1. #12021
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    SWTOR had a full studio to begin with, and it is less work to complete an engine that is actually the target type of game instead of making an engine work for a game it was not origionally intended for, there has been no official release dates any dates even mentioned in a game in heavy development can be changed, both the games are connected so everything must work the same for the MMO part as the single player, when planet tech came in then SQ42 would have to be changed also.



    Any engine will require a ton of work and can be modified to suit the games requirements, hero engine never quite worked great for SWTOR it just worked to a reasonable level eventually.

    Picking any engine has its own risks and challenges and making an engine from scratch also has risks.
    Swtor had a full studio bla bla, its been 9 years 9 and cig has nothing at all. Delaying every patch.

    So you saying Chris Roberts doesn't know what engine is best for the game?
    Are you better than Chris Roberts in gaming business?

    Cryengine was perfect for SQ42.
    Crysis games are perfect.
    Noone needed multiplayer for SQ42. Usage of same jpegs is not an excuse. They never needed to update the engine to make SQ42.

    Soon 2016 was an official date. CIG lied about that date. I won't talk about 2019 disaster now.

  2. #12022
    Quote Originally Posted by Littlechamp View Post
    This proves 5 years is enough time to build something from scratch, enough time to modify and configure something.
    Swtor was pretty stable and complete on release.
    Excuse me what? Stable and complete? Memory leak crashes, combat action delays, constant loading screen sometimes even when simply initiating dialogue to hide all that memory glitching and myriad of other well recorded bullshitteries plagued SWTOR well into the second year after launch. That game knew no stability at all for good half a year after it's initial release. Did you actually play it on launch, or on the F2P launch?
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  3. #12023
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    Excuse me what? Stable and complete? Memory leak crashes, combat action delays, constant loading screen sometimes even when simply initiating dialogue to hide all that memory glitching and myriad of other well recorded bullshitteries plagued SWTOR well into the second year after launch. That game knew no stability at all for good half a year after it's initial release. Did you actually play it on launch, or on the F2P launch?
    it's strange, I got none of those problems you talk about and I played both the swtor beta & from early launch

  4. #12024
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    More like "more than half of those ships aren't even in the game yet".

    There was an infographic from a year ago, I think, that showed all of the ships that were promised, and which ones were actually flyable in the game. It was like 1/3rd of the total ships promised were actually in the game. And even then, about half of them are actually functionally. Sure, you can fly your Reclaimer around, but it's a useless piece of junk because it's a salvaging ship... but salvage gameplay hasn't even bee designed yet (as admitted by CIG devs in a video about 6 months ago).
    That is just sad. Even the scummiest F2P games at least have the cash shop be stuff you can use right now, rather you basically paying for a promise that you'll be able to use the thing at some indeterminate point in the future somehow.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  5. #12025
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeenith View Post
    it's strange, I got none of those problems you talk about and I played both the swtor beta & from early launch
    Well that is funny because you'll only have to type swtor memory leak and there'll be hundreds of posts immediatly about the matter from the launch era and following years. Same goes with articles and matters regarding the loading screen issues. Perhaps you are just one of the extremely lucky ones to avoid widespread issues.

    The whole reason why Hero Engine got so horribly stigmatized and shat upon was because how horribly it performed for SWTOR. Hell, even Hero Engine creator company distanced itself from SWTOR saying it's Bioware's version of some incredibly early alpha and not representative of their product because of the hot mess it was.
    Last edited by Wilian; 2021-04-05 at 03:39 PM.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  6. #12026
    I find it kinda fascinating that the same excuses from several years ago are somehow still relevant in 2021.

    There really is no real defence for this colossal shitshow. I pity the people that continue to bend over for CIG on this forum.

  7. #12027
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    Excuse me what? Stable and complete? Memory leak crashes, combat action delays, constant loading screen sometimes even when simply initiating dialogue to hide all that memory glitching and myriad of other well recorded bullshitteries plagued SWTOR well into the second year after launch. That game knew no stability at all for good half a year after it's initial release. Did you actually play it on launch, or on the F2P launch?
    I played on Tott Donetta server. Prolly first to hit level 50 on server or maybe 2nd.
    I played until legacy system released. Got full champion gear. Did all instances. Completed class stories for 3 classes. Raided all instances and collected all datacrons.

    I remember memory leak and loading screen problems but none of them were game breaking. Yes, it was pretty stable for a new game. I had played WoW on release too and it was way worse. My only complaint for game would be having too many servers on release which effected the server population.

  8. #12028
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    Well that is funny because you'll only have to type swtor memory leak and there'll be hundreds of posts immediatly about the matter from the launch era and following years. Same goes with articles and matters regarding the loading screen issues. Perhaps you are just one of the extremely lucky ones to avoid widespread issues.

    The whole reason why Hero Engine got so horribly stigmatized and shat upon was because how horribly it performed for SWTOR. Hell, even Hero Engine creator company distanced itself from SWTOR saying it's Bioware's version of some incredibly early alpha and not representative of their product because of the hot mess it was.
    yeah, hundred of posts, millions of players... not even 0.01% statistics there, you sure showed us how important the problem was!!

  9. #12029
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    I find it kinda fascinating that the same excuses from several years ago are somehow still relevant in 2021.

    There really is no real defence for this colossal shitshow. I pity the people that continue to bend over for CIG on this forum.
    i know right. I wonder when they will stop using the 'they had to build a new studio' excuse.
    Its been 9 years of 'they had to build a new studio'.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  10. #12030
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    i know right. I wonder when they will stop using the 'they had to build a new studio' excuse.
    Its been 9 years of 'they had to build a new studio'.
    Kenn and Ando (if he starts posting again) have used every excuse for SC that they could and beyond.

    So in short yes they will recycle stuff already proven false regardless of being proven wrong, even if it is by Chris Roberts saying it is untrue.

  11. #12031
    Quote Originally Posted by Antipathy1018 View Post
    Kenn and Ando (if he starts posting again) have used every excuse for SC that they could and beyond.

    So in short yes they will recycle stuff already proven false regardless of being proven wrong, even if it is by Chris Roberts saying it is untrue.
    What have we been proven wrong about, did CiG have to build a company from scratch and take 5 years to get a reasonable staff level, did the whole game completely change just after the kickstarter, it seems you lack the understanding of proving someone wrong is very limited.

    Its not hard to understand if more things get added to a game it takes longer to develop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    i know right. I wonder when they will stop using the 'they had to build a new studio' excuse.
    Its been 9 years of 'they had to build a new studio'.
    If a company with thousands of staff takes 8-9 years to develop a sandbox game, why do you beleive it should take less time to develop a space MMO with 1/3 of the staff to develop it.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2021-04-06 at 01:28 AM.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  12. #12032
    Sunk Cost fallacy. The thread.

  13. #12033
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Hm... seems like there are only two things that are interesting in the new patch.

    • Larger caves that can fly your ship into. They will also have bounty missions where you go to the cave to do FPS combat to kill bounty targets. 30k UEC is pretty good, more worth the effort to slog through the horribly buggy FPS combat than the 8k bunker missions on Hurston (reminder: netcode issues where the NPCs are shooting you through walls and kill you before said NPC had even stepped out of cover and become visible on your screen, also time to kill is too bloody short, so combined with the netcode issue, you can be on your a-game and still randomly die for reasons completely out of your control.) I will check out the cave bounty missions for sure, but if it's just going to be a repeat of the awful bunker experience, then I won't be farming them.
    • Pickpocketing other players is an unexpected feature and sounds really cool. Would be cool if you could pickpocket weapons too. But I don't think that the crime system is ready for this. Right now, if you commit a crime in front of a guard, you don't get crime stat because the guard saw you do it and reported you. You got crime stat simply for doing it in the area. So with the current system, if you were to be very careful and pickpocket a guy with no cameras or other NPCs watching you, you would still get crime stat, which is bullocks. At the same time, you would also have the problem where maybe you're okay with a friend taking stuff off you, like a spare gun (because trying to give people stuff right now is an extremely laborious process, as you have to wait for your mobiglass to open, wait for your inventory screen to load, click too dozen times... etc. Takes a bloody minute just to give someone a spare gun), but that person would be automatically punished because it'd be considered pickpocketing. Would be nice if you got a pop-up telling you "your friend/party member pickpocketed you. Press 'N' to press charges, press 'L' to decline."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Another problem with pickpocketing is that the levels aren't really designed to support this sandbox RPGy gameplay like Skyrim or Kingdom Come Deliverance. If you go to a station or go to city on a planet or an outpost on the moon, the level/environment design of the places are extremely simplistic. There aren't places to hide out of line of sight, or vents you can crawl through, or alternate routes to flee from guards, etc. And ground NPC AI hasn't been updated since 2017 and is still broken, so you still have NPCs T-posing in chairs and walking in place. Those NPCs can't be manipulated by throwing glass to distract their attention so you can commit a crime or get into a restricted area. The NPCs in SC are pretty static.

    The most depth you would have for pickpocketing would be just waiting for an NPC to turn their back, and that would be it. And, again, you'd still get crime-stat for the aforementioned reasons. And if you get crime-stat in a city, you're dead because armistice zones are still a thing, meaning you can't draw your gun in cities/stations/outposts, so you can't shoot back at the guards who are coming to kill you.

    I suspect that pick-pocketing would only be really useful for if you are in a combat situation and you killed just a guy and want to quickly loot his medipens or his ammo clips.
    Last edited by Val the Moofia Boss; 2021-04-06 at 03:09 AM.

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  14. #12034
    another patch of adding some stuff with half that don't work and the other half being either useless or incomplete? what a happy life those dev must have to never be fire for such competence!

    small indy company and all that lol

  15. #12035
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post


    If a company with thousands of staff takes 8-9 years to develop a sandbox game, why do you beleive it should take less time to develop a space MMO with 1/3 of the staff to develop it.
    Its not us thinking that way. Its Chris Roberts and his band thought they could develop in shorter time with less staff and when they saw they can't, they started telling lies.
    That's how bad their management is. This is why people should stop paying to this game.
    They wouldn't lie if they had honor. Soon 2016, right.

  16. #12036
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    If a company with thousands of staff takes 8-9 years to develop a sandbox game, why do you beleive it should take less time to develop a space MMO with 1/3 of the staff to develop it.
    But once again, staffing is their problem. Not the customers'.

    If you're selling a car to someone and they complain ten years later that it's still nowhere to be done, the answer "Yeah but I'm building alone DUDE" will not be valid. Nor will "But look at the other companies !!!!" be.

    They've raised the Kickstarter to build their project on. Which means they should have assessed the realisticness (? Is there a word for that ?) of their project at the very beginning, by checking how many staff they'd need to complete it in X years. That's, like, the very basics of any project management...
    At some point you should realize that most of their failures are their own fault. They shouldn't have sold something they knew they were unable to pull out.

    Every time you're selling that Roberts as some kind of genius, I'm pretty sure he knew from Day 0 his project was impossible to pull out (and it shows).

  17. #12037
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Every time you're selling that Roberts as some kind of genius, I'm pretty sure he knew from Day 0 his project was impossible to pull out (and it shows).
    I mean, he is a genius, he got half a billion dollars without even delivering a product.

    That's a legendary feat that will be written in gaming history regardless of how it ends up. The guy should be EA CEO after this - imagine EA with all their silly "live service" and "early access" - he got them beat.

    And yeah, I mean, what interest he has in even releasing the game? Seems to be doing great as is.

  18. #12038
    Quote Originally Posted by Littlechamp View Post
    Its not us thinking that way. Its Chris Roberts and his band thought they could develop in shorter time with less staff and when they saw they can't, they started telling lies.
    That's how bad their management is. This is why people should stop paying to this game.
    They wouldn't lie if they had honor. Soon 2016, right.
    The original 2012 pitch of SC/SQ42 would've been easily doable in 4 years. And that's the problem I have with SC/SQ42. Not that it's delayed and won't be releasing in years (if not MAYBE SQ42 at some point in next 2-3 years), but the fact that they are not making the 2012 pitched game I originally backed anymore. The Freelancer meets Wing Commander space flying sim, where you have your single player campaign, which then continues to "persistent universe" multiplayer, where you can either join their own (small servers) or you can play with friends on your own hosted persistent universe server. That was what I wanted. Now the concept is free-for-all sandbox MMO with hoverbikes and tanks. Uuuf. No thanks. I'm still interested to see how SQ42 turns out, but lost all interest in the "end product" of Star Citizen, whenever that potentially would happen.

  19. #12039
    Quote Originally Posted by Littlechamp View Post
    Its not us thinking that way. Its Chris Roberts and his band thought they could develop in shorter time with less staff and when they saw they can't, they started telling lies.
    That's how bad their management is. This is why people should stop paying to this game.
    They wouldn't lie if they had honor. Soon 2016, right.
    They didnt even mention a release date on the SQ42 or the PU, the only thing that may of happened was a small section of SQ42 to be available in 2016, it was never going to be fully released so your just talking BS, its up to the company if they want to wait until its complete or not and can change thier mind about anything if it doesnt hit the required quality.

    2016 is around when planet tech was coming along so SQ42 was going to be completely changed so the missions could include planet gameplay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    But once again, staffing is their problem. Not the customers'.

    If you're selling a car to someone and they complain ten years later that it's still nowhere to be done, the answer "Yeah but I'm building alone DUDE" will not be valid. Nor will "But look at the other companies !!!!" be.

    They've raised the Kickstarter to build their project on. Which means they should have assessed the realisticness (? Is there a word for that ?) of their project at the very beginning, by checking how many staff they'd need to complete it in X years. That's, like, the very basics of any project management...
    At some point you should realize that most of their failures are their own fault. They shouldn't have sold something they knew they were unable to pull out.

    Every time you're selling that Roberts as some kind of genius, I'm pretty sure he knew from Day 0 his project was impossible to pull out (and it shows).
    CiG are constantly recruiting, its taken a ton of time for companies like rockstar and such to have built up to the level they are now, Chris had game A which would of been freelancer 2.0 but he wanted to make game B depending if it was possible or not and money came flying in so chris went all out for the game he really wanted to make, its his choice and was backed by a large amount of the playerbase.

    They are proving they can do it, there is only so much the current team can work on at a time and what they have done is coming along very nicely, i would rather wait as long as it takes to get a good space game with depth rather than something that will be finished with as fast as a single player sandbox game.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2021-04-06 at 07:40 PM.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  20. #12040
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    They didnt even mention a release date on the SQ42 or the PU, the only thing that may of happened was a small section of SQ42 to be available in 2016, it was never going to be fully released so your just talking BS, its up to the company if they want to wait until its complete or not and can change thier mind about anything if it doesnt hit the required quality.

    2016 is around when planet tech was coming along so SQ42 was going to be completely changed so the missions could include planet gameplay.
    Except 2016 was the initial release date for the game. And in 2016 he said the game would be playable in mid-2017. In 2016 the game was "feature locked", too. Oh, and an early 2020 beta which appears nowhere in site still.

    https://www.pcgamesn.com/star-citize...2-release-date
    https://screenrant.com/squadron-42-wont-beta-mid-2020/

    We literally have CIG sites and spokespeople saying these things and you're calling them lies. This is, at best, gaslighting. Don't do that.

    This is why CIG shut the hell up about dates, because people kept like, holding them to the dates they said and getting upset when those dates were missed by years. CIG now just takes the Blizzard approach after years of giving and missing delivery dates on features or finished products.

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