[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Elim Garak]

These People can get a Refund. Wheres the problem in that?

The problem is that they cannot get a refund

Its not a Scam. They are building the game. It would be a Scam if they would not intend to deliver a product.

And I'm building a monorail in your town. Wanna invest?

Its still not a Scam, you can cry that however you want.

That's the problem with scams - the scammed don't see it and defend it against those who have seen it for what it is.
Wanna buy some Herbalife?

So, you admit they released something playable which is fun? And still claim its a Scam. Interesting.

They haven't released anything. But what they have is good for an Alpha. good being a relative term, not that it's fun but compared to other alphas it's in "better" state. Because it was 8 years man. 8 fucking years. Most other alphas are 2 years old like SC was in 2015. So it compares BETTER to them. Nothing more.

Yes, I do.
I tell them Specificly, and stress that the game is in Alpha, its very Unfinished, and its more likely that if they try to play the game for 4 Hours, it just might not work at all.
And I also tell them that the game is a very very very long time away from release, and everything they see/hear/think is subject to change, and in no way or form a gurantee. Also I tell them not to spend more than 50$, or 75$ if they also are interested in a possible Singleplayer game, because thats more than enough.

So you specifically don't tell them that the game was in alpha for what? 6 years now? You basically beautify the ugly truth.

I tell the what they can do RIGHT NOW, in the game is worth the 45$ in my Opinion. And we have alot of fun the times we play together. And thats not factoring in the time I´ve spend over the years watching the videos where they explain and show of the tools they use. Because thats actually interesting.

And their suspension of disbelief will be quite high since it's just the alpha.
Nice manipulation skills!

[kenn9530]

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Logic is all you need to work out a game is going to take longer if you add more things to it, they have stated no timeframe on in being completed as it will be finished when its finished, if you cant even work out adding more things to a game makes it take longer to develop then noone can help you understand, its around the 8th year of development so im backed up in estimating the game to take around 10 years for both versions to be completed.

[Henako]

Logic is all you need to work out a game is going to take longer if you add more things to it, they have stated no timeframe on in being completed as it will be finished when its finished, if you cant even work out adding more things to a game makes it take longer to develop then noone can help you understand, its around the 8th year of development so im backed up in estimating the game to take around 10 years for both versions to be completed.

He's not arguing your base claim. He just wants you to support your figures with evidence.

[Kyanion]

Logic is all you need to work out a game is going to take longer if you add more things to it, they have stated no timeframe on in being completed as it will be finished when its finished, if you cant even work out adding more things to a game makes it take longer to develop then noone can help you understand, its around the 8th year of development so im backed up in estimating the game to take around 10 years for both versions to be completed.

Dude what is this? I want you to provide claims that people in charge of this project have said it will take 10 years. That is all. I don't CARE about your opinion on how long it should or shouldn't take. You don't matter. Back up your bullshit claim you made. STOP talking like you work for that company and are their spokesman. You are not.

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He's not arguing your base claim. He just wants you to support your figures with evidence.

That sure would be nice.

[kenn9530]

He's not arguing your base claim. He just wants you to support your figures with evidence.

The evidence is in how long its taking to develop the game and my current claim that the game would be a 10 year project is backed up, the company has never stated when the game would be complete, its just simple logic if you increase the size of a game by at least double then it would take double the origional time to develop.

Dude what is this? I want you to provide claims that people in charge of this project have said it will take 10 years. That is all. I don't CARE about your opinion on how long it should or shouldn't take. You don't matter. Back up your bullshit claim you made. STOP talking like you work for that company and are their spokesman. You are not.

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That sure would be nice.

I never once stated the company said anything about the development timeframe, CiG has never once stated how long it will take to develop, all they say is it will be ready when its ready.

My claim it should take around 10 years is backed up by facts that is has taken 8 years so far and the game was more than doubled in size so it has more that twice the amount needing developed, so im correct in my estimate on how long the game should take to develop.

[Afrospinach]

The evidence is in how long its taking to develop the game and my current claim that the game would be a 10 year project is backed up, the company has never stated when the game would be complete, its just simple logic if you increase the size of a game by at least double then it would take double the origional time to develop.

Trouble is when you create interdependent systems problems tend to be exponential which is why people resent feature creep in these kinds of projects.

[Henako]

The evidence is in how long its taking to develop the game and my current claim that the game would be a 10 year project is backed up, the company has never stated when the game would be complete, its just simple logic if you increase the size of a game by at least double then it would take double the origional time to develop.

All he wants is evidence. A link to a quote. A timestamped video. An article or an interview. Evidence. What you've done here, again, is just say things. He doesn't want you to just say things. He wants you to support the things you're saying with evidence so that the things you're saying have something but air behind them.

[kenn9530]

All he wants is evidence. A link to a quote. A timestamped video. An article or an interview. Evidence. What you've done here, again, is just say things. He doesn't want you to just say things. He wants you to support the things you're saying with evidence so that the things you're saying have something but air behind them.

I never once said anything about CiG stating that the game was going to take 10 years, with all the available information however anyone with any reasonable amount of logic could estimate is was going to take 8 years or longer due to how much more was being added over the years and them having to build up a company from scratch.

If a game needs 10 years to be developed it needs that time plain and simple.

[Kyanion]

When you say shit like this:

But you dont care about SC releasing anyway so it doesnt matter how long it takes, when the game was changed and evolved into the MMO it is being developed into now it was a 10 year project, there was too much work and not enough staff to begin with to do it in a faster timeframe.

It makes it look like you have some sort of you know, evidence backing this shit up. Instead it was just you making shit up. Do not try and make it sound like you are spouting facts when it is just your opinion. That is fucked up man.

The evidence is in how long its taking to develop the game and my current claim that the game would be a 10 year project is backed up, the company has never stated when the game would be complete, its just simple logic if you increase the size of a game by at least double then it would take double the origional time to develop.

I just guess those release dates they provided in the past were bullshit to keep people funneling money in. Nice. And again, you don't know what DOUBLE means, you are just making shit up and trying to promote your opinion as the truth. It isn't.

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I never once stated the company said anything about the development timeframe, CiG has never once stated how long it will take to develop, all they say is it will be ready when its ready.

Holy hell man, are you just being this way on purpose? How many times do people need to link you to sources where they have dates on when it will be released.

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My claim it should take around 10 years is backed up by facts that is has taken 8 years so far and the game was more than doubled in size so it has more that twice the amount needing developed, so im correct in my estimate on how long the game should take to develop.

There are no facts in what you are saying, just made up things and opinion. If it is a FACT the game would take 10 years it would have a fucking deadline and a release date. Again, you do NOT know what double means. You are just throwing it in a buzzword to sound like you have some knowledge here.

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All he wants is evidence. A link to a quote. A timestamped video. An article or an interview. Evidence. What you've done here, again, is just say things. He doesn't want you to just say things. He wants you to support the things you're saying with evidence so that the things you're saying have something but air behind them.

Turns out he was just making shit up. What a shock.

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I never once said anything about CiG stating that the game was going to take 10 years, with all the available information however anyone with any reasonable amount of logic could estimate is was going to take 8 years or longer due to how much more was being added over the years and them having to build up a company from scratch.

If a game needs 10 years to be developed it needs that time plain and simple.

So you didn't say "when the game was changed and evolved into the MMO it is being developed into now it was a 10 year project" Because look at the top of my post, and there is your quote, plain as day. Turns out it is just you spouting opinion and trying to make it SOUND like facts.

[kenn9530]

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Simple fact is we are at year 8 of development so saying it is around a 10 year project is actually true no matter what you try and believe. So as usual your the one making things up because you have bias against a company for some reason.

Anything a company says or publishes during development is always subject to change, there is no hard dates ever been inplace for any sort of releases and even if they did, they have the right to change things as required. Chris has always been saying he will not release something unless he is happy with it, chris has a well known rep when he in charge of developing a game so it would be your own fault if you backed a project without doing the research first.

You obviously dont know what double means, increasing the star systems from 40 to around 110 is more than double, increasing the amount of flyable ships by ten times is more than double, adding in 100s of fully explorable planets to walk around on it way more than double, just those few things there is more than adding double the work required, only a complete idiot would not be able to accept a ton of extra work was added. You do know landing on planets wherever you wanted was not in the kickstarter.

[Kyanion]

Simple fact is we are at year 8 of development so saying it is around a 10 year project is actually true no matter what you try and believe. So as usual your the one making things up because you have bias against a company for some reason.

*sigh* Good god man, just stop it already. First of all, the chances of that project being complete in 2 years is fucking laughable. 2nd, it isn't 10 years yet so it isn't true there either. What if it released next year, year 9. Is it a 10 year project then? Uh gee let's see....7, 8...9? Nope that isn't 10. Hmm. Weird.

Dude you are the king of opinions trying to be spun as facts, it is fucking embarrassing.

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Anything a company says or publishes during development is always subject to change, there is no hard dates ever been inplace for any sort of releases and even if they did, they have the right to change things as required. Chris has always been saying he will not release something unless he is happy with it, chris has a well known rep when he in charge of developing a game so it would be your own fault if you backed a project without doing the research first.

Chris is also heading a project that is one of the largest money pits of development in the modern era of gaming. It really is a technological marvel isn't it? Weird, they can release dates and it is okay when they miss them because he has free reign. That's cool, it looks fucking terrible and makes the game more of a joke than it already is.

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You obviously dont know what double means, increasing the star systems from 40 to around 110 is more than double, increasing the amount of flyable ships by ten times is more than double, adding in 100s of fully explorable planets to walk around on it way more than double, just those few things there is more than adding double the work required, only a complete idiot would not be able to accept a ton of extra work was added. You do know landing on planets wherever you wanted was not in the kickstarter.

I'm not the one trying to put opinions as facts, sir. I can't take what you say with any sort of truth to it because you've gone out of your way to lie and try and present your opinions as fact. Who knows if you're making shit up or not there. Regardless, if the game was due in 2014 from the Kickstarter and they 'doubled' the amount of work, so umm wouldn't it have been out by now? No? Oh maybe the date was 2015. Wait still missing it. Huh. Just what year is this thing coming out? You are claiming 10 years and claim it is year 8 (I mean it is 9+ but hey whatever). So by 2023 this game will be complete? Your words right? 2 years? We talking Feb 2023? Sweet, I'm sure people can't wait, you might want to put out a press release.

[kenn9530]

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I didnt say exact 10 years i just said around so that gives a few years either way of give and take. The project takes as long as it takes to be completed.

The only joke is your opinions because you dont even base it from your own experience of even testing the game, you know nothing or understand anything about star citizen.

kickstarter was the end of 2012 and we are at the start of 2021.

[1001]

2 million goal was 40 star systems, 6 million goal stretched to 100, over the years 10 times as many ships have been introduced or are in the cards with even more ships like the vanduul ones only for the SQ42 campaign atm, fully explorable planets instead of just landing zones increases the size of the game even further, the game has evolved from a mostly space only game to cover pretty much everything.

They jumped to 100 systems just a couple of weeks after the KS started, a time where they knew having a huge studio with hundreds of staff was not the intention. So they must have felt it was feasible or they were just chucking anything out there to get more money.

The ships have only been added because they are what keeps CIG afloat.

The one big thing I'll give a nod to is the planetary change but the wisdom of this change was already suspect. They were struggling to make hero zones so why jump to making things even more time involving and expensive? I believe it was only done so they could stay relevant, other new space games like NMS and Elite were producing fully explorable planets and so having space elevators with glass walls everywhere in the BDSSE would look archaic by comparison.

[Kyanion]

I didnt say exact 10 years i just said around so that gives a few years either way of give and take. The project takes as long as it takes to be completed.

Oh brother, those goalposts have moved so far they have left the field of play. It doesn't matter, it is just your opinion vs their stated dates and roadmaps, but hey whatever. I'm done wasting my time on this one. You've shown you have no facts at all.

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The only joke is your opinions because you dont even base it from your own experience of even testing the game, you know nothing or understand anything about star citizen.

What is there to test? It isn't a MMO. 40 player server cap does not a MMO make. I'd never want to do something like that. I don't have to 'test' the game to know it is a pile of shit. I understand more about SC than you seem to. 9+ years, 300+ million dollars. No released game.

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kickstarter was the end of 2012 and we are at the start of 2021.

So you're going on the day the kickstarter happened and not the pre-production that was in 2010 or the production starting in 2011 in order to build a prototype to try and get funding. Or this article that talks about the game being in development for 12 months as of Oct 2012. So sure by YOUR opinion the game has been in development since Oct 2012, but that isn't the reality.

[Antipathy1018]

@1001, @Kyanion, Both of you should know from 100 to 200 pages ago that engaging with Mr. Ando, and especially Kenn given his 15 odd page screed about how deadlines don't exist and the last 10 or so pages of him directly claiming the same thing just with a slightly different angle, this time being a combo of "it's ready when it's ready", and "When Chris Roberts says its ready". Sorry for the run-on sentence, but hell you saw how Mr. Ando said I don't like space games with no evidence, and if he looked at my post history he would see that I can't play 90% of any games for almost 5 years now due to having only 1 functional hand (my right works, dominate thankfully, but my left is nonfunctional).

I know I only pop up so often to post, but again my post history shows that I have other things to take care of like my house that I own outright, ie. no mortgage, among other life b/s.

I have only posted stuff in this thread about what CiG claims and ask people what they think, and went so far in my last post to discount Mr. Ando/Only Posts in This Thread, and Kenn/Mr. I spent 10+ grand Mr. Concierge, because everyone else even @Val the Moofia Boss, who I respect as a person who likes and/or loves the game but can admit its faults and strengths honestly, will give at most slight to moderately biased critique which is what I want. Hell Val even pointed out half or so of the Roadmap I pointed out was meaningless or minor, though I do think he missed the overall point I was making about deadlines, but even then he gave a fair shake with no insults or logical flaws. Reading the other 2 fall back to shit that everyone was shown as bullcrap from early last year is amusing, but also kinda sad after almost 6 years.

Guess I am trying to say don't go in to hard on stuff you can just relink if needed, to be honest I am starting to feel sorry for them after almost 6 years of watching this thread.

[Kyanion]

Guess I am trying to say don't go in to hard on stuff you can just relink if needed, to be honest I am starting to feel sorry for them after almost 6 years of watching this thread.

I wonder what the agenda really is. It is simple sunk cost fallacy? Is it paid workers trying to dispel negativity? Is it just ardent defenders that can see no flaw in this game? Could be none of those, who really knows. It is funny to watch them dance and distract when the sad truths of this game are out there plain as day. The game has been given so much money and really isn't close to releasing after this many years, that is the sad truth of Star Citizen.

[Henako]

I wonder what the agenda really is. It is simple sunk cost fallacy? Is it paid workers trying to dispel negativity? Is it just ardent defenders that can see no flaw in this game? Could be none of those, who really knows. It is funny to watch them dance and distract when the sad truths of this game are out there plain as day. The game has been given so much money and really isn't close to releasing after this many years, that is the sad truth of Star Citizen.

Mr. Andy I can't figure out, but I'm more and more convinced that Kenn is something like a CleverBot that responds with variations on things he's said before, just copy / pasted from a notepad somewhere.

[kenn9530]

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What relevance is there to how many players can play on one server, there is still a game to test with more than plenty to do in it, you keep talking BS about things that are not even an issue, if you have not played the game your opinion is just BS and means nothing since you dont understand anything at all about the game.

Development doesnt really start on a game until they have the money and staff to develop it, if you want to add in pre production time then every single game could add at least a year onto development.

[Kyanion]

What relevance is there to how many players can play on one server, there is still a game to test with more than plenty to do in it, you keep talking BS about things that are not even an issue, if you have not played the game your opinion is just BS and means nothing since you dont understand anything at all about the game.

I'm beginning to believe Henako's theory about a copy/pasted notepad response. I have no desire to play a MMO with a 40 person server cap. Period. I don't care WHAT mmo it is in what genre, that is a dealbreaker. SC is a MMO with a very lower player cap, that is a fact and has been a fact for a long time now. The server cap was REDUCED from 50 to 40. That is pathetic.

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Development doesnt really start on a game until they have the money and staff to develop it, if you want to add in pre production time then every single game could add at least a year onto development.

Then you should have a dialogue about this with Mr. Anderson who was pointing out Guinness Records when it comes to Elite. 8 years, 9 years, 10 years, either way it is a big joke.

[Henako]

What relevance is there to how many players can play on one server, there is still a game to test with more than plenty to do in it, you keep talking BS about things that are not even an issue, if you have not played the game your opinion is just BS and means nothing since you dont understand anything at all about the game.

I'm really bothered that you keep saying things like this. It's absolutely a huge issue. The game will never come to fruition if this isn't solved, and it shows no sign of actually being solved. They say they have tech on the way, but they also said they had the tech working two years ago. Where are we now?