[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Val the Moofia Boss]

does it really matter how long it takes if a decent one of a kind game comes out of it at the end?

I think Star Citizen right now is a one of a kind game. It's just that there it's plagued by many problems that detract from the gameplay experience, and there just ultimately isn't that much to do. Currently the biggest problem IMO is that you derive the most fun from interacting with other players, but the star system is too big and the servers are too small so you almost never run into other people. Bounty hunters are almost never chasing criminals. You don't have mercenary players being hired to protect miners or traders. You don't have huge battles where beacons are going out calling more players to join the fray. Etc. Right now Star Citizen feels like a subpar singleplayer game, which it should not be. Star Citizen should be an MMO. Squadron 42 should be the good singleplayer experience, but who knows when it will come out.

are simply waiting for it to get made

My biggest fear is that the servers won't get fixed and we won't ever get SQ42. We've been told over and over that in order for more players and more stuff to be added to the game, they need server meshing. They said in early 2019 they had a working prototype of server meshing... and then never talked about it again, which makes me fear that they know they can't fix the servers but aren't saying it because saying it would kill sales. And ofcourse, they keep stringing us along about SQ42's development, which to me tells me that there is no SQ42 outside of the cutscenes we saw in trailers and a few demo levels Chris showed off at Citizencon to placate the backers.

basically we all backed this game because we liked what we saw and knew it was a game we wanted to play, no amount of 'its taking too long' is going to create a sudden epiphany and cause everyone to go get refunds even if we wanted refunds they don't do them afaik, or the time for that is long gone, we're in it until its finished.

I'm not going to get a refund. I got several hundred hours of fun out of Star Citizen. I'm just really disappointed that we're coming up on a decade and I haven't gotten the singleplayer game I backed for.

[Kyanion]

does it really matter how long it takes if a decent one of a kind game comes out of it at the end? I think most ppl are either shitting on this game because they have nothing better to do, or are simply waiting for it to get made. so you have ppl with no stake in this game, complaining about it, why? and then those who are waiting for it, continually trying to defend the reason why they backed it.

its pretty simple, is anyone else making a game like star citizen? no? then who really cares honestly about your personal gripe with how long its taking, even when you have no stake in it yourself. its not even like backers are complaining about it taking too long, its ppl who haven't backed it, you have no stake in it, why do you care? move on, play a game you enjoy. I've never seen so many ppl so concerned with something they aren't interested in, its trolling at this point. actually its been like that the whole way through this thread. ask yourself is what you're going to say, constructive, if not then don't say it.

And yet you come rolling in as if you're a mod telling people how we can or can't post. Classy. I was going to write out a response to this breaking down why it does matter that it is taking that long, but it doesn't matter. You don't care, you just wanted to attack people that are critical of the game.

[Heathy]

no just sick of the back and forth whining from ppl who don't even have the game, struck a nerve did I? good. op success.

no amount of critical whining is going to make the game come out any faster, the sooner ppl learn this the better. its going to take as long as it takes, regardless of how much complaining there is. for the most part you're just wasting your breath. on something that will amount to nothing.

yes we all want to play a completed version of star citizen, no repeating the same nonsense over and over again isn't going to change anything. the game will still take as long as it takes. if it takes another 5 years 10 years 15 years, however long it takes, are you prepared to keep this up for that long? how much time do plan on maintaining the vendetta? because I assure you, that your time will not be spent in a constructive way. upto the point where the game is actually playable, and you end up buying it anyway. its not playable enough for you now? ok thats fine, I'm not playing it either. but either you're going to complain about the game right up to the point that it releases and still not buy into it, or you are going to ultimately buy into it, whenever it is that it reaches a playable (for most ppl) state.

so either you are waiting for the time where you will ultimately buy the game or even when it is 'out' you still won't buy it, do you think all the time you spent complaining about a game you have no intention of buying was a worthwhile investment of time? for example you know, time you could spend doing something you do in fact enjoy. or is it that ppl simply enjoy shitting on things to make themselves feel better, it definitely feels like that could be the case here, or ppl just enjoy being contrarian for no real reason other than to be that way. you know the point at which you do decide to buy the game is obviously going to completely invalidate the hours upon hours you spent complaining about it. sit back, enjoy the ride buy the game or don't. you aren't going to convince anyone who bought the game of anything. either it becomes a great game or it doesn't and life goes on. its no where near as big of a deal as its made out to be. i'm pretty certain that, if star citizen doesn't do well, you won't see another game of this scope for a long long time. since no one else is going to take the risk (both gaming studios and ppl who backed this there won't be any faith for another go) if this doesn't do well. hope you like gaming staying the way it is with minimal or no innovation at all. if you enjoy gaming at all, you should be hoping this does well, if thats the case the future of gaming could be bright, with more games of similar scope. as gamers we want innovation. we want more of this to happen. betting against it is betting against a better future of gaming. or it is that we want another 20 years of call of duties because that would be disappointing. just more of the same. over and over again. VR isn't exactly doing that great, it still not accessible for most ppl, no VR game is trending on twitch so that boat isn't the saving grace of gaming. no matter how many ppl wish it was.

just trying to inject a bit of logical discussion here, obviously you must be somewhat interested in the game or you wouldn't have posted in this thread multiple times. do you really think its in your best interest to bet against it? are you simply waiting for the 'I told you so' day? what if that day never comes? do you think your time here would have been worthwhile? in the end i'd actually prefer to do ppl a favour and spare you time and effort. perhaps move the discussion past the 'I could have made star citizen in a weekend whats taking them so long' posts.

[Heathy]

yes regurgitated complaints. get regurgitated responses unfortunately. that is the way. what else do ppl expect, for me or anyone else to travel down to their offices and start a protest? not worth the time. feels bad for those who threw their wallets at this game, I personally didn't care at all about the single player portion of this game I didn't buy that. it might have been interesting if they kept it co-op but alas. for me i'm waiting for the actual multiplayer part of the game, since I don't really care much for single player games. I think its mainly because I hate being the singular driving force of a game where the 'game' revolves around you and nothing else is happening anywhere but only where you are. it always takes me out of the game. and there are loads of games like this already. sq42 doesn't at least to me, seem to be the interesting part of SC. I can't see it delivering the same level of dynamic that you get out of a multiplayer experience.

on the bright side I know that a lot of what they create for sq42 will in some way make it to the PU. so i don't feel as though they are wasting time making the single player portion of the game, since those assets can simply be used in the PU as well.

the mismanagement of this game is perhaps criminal, but at some point you have to move on, the development hasn't ceased so there is still hope that we'll both get a playable game one day. I backed this game a couple years ago, according to my oldest email from roberts it was may 2019, even back then you could tell that this game was going to take an absolute age to make and I set my expectation all the way back then. I knew that buying into this i could be waiting 10+ years for a completed game, I remember ppl saying that this game wouldn't even be finished by 2025. that was when there was more optimism. but I just accept that its a complex game, its going to take time to make.

if you want to make most types of games there is documentation out there on how to do it, if you want to make an RTS you can find information out there on how to do that, if you want to make a first person shooter, the same, you can find information about how other developers managed to do it. but for a game like star citizen, I accept that there is no defined blue print on how you go about creating something like this and it is a first. I can sympathise somewhat with the idea that this was always going to be more iterative than anything that came before it. and backing a game like this is simply saying 'yes I want to play this game' it is a gamble, you have no idea if it'll actually get made and no guarantee, its a leap of faith. any game i've bought in early access, I accept that I may not get to play a finished product. but ill back a game I want to play in the hopes that my money is the equivalent of saying 'yes make more of these types of games' or simply 'I support this idea'. to me that is enough. whether I get the game or not. if it spurs other developers into making similar games or trying to push innovation, then it was a success.

[Kyanion]

no just sick of the back and forth whining from ppl who don't even have the game, struck a nerve did I? good. op success.

You don't have to own the game or even have played the game to comment on the game. Don't like that? Too bad.

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no amount of critical whining is going to make the game come out any faster, the sooner ppl learn this the better. its going to take as long as it takes, regardless of how much complaining there is. for the most part you're just wasting your breath. on something that will amount to nothing.

Yet here you are wasting your breath on something that will amount to nothing as well. Irony.

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the mismanagement of this game is perhaps criminal, but at some point you have to move on, the development hasn't ceased so there is still hope that we'll both get a playable game one day.

That is like saying, "Oh I know they have wasted millions of dollars and years making this game, but maybe one day a game will come out of it. But while we wait let us attack people who aren't okay with this and defend more money being tossed into the pit and more years of waiting." That is crazy. I don't get why people keep tossing money and supporting a company that may be lying about SQ42 and server meshing.

[Edge-]

I don't get why people keep tossing money and supporting a company that may be lying about SQ42 and server meshing.

Because they want to and believe in the game, Chris Roberts, and the CIG team? Different stroke for different folk.

[Kyanion]

Because they want to and believe in the game, Chris Roberts, and the CIG team? Different stroke for different folk.

Okay cool, they are free to toss their money where they want. I may not get it but I'm not telling people to stop giving their money away, however the person I quoted is basically trying to run off people who don't support the game.

I'm not sure why people are so adamant about believing CR when he is on record lying many times over now. Where is SQ42? Why has it basically vanished. What happened to the supposed server meshing that was almost ready in 2019? Do these things REALLY exist besides the small bits here and there that were shown? Who knows, the transparency this company was supposed to operate under does not really exist anymore.

[Heathy]

what a reversal, so long as we're on the same page, buttercup. at least you know where you stand now. i mean, I support the game, I play other games, you don't find me in forum posts for games i have no interest in wasting my time complaining about said game. I don't care much about for example football, way too much money is spent on watching grown men kicking a bag of air around. I think its a waste of time and money not to mention fifa are probably one of the most corrupt as fuck institutions on the planet., but this is the only place you'd see me say this, i'm not in any football related forum shitting up place with constant repetitive whining, meanwhile congratulations for picking and choosing select lines to quote me on. its really great when ppl only have an argument over specific lines of what you said and proceed to quote you out of context, bravo. many ppl seem to be experts at this on this forum. i'd rather argue with a brick wall. i'd honestly rather read a thread like this that had a focus on the game rather than the same cyclical bit. the videos and other bits are great, the discussion on the game is great the derailing and borderline trolling has been the same for 100s of pages. its old and tired. every time you come to this thread there is an argument about how this game should have been released 10 years ago and you personally could have shat this game out in an afternoon. most of it is just disingenuous and i'd be amazed if any of you have even made a pong clone. its funny how a sunk cost fallacy can also apply to a prolonged vendetta. I guess you just gotta see it through at this point. i mean you've spent this much time on it already. personally i think i've posted in this thread like a handful of times. I never claimed that owners should have a monopoly on this, It was more of a question as to the why, would non-owners care that much. you made it a gate keeping issue. I was wondering purely about the motivation behind such a thing. which you know beyond the typical, its a scam bit, that doesn't seem to be enough to me to compel it. I guess some of us, even those with time to waste, simply have more time to waste. perhaps its that simple. I mean a gaming company with as much stake in it as RSI/CIG, if they are lying prove it, or its conjecture. do you know for sure this is all lies? seems like a basis for a class action no? chop chop.

at this point you've posted more about this game than I have and I do have a copy of it (I'm not even subscribed to the SC subreddit) . if it falls through I've lost £70, i'm not loaded, but i'm also not going to be devastated either. the actual loss for me would be relatively small compared to those who threw 10 grand at this thing. this is the downside to having your customers be your investors, in this sense, its the risk, I've backed multiple early access games, I have a tarkov EOD account, the great thing about early access and paid closed betas/alphas is that these days more games get made because they ultimately get funded by the ppl who want to play them. otherwise ofc you are looking at investors, if they don't like your idea you won't get funded. this is the crux of this in that sense, this game wouldn't exist if no one wanted to play it. there is an obligation (which you and many others seem completely oblivious to). I have as much faith in BSG to pump out a decent tarkov as I have in RSI to one day, push out a playable game. in the UK I think RSI are more accountable for what they do, I can't say the same for the Russians but I don't hold it against them. they are making the best FPS on the market right now. no question. tarkov is a game that is very similar to SC in the sense that the ambition probably is greater than what can be delivered, but I don't doubt the ppl making the game, i can play the game, I bought it in i think 0.5 or 0,6 back then it was a desync'd cluster fuck that worked some of the time, its still rough around the edges in some cases, but it is playable, you are able to hop in and see for yourself how good it is, or not, depending on your standards I suppose.

i feel like if you cut out all the bitching and moaning and its a scam and i make 50 star citizens a week posts, this thread would be 500 pages shorter. if ya gunna quote me again quote this whole post, I said all of this, not one or two lines, every fucking word. the whole context. i'm not going to let anyone pick and choose what I did and did not say anymore. you don't get to drag me into repetition. if you were truly that disparaged by this game and honestly feel like legal recourse is needed, then do something about it? grow a fucking spine save yourself several more thousands of hours of whining about the game and do something, thats the only way you're going to get resolution. the only way. this is the only definitive answer you're going to get to any thing you say. everyone else maybe being polite, well i'm being blunt.

[Corvus]

games are taking longer to develop, games like cyberpunk and RDR2 took 8-9 years so when you actually pay attention to what SC is doing then 9 years is not that long, CiG did have to build a company from nothing to that is a good few years of slow development, plus many of the things they are doing have never been done together in a game, star citizen is probably the hardest game to make for any company.

Cyberpunk was not in development that long. They announced they were going to make it that long before release but didn't start working on it until after Witcher 3 and it's DLCs were completed. So basically only half as long as you claim.

[kenn9530]

Cyberpunk was not in development that long. They announced they were going to make it that long before release but didn't start working on it until after Witcher 3 and it's DLCs were completed. So basically only half as long as you claim.

Cyberpunk 2077 has been in the works just as long as star citizen so no it didnt take half as long, cyberpunks creator has acted as a consultant for the game since 2012, you could even say SC and Cyberpunk has been through a similar situation from starting at a small team and working its way up for several years, buts its a fact that cyberpunk has been worked on around the same time as star citizen.

Games are just taking longer and longer to develop, especially when you overlap on technological advances that could make the game even better, not to mention space games are the hardest genre to develop a game for since they are much more involved.

[notaltacc]

Cyberpunk 2077 has been in the works just as long as star citizen so no it didnt take half as long, cyberpunks creator has acted as a consultant for the game since 2012, you could even say SC and Cyberpunk has been through a similar situation from starting at a small team and working its way up for several years, buts its a fact that cyberpunk has been worked on around the same time as star citizen.

Games are just taking longer and longer to develop, especially when you overlap on technological advances that could make the game even better, not to mention space games are the hardest genre to develop a game for since they are much more involved.

"The game entered pre-production with approximately 50 staff members after CD Projekt Red finished The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt – Blood and Wine (2016)."

@ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk_2077

*Yawn What was the original release date for S42 again? 2014?

[kenn9530]

"The game entered pre-production with approximately 50 staff members after CD Projekt Red finished The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt – Blood and Wine (2016)."

@ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk_2077

*Yawn What was the original release date for S42 again? 2014?

For one origional release for SQ42 was made irrelevant from stretch goals, its impossible to make a game in the same time when it has increased in size multiple times so try again with something at least slightly relevant. Community wanted a larger game so thats what we are getting.

Cyperpunk 2077 has been in research and development with a team of around 40 since at least 2012, using pondsmith as a consultant so there has been work on the project for 9 plus years, thats a fact so do some basic research at least before talking BS but BS is a trend of all the posts you make in here.

[notaltacc]

For one origional release for SQ42 was made irrelevant from stretch goals, its impossible to make a game in the same time when it has increased in size multiple times so try again with something at least slightly relevant. Community wanted a larger game so thats what we are getting.

Cyperpunk 2077 has been in research and development with a team of around 40 since at least 2012, using pondsmith as a consultant so there has been work on the project for 9 plus years, thats a fact so do some basic research at least before talking BS but BS is a trend of all the posts you make in here.

Christ all mighty, you sound rather upset.

Rather weird that you would think such a thing, I've been merely sourcing information about your wild claims.

Maybe you should just start doing it youself instead of giving people just a "trust me bro" followed by silly "that's bullshit!" child like tantrums to everything that doesn't fit your narrative.

[kenn9530]

Christ all mighty, you sound rather upset.

Rather weird that you would think such a thing, I've been merely sourcing information about your wild claims.

Maybe you should just start doing it youself instead of giving people just a "trust me bro" followed by silly "that's bullshit!" child like tantrums to everything that doesn't fit your narrative.

If you cant even state the correct information its just BS plan and simple, nothing to do with being upset or whatever, if you are going to call someone out at least spend 1 minute more getting the right information to begin with. A few sentances above what you posted is even the information saying that there has been research and development on cyberpunk for much longer than 2015, there was even a cyberpunk trailer in 2013.

[Henako]

If you cant even state the correct information its just BS plan and simple, nothing to do with being upset or whatever, if you are going to call someone out at least spend 1 minute more getting the right information to begin with. A few sentances above what you posted is even the information saying that there has been research and development on cyberpunk for much longer than 2015, there was even a cyberpunk trailer in 2013.

Link a source please. He did.

[Rennadrel]

You don't have to own the game or even have played the game to comment on the game. Don't like that? Too bad.

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Yet here you are wasting your breath on something that will amount to nothing as well. Irony.

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That is like saying, "Oh I know they have wasted millions of dollars and years making this game, but maybe one day a game will come out of it. But while we wait let us attack people who aren't okay with this and defend more money being tossed into the pit and more years of waiting." That is crazy. I don't get why people keep tossing money and supporting a company that may be lying about SQ42 and server meshing.

People still buy shit games like Barbie Horse Adventures and a myriad of other shovelware games that you see on Steam or the Nintendo eShop. But it's their money, they are free to do with it as they like just as you are. I backed the game too, but at least I've had the sense not to spend more than what I thought was reasonable.

[notaltacc]

If you cant even state the correct information its just BS plan and simple, nothing to do with being upset or whatever, if you are going to call someone out at least spend 1 minute more getting the right information to begin with. A few sentances above what you posted is even the information saying that there has been research and development on cyberpunk for much longer than 2015, there was even a cyberpunk trailer in 2013.

The information I just sourced comes from Wikipedia, and it matches with the information provided by multiple interviews from gaming new websites with CPR.

Mike Pondsmith, began consulting with CD Projekt Red on the story of Cyberpunk 2077 in 2012.

It was in 2016 when the Cyberpunk 2077 officially entered pre-production stages as CD Projekt Red began assembling a team.

@ https://gamerjournalist.com/when-did...t-development/

It’s okay if you want to count 2012 as the start of Cyberpunk’s development.

However, you have to apply the same princinple to Star Citizen as well, and according to CiG themselves, they had at least 1 year worth of work before even launching the Kickstarter.

Either way, I’m still waiting on a source besides the “trust me bro”, I mean, do what you preach, you called me up, accused me of spewing bullshit in every post I make, yet all you offer is a fuck ton of nothing in return. You hypocrite little derp.

[Kyanion]

People still buy shit games like Barbie Horse Adventures and a myriad of other shovelware games that you see on Steam or the Nintendo eShop. But it's their money, they are free to do with it as they like just as you are. I backed the game too, but at least I've had the sense not to spend more than what I thought was reasonable.

Never said they can't spend their money how they want? I said I don't get why people back it, I think it is a project with a lot of red flags. Lots of lies from CIG/CR on the record and it is 2021 and the game is far away from being done. No SQ42 no server meshing.

[notaltacc]

Oh, and if that still isn't enough, you also have it directly from CDPR itself, and I quote:

It’s been over 2077 days since we announced our plan to develop Cyberpunk 2077. We released a CGI trailer, gave some interviews and… went dark. Normal procedure for these kinds of things — you announce a game and then shut up, roll up your sleeves and get to work. We wanted to give you the Witcher 3 and both expansions first, which is why this period of staying silent was longer than we planned. Sorry for that.

As soon as we concluded work on Blood and Wine, we were able to go full speed ahead with CP2077’s pre-production. But we chose to remain silent. Why? At she point we made the decisions to resume talking about the game when we have something to show. Something meaningful and substantial. This is because we do realize you’ve been impatiently waiting for a very long time, and we wouldn’t like anyone to feel that we’re taking this for granted. On the contrary — it gives us a lot of extra motivation. The hype is real, so the sweat and tears need to be real, too

This was a hidden message in the trailer they released, you can read more about it @ https://www.businessinsider.com/cybe...ge-2018-6?op=1

Maybe instead of projecting your own issues into others, you should just follow your own advise and do some "basic research"?

Also, fun fact, the last “research” you asked people to do, ended up with an insane list of posts made by you filled with lies and contradictions, a list that you refuse to address to this day, truth is, you are limited to regurgitating what’s written in CiG’s holy book, and once that starts failing you just point your finger at people while spewing hollow accusations, its just sad to watch.

[kenn9530]

The information I just sourced comes from Wikipedia, and it matches with the information provided by multiple interviews from gaming new websites with CPR.





@ https://gamerjournalist.com/when-did...t-development/

It’s okay if you want to count 2012 as the start of Cyberpunk’s development.

However, you have to apply the same princinple to Star Citizen as well, and according to CiG themselves, they had at least 1 year worth of work before even launching the Kickstarter.

Either way, I’m still waiting on a source besides the “trust me bro”, I mean, do what you preach, you called me up, accused me of spewing bullshit in every post I make, yet all you offer is a fuck ton of nothing in return. You hypocrite little derp.

can start at around 11.47 mark and it even says in the wiki that a team of 40 have been working on it since probably it was announced or before that, so at least 2012, 2016 was the start of full development not the start of development, can you actually read the basic information that is available. Its the same as Star Citizen where is took several years after the kickstarter before full development even started, actual development didnt really start until at least the kickstarter because they didnt have the money or staff/devs to do that much before it.

You told me a while ago that this doesn't count toward dev time within the dev cycle when it came to SC, so that SC had a shorter development time than it actually has. Why is that not the case for Cyberpunk?

Do you not understand what the development means in research and development for a game, star citizen didnt have any money or staff to actually develop the game until around the kickstarter so its impossible to actually make a game until that point.