[Megathread] Star Citizen

[kenn9530]

Ah yes calling someone ignorant, classy. I don't care how many AI are in the fucking game. Reduce the number of AI and let more PLAYERS play the damn game. 40 people for a MMO is PATHETIC. Period. Bullshit the mmo part has not been implemented. It is not a solo player game and is a supposed MMO, just has a server cap that is a joke. Even searching for "is star citizen a mmo" brings up their own site which labels it as a mmo. I'll take their word on defining the game over yours.

More ppl in a server wouldnt change anything anyway, players would still be doing the same as they are doing in a 40 player server as they would do in a 120 player server and you still might not see other players that often, the game is going to be mostly populated by npcs which will also generate missions for the players, so AI is really important for the game.

The game is being developed simple as that, until they have everything inplace they have no need to increase the server capacity, smoother gameplay is much more important than more players on a server.

[Kyanion]

More ppl in a server wouldnt change anything anyway, players would still be doing the same as they are doing in a 40 player server as they would do in a 120 player server and you still might not see other players that often, the game is going to be mostly populated by npcs which will also generate missions for the players, so AI is really important for the game.

Oh so you know what the players would do as well? You mean people wouldn't form up to try and do some ship combats? People wouldn't try and fight other players and cause some problems? Nah they'd just do the same thing if there was 40 people as if there was oh wait you put a cap as well, 120 now? Such MMO. This 9+ year game cannot handle players because it has too much room for AI's that love to T-Pose. Got it.

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The game is being developed simple as that, until they have everything inplace they have no need to increase the server capacity, smoother gameplay is much more important than more players on a server.

I notice you quickly dropped the 'mmo part of the game has not even been implemented' comment once I provided proof that what you said was wrong.

That game is being developed is as true now as it was 9 years ago. You think there is no need to increase server capacity and I strongly disagree. Your opinion means as much an anyone's else but you try to push yours as truth or facts. Big difference.

[Henako]

I notice you quickly dropped the 'mmo part of the game has not even been implemented' comment once I provided proof that what you said was wrong.

Whoa, be fair. This is actually a big improvement for him. Usually he just fabricates some bullshit and talks over you.

[Kyanion]

Whoa, be fair. This is actually a big improvement for him. Usually he just fabricates some bullshit and talks over you.

Hah you're right, silly of me to expect a "Yeah, you are right" from him.

[Cracked]

I'm not a server tech so maybe I'm wrong but feel free to correct me, this is just what others have told me: the issue with scaling up large pvp battles like this is that the server load grows exponentially.

Let's say you have 10 players hitting one ability per second. That means, each second, the server gets 10 inputs and it needs to send to each of the 10 players, so 100 outputs.

Now if you have 100 players each hitting 1 ability, that's 100 messages that need to be sent out to 100 people - 10,000 outputs. So 10X as many people means 100X the server capability.

Again, I know this is probably grossly oversimplified and there's all sorts of optimization that can be done, but it's my understand that this is still an exponential growth problem.

It is, but it can be overcome. It was actually one of the selling points of Stadia-exclusive games (which has fallen apart).

In your 100 example, consider the server only sends the outputs to 10 selected players, that is 1000 messages. Each of those 10 players then send the messages to 10 another players, making it 100x10 messages for any single bottleneck at most, but now all 100 players have the updated state. You trade latency for scale. It might not be practical today (and worse yet, with cheaters, it's unlikely to ever be implemented successfully), but there are ways to do it. The stadia games promised this and could effectively deliver, because their servers shouldn't be able to be tampered by players (so the middlemen couldn't change the messages and redundancy would be unnecessary) and because their servers are physically collocated, so latency is minimal, making the tradeoff a no-brainer.

[kenn9530]

Oh so you know what the players would do as well? You mean people wouldn't form up to try and do some ship combats? People wouldn't try and fight other players and cause some problems? Nah they'd just do the same thing if there was 40 people as if there was oh wait you put a cap as well, 120 now? Such MMO. This 9+ year game cannot handle players because it has too much room for AI's that love to T-Pose. Got it.

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I notice you quickly dropped the 'mmo part of the game has not even been implemented' comment once I provided proof that what you said was wrong.

That game is being developed is as true now as it was 9 years ago. You think there is no need to increase server capacity and I strongly disagree. Your opinion means as much an anyone's else but you try to push yours as truth or facts. Big difference.

There is a crime system inplace, there are many players who like to be lawful and not just do random PvP and it still doesnt change how the game would play currently no matter how many players are on a server, players will do the content they enjoy regardless of server limit.

Its a fact that the systems needed to really make it an MMO are not inplace, noone here has even stated the current version is a proper MMO but there is still adequate ways to group and play with your friends, so no you dont have any ability to prove anyone wrong.

Server capacity is not the issue, its what the servers currently have to do that limits what can be done with 1 single server, smoother gameplay is more important than more players on a server and thats a fact, its a space game your not supposed to see loads of players all over the place anyway unless its a heavily populated area.

[Kyanion]

There is a crime system inplace, there are many players who like to be lawful and not just do random PvP and it still doesnt change how the game would play currently no matter how many players are on a server, players will do the content they enjoy regardless of server limit.

You know except for massive ship combat because you can't have enough people on the server to do so. But don't worry SC gonna keep selling ships that require multiple people!

You can call it what you want but it is a MMO, it has been marketed to people as a type of MMO no matter the fancy words used. The wikis refer to it as an mmo, searching for "is star citizen a mmo" brings it up as one, even the blurb from their own site when searched has it mentioning MMO. I don't care what YOU think it is and what systems you think need to be in place to consider it one. You don't matter when it comes to what they have said.

It is a mmo and a very bad one at that. 40 player server cap, but plz buy our ships that take 10-20 people.

[MrAnderson]

You know except for massive ship combat because

Yet you still haven't posted a video of a massive ship combat from other space game that's better than Star Citizen ones.

[1001]

That large ship combat is very uninspiring.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

[video=youtube;F4QfS-WgroE]Yet you still haven't posted a video of a massive ship combat from other space game that's better than Star Citizen ones.

I'd say that Space Engineers' large ship battles give SC a run for their money. At least the battles don't take place beyond visual range, and the damage inflicted actually affects the geometry of the hull in ways that SC's don't.

[Kyanion]

Yet you still haven't posted a video of a massive ship combat from other space game that's better than Star Citizen ones.

Whataboutisms don't help you. We're talking about SC. The game that CAN NOT have more than 40 people playing it so you cannot have a battle with more than 40 solo piloted ships. If people are in the same ship together, guess what happens, even less ships in the fight. Zzzz.

[kenn9530]

You know except for massive ship combat because you can't have enough people on the server to do so. But don't worry SC gonna keep selling ships that require multiple people!

You can call it what you want but it is a MMO, it has been marketed to people as a type of MMO no matter the fancy words used. The wikis refer to it as an mmo, searching for "is star citizen a mmo" brings it up as one, even the blurb from their own site when searched has it mentioning MMO. I don't care what YOU think it is and what systems you think need to be in place to consider it one. You don't matter when it comes to what they have said.

It is a mmo and a very bad one at that. 40 player server cap, but plz buy our ships that take 10-20 people.

The game is not released yet so it doesnt matter what the server cap is, what matters is when its released how many players will be able to be in the same area, so all this BS your talking about now doesnt matter, its just you trying to justify your dislike of the game or the company.

I never once stated the game wasnt going to be an MMO, it actually meets the criteria to currently be an MMO as it is but many of the systems that would make it a proper MMO are not implemented yet, so the current version of the game doesnt reflect what the final version will be. As usual you just ignore what is actually going to be in the game just because its not implemented yet.

[stormgust]

Massive battles would be spread out across multiple servers and ships would constantly be switching between those servers depending on distance, the current version of the game if it was only loading ships should have no issues with 100-200 ship battles atm, the main problem the servers have currently is they have the whole stanton system to operate along with the players on 1 single server.

"The whole stanton system" really isn't a lot though, when the majority of all game systems are not yet implemented (If I remember correctly, each of those 100-200 ships may have its own special feature somewhere down the road). Server meshing may fix load issues on the current feature set, or it may allow more features on the current player numbers. It certainly won't allow for both, as that'd scale the number of servers needed exponentially, and keeping those in sync is a whole other level of complexity (not to mention cost for server upkeep).

A 200 ship battle would be split up into lets say 4 servers so each server is only handling 50 ships, tech does have limits and we will find out what those are when the server techs are being implemented.

At the current performance leves, it'd be more like 50 servers for 200 ship battles if some more major features are implemented.

[Kyanion]

The game is not released yet so it doesnt matter what the server cap is, what matters is when its released how many players will be able to be in the same area, so all this BS your talking about now doesnt matter, its just you trying to justify your dislike of the game or the company.

Oh sure but they have no problem taking money and SELLING ships on the cash store that require multiple people to use. It doesn't matter what your OPINION on the matter is, what matters is what CIG does.

Again, selling ships that take multiple people and then having a server cap of 40 is fucking pathetic.

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I never once stated the game wasnt going to be an MMO

The MMO part of the game has not even been implemented yet so try again

Sorry, what is a game selling ships that take multiple people to use, trading/selling amongst players, some pvp, wikis for the game calling it a MMO, their own website showing on searches as an MMO mean exactly? It means it is a MMO.

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As usual you just ignore what is actually going to be in the game just because its not implemented yet.

Because all that matters is what is in the game right now! Period! Hopes and dreams don't mean shit. What is in the game? What does the game try to sell on the cash shop? There is the answer. It is a MMO with a 40 player cap that sells ships needing multiple people. Pathetic.

[kenn9530]

"The whole stanton system" really isn't a lot though, when the majority of all game systems are not yet implemented (If I remember correctly, each of those 100-200 ships may have its own special feature somewhere down the road). Server meshing may fix load issues on the current feature set, or it may allow more features on the current player numbers. It certainly won't allow for both, as that'd scale the number of servers needed exponentially, and keeping those in sync is a whole other level of complexity (not to mention cost for server upkeep).


At the current performance leves, it'd be more like 50 servers for 200 ship battles if some more major features are implemented.

It is alot when its only run on one server, multiple planets/moons, many space stations, 3 large cities, hundreds of AI, the server currently has to do it all.

They are using amazon servers so they dont need to worry about server upkeep or how many servers they need, currently they are using a capacity of 20000 and can get more if needed. They are going to be using a system similar to dual universe where it increases the amount of servers in an area depending on how many players are there, and servers will only be active where there is a player so servers are not being wasted becuase no players are around.

snip

thats not how it works, you judge a game on both the current version if in a development stage and what its supposed to have at release, if you dont do that then your just picking and choosing what you consider relevant to suit your own agenda.

When you buy a game you buy it for the features it will have on its release and not a development version of the game.

The game is in development, you cant just say its a shit MMO just because parts of the game have not even been implemented that are key in making it the MMO its designed to be, thats like saying FF7 remake is shit because i cant play the full story just because the rest of the game isnt finished yet.

[Kyanion]

It is alot when its only run on one server, multiple planets/moons, many space stations, 3 large cities, hundreds of AI, the server currently has to do it all.

Are we supposed to feel bad for CIG? I guess we better give them more money to mismanage and waste. How many millions have they gotten so far? 330 or something?

[MrAnderson]

I'd say that Space Engineers' large ship battles give SC a run for their money. At least the battles don't take place beyond visual range, and the damage inflicted actually affects the geometry of the hull in ways that SC's don't.

Ship battles can take place at close or long visual range depending on how ship's are flown and their geometry affected by damage, you can blow off engines, wings, turrets etc



But indeed Space Engeniers space battles are quite fun, and interestingly enough, in that game players also consider 40 Ship fleet battles Massive:

Whataboutisms don't help you. We're talking about SC. The game that CAN NOT have more than 40 people playing it so you cannot have a battle with more than 40 solo piloted ships. If people are in the same ship together, guess what happens, even less ships in the fight. Zzzz.

Help me? Help yourself. You're the one desperately grasping at straws because gamers are having fun blowing space ships while you're out there shouting like a grudge-bearing old fart who can't stand watching others have fun.

Sad, either way, ship phew phew and explosions boom boom will continue to improve as they improve and iterate the gameplay.

[Kyanion]

Help me? Help yourself. You're the one desperately grasping at straws because gamers are having fun blowing space ships while you're out there shouting like a grudge-bearing old fart who can't stand watching others have fun.

Again, what is the server cap? What is the most amount of ships you can have fighting at once? 40. Woo. Too bad it wasn't more but the servers would melt. Ah well. Maybe in 2024.

Of course you go back to the old playbook of insulting people because you have nothing else to say.

[MrAnderson]

Again, what is the server cap? What is the most amount of ships you can have fighting at once? 40. Woo. Too bad it wasn't more but the servers would melt. Ah well. Maybe in 2024.

Of course you go back to the old playbook of insulting people because you have nothing else to say.

And none of those prevent these massive space battles of being fun for players or an impressive achievement.

[bloodwulf]

And none of those prevent these massive space battles of being fun for players or an impressive achievement.

Explain to me what was impressive about that clip. It appears to me to be 1 min 18 secs of one ship getting shot from another ship that is nearly beyond visual range. Then the targeted whale turns to face its aggressor while explosions are happening in seemingly random locations. The ship just floats there for a few seconds, appears to fire at a different target for a few seconds, then explodes in a JJ Abrams lensflare extravaganza? All the while in the same swampy looking cloud as the other clips.

For disclosure, i don't participate in the back and forth arguments that is Kenn\MrAnderson vs Everyone else in this thread. I am not picking sides or anything, i just want to know what i was supposed to be impressed by in that video. It looked to me as one ship was clumsily trying to face its target, then just sat there and took it. Was that npc pilots with bad ai or just a player who had no idea what they were doing?