made in 2017/2018. The only thing that has changed since then is the amount of money Chris managed to acquire, yet no game is in sight.

    Disclaimer: I have not played the alpha/beta/early access/tech demo/whatever and have no intention to. If someone is marketing and/or selling a game, then they should offer the game instead of some half-baked in-development thing filled with "potential".

    But I must ask - some posters claim there is "prisoner gameplay" and "bounties/jobs in space", but what does that actually mean? What I gathered from this thread is that the planet/city/whatever is essentially empty, so who/how/why can even be imprisoned, and if the ships barely function how are there any space jobs, especially jobs relying on ship combat? And how are there even vendors and quest givers if the game doesn't even have AI or trading? And whatever happened to some head tracking nonsense they were developing years ago? Shit, now I have too many questions.

  5. #10925
    Quote Originally Posted by Diaspar View Post
    But I must ask - some posters claim there is "prisoner gameplay" and "bounties/jobs in space", but what does that actually mean? What I gathered from this thread is that the planet/city/whatever is essentially empty, so who/how/why can even be imprisoned, and if the ships barely function how are there any space jobs, especially jobs relying on ship combat? And how are there even vendors and quest givers if the game doesn't even have AI or trading? And whatever happened to some head tracking nonsense they were developing years ago? Shit, now I have too many questions.
    The current game isnt as bad as some people in here make it out to be. Sure, its a shell of what its supposed to be and the bugs are plentiful, but it is playable. Ships do have some bugs here n there, but calling them "barely functional" is an overstatement if I ever saw one. Ship combat is fine, albeit kinda weird with how it plays out (mostly jousting\strafing around). Upcoming patch is changing a ton when it comes to that though, so cant really comment on how good its gonna be in 3.10.

    When it comes to jobs, there are plenty of contracts\missions you can do. All that you get from your mobiglas, which is SC's version of your inventory\quest\map menu. Missions can range from killing some basic NPC ships in space, bountyhunting other criminal players/NPCs, to clearing out bunkers on planets. Maybe go inside caves to find a dead person, or even mine crystals inside said caves. Or just skip the missions altogether and just mine stuff. Either by hand, or on a bigger scale with ships. Or haul cargo with your ship from planet to planet. The AI is fairly basic at the moment, but its a work in progress and is just getting better. Its hard to tell though, as AI is tied to servers and the servers tend to be unstable or running at a low tickrate, which makes em kinda retarded at times. Pretty much like playing on easymode.
    All that said, the missions do feel kind of basic atm, but we're getting more complex missions as time goes on, with us already having a few "story" missions already, with multiple parts to them.

    The cities do have a fair amount of NPCs in them, with plenty of vendors and whatnot all over the place, so not sure where you got that info from. My guess is that they mostly meant player population in those cities, because servers are limited to 50 atm. Player trading is coming in the upcoming patch, but just credits for now. But since you can buy pretty much what you want with credits, its definitely a step in the right direction.



    This video goes over some of the prison gameplay. Basically, if you do crime and get a bounty on your head, youll go to prison if you're killed (or captured) by bountyhunters or NPC police. This dude does have a ton of other videos as well, showing more of what the game is about, his critical view of the game, and what he hopes to see in the future etc. He does give off a mostly positive vibe when it comes to the game though, so keep that in mind. He does have some videos discussing the delays etc though.

    If you're interested in a more techincal view of the game, Digital Foundry has a good series on it. Also shows off some of the headtracking stuff you mentioned.

    But yeah... there are bugs. Gameplay loops are missing. Delays happens all the time. Servers crash, and all that can make for a frustrating experience. But when it does work, SC can actually be really fun, and thats something some people in here fail to realize.

    You can be super critical of the project, and still enjoy the game we currently have.
    Last edited by Hoofey; 2020-07-25 at 08:19 PM.

  6. #10926
    do ppl that play on m+kb

    do u have strafe left\right on A\D or Q\E?
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  7. #10927
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proskill View Post
    do ppl that play on m+kb

    do u have strafe left\right on A\D or Q\E?
    I play with m+kb

    I have strafe as A/D and roll as Q/E

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  8. #10928
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    The were there just so players can look at them, anyone that wanted a to spend thousands would do so regardless since those sales are rare as it is so it doesnt matter if the ship is operating as it should.
    [citation needed]

    Kenn, we talked about this. You can't just say things.

  9. #10929
    Quote Originally Posted by Henako View Post
    [citation needed]

    Kenn, we talked about this. You can't just say things.
    He's kinda right with this one though. I lurk in the concierge chat from time to time, and people get legit pissed when their precious Idris or Javelin runs out of stock before they're able to pick up one. The demand is absurdly high for those, and CiG knows it.
    Credit ones usually disappear in minutes, while warbond ones tend to stay up for a couple of hours, with the last wave of stock being up for a day or 2.

  10. #10930
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoofey View Post
    But yeah... there are bugs. Gameplay loops are missing. Delays happens all the time. Servers crash, and all that can make for a frustrating experience. But when it does work, SC can actually be really fun, and thats something some people in here fail to realize.
    Few people enjoy unfinished and messy products, the people who actively play are a minority and most will never touch the game until it's done. That's just the reality of things.

    It's even more narrow for testers. The only reason I was actively testing back in the day is purely out of curiosity(I'm a dev myself, just not for games) plus the gaming hobby. If I was looking to "have fun" and seek an experience I doubt I'd play at all beyond possibly just once. Some people consider Evocati to be a massive privilege(MrAnderson hi) but in reality it was and still is nothing more than a glorified unpaid Q/A job.

    Most customers just don't care about anything other than release, and that's where CIG shot themselves in the foot by overpromising and underdelivering. If they hadn't done that, the project would have had a much better reputation.

  11. #10931
    Quote Originally Posted by Majestic12 View Post
    Most customers just don't care about anything other than release, and that's where CIG shot themselves in the foot by overpromising and underdelivering. If they hadn't done that, the project would have had a much better reputation.
    Yeah feature creep and the years involved in this project have murdered many aspects of it. However people that are invested will point on the sheer amount of money the game is raking in. I do think the longer it goes on the more they are testing the patience of their big backers. Time will tell the story on this game. If they haven't released in another year or two and they continue to push things back and fail to deliver on the roadmap you'd like to think they money would start to dry up.

    I have no desire to play a buggy mess of an alpha but this genre of game isn't my "Holy Grail" of games either. From what I can tell it does look very dull, lack of people able to play at once, massive crippling bugs/crashes are just a major no go for me.

  12. #10932
    Quote Originally Posted by Majestic12 View Post
    Few people enjoy unfinished and messy products, the people who actively play are a minority and most will never touch the game until it's done. That's just the reality of things.
    You're right, this experience is definitely not for everyone. The issue with SC though, is that it wont have a hard release. At some point in the future, one of the bigger patches will mark the point where CiG will feel that the game is good enough and they'll just slap a released tag on it, even if the game lacks promised features. But we will probably have a very playable game long before that happens, so its gonna be interesting to see how that plays out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Majestic12 View Post
    It's even more narrow for testers. The only reason I was actively testing back in the day is purely out of curiosity(I'm a dev myself, just not for games) plus the gaming hobby. If I was looking to "have fun" and seek an experience I doubt I'd play at all beyond possibly just once. Some people consider Evocati to be a massive privilege(MrAnderson hi) but in reality it was and still is nothing more than a glorified unpaid Q/A job.
    I never got why people pride themselves on being an evocati tester. Like you said, its just an unpaid Q\A job. Sure, you get to see some new features before everyone else, but the evocati server is such a shitshow that it would just leave a bad first impression of said features. Then again, thats just my opinion. Probably why I dont touch PTU stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Majestic12 View Post
    Most customers just don't care about anything other than release, and that's where CIG shot themselves in the foot by overpromising and underdelivering. If they hadn't done that, the project would have had a much better reputation.
    Yeah... If you're not a huge fan of spacegames in general, you best look elsewhere for your fun, because you need some thick skin to be able to endure the frustration this game currently delivers. Even more so if you follow the development, because the amount of stupid shit they spend their hours on is enough to drive someone crazy.
    Last edited by Hoofey; 2020-07-26 at 12:24 PM.

  13. #10933
    My god, I forgot how funny the Sunk Cost Galaxy series was. This part is my favourite, the Star Citizen ship-history Tetris style. Starts around 10:40:



    There's so much information here and the editing does not disappoint..

    In the same video by the way, the guy did similar numbers as I did with my backer x citizen ratio, but he goes deeper than what I did and involves a big picture kind of thing.

    Good to see that great minds think alike. I haven't watched this series in years since it was released!

  14. #10934
    Quote Originally Posted by Majestic12 View Post
    Good to see that great minds think alike. I haven't watched this series in years since it was released!
    Looking forward to the next chapter, supposed to go over the engine, tech and all that stuff.

  15. #10935
    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/s...update/3260782

    Updates. SQ42 video should be coming out in the next few weeks, apparently it's been a bit of a shitshow with multiple reshoots and requiring the art team to work overtime to pull new footage. I don't know why they're so dead-set on these overly produced videos that they rightly say are extremely time consuming. Which is odd, because they frame this new SQ42 video series as a "lower effort" video supposedly in a "scrappy and fast manner" but it sure seems like it's taken an excess amount of time for such an affair. I get that reshoots may be necessary, but given how extensive they appear to sound it seems almost like whoever mapped out the video royally screwed up on matching footage to the topics which is bit of a problem. It seems people care less about how well produced it is and far more about what they include based on the comments, it's not exactly a happy affair.

    And a new roadmap is coming. Which I feel they've done a few times before?

  16. #10936
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    Why did it take them this long to come out and say it? Should have posted a notice ASAP after the public publish date had passed "sorry we didn't get a video out on time, we didn't get the footage we wanted at the quality we wanted, this is why, we are redoing it", rather than leaving the community in limbo.

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  17. #10937
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Why did it take them this long to come out and say it? Should have posted a notice ASAP after the public publish date had passed "sorry we didn't get a video out on time, we didn't get the footage we wanted at the quality we wanted, this is why, we are redoing it", rather than leaving the community in limbo.
    Who knows. I imagine there was a lot of internal pressure and handwringing that led to poor communication decisions. The way the frame it is even odd, as it's framed initially as a down-and-dirty info dump that's not intended to take up much in the way of dev time/resources, but then he waxes poetic about how it wasn't measuring up to their quality expectations as if it's some heavily produced marketing video. I feel bad for the art team who have to work even longer hours so that they can grab whatever footage it is they're grabbing.

  18. #10938
    They realized they need to actually make the SQ42 content to shoot the video of it.
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2020 - that's two-zero-two-zero, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of robed sissies.

  19. #10939
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    They realized they need to actually make the SQ42 content to shoot the video of it.
    Kinda hard to make SQ42 ship battles when they keep rebalancing the flight model and combat mechanics every year. Gotta keep going back and redoing prior battles everytime there is a rebalance.

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  20. #10940
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Why did it take them this long to come out and say it? Should have posted a notice ASAP after the public publish date had passed "sorry we didn't get a video out on time, we didn't get the footage we wanted at the quality we wanted, this is why, we are redoing it", rather than leaving the community in limbo.
    Because CiG needs to announce something (they announced a roadmap to a roadmap to a roadmap, ffs) to boost the upcoming Anniversary sales.

    More seriously, CiG reacted to news starting running stories about delays. Like this one two days ago:

    https://www.kotaku.com.au/2020/07/ev...t-squadron-42/

    I don't think CiG was planning to say anything at all (open communication is definitely not their strongest suit), they're just reacting to public backlash in their typical fashion.
    Last edited by Barzotti; 2020-07-29 at 06:20 PM.

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