[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Edge-]

I'm wondering when legal liability kicks in for CIG. Granted, it's crowdfunded and there's no guarantee of a final product with those, but if at this point, CIG knows there won't be anything they're stillpromising, I would think they would be in some hot water.

What legal liability though? They're working on the game still and that's all they need to do to stay on the right side of the law with this stuff, unlike Elyria crowdfunded MMO which seems to have largely taken the money and ran and is now building some garbage "management" game to avoid lawsuits about this.

This is just the nature of crowdfunding, most of the crowdfunded MMO's are still in development long beyond their expected ship date.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Any idea why? Seems like he popped his head into a CitizenCon video last year to just say hello, then vanished again.

Chris has been historically responsible for much of the project's bad press. He makes big, grandiose promises at citizencon and promises "you're going to get this in the next patch/this year!" and then it doesn't happen. Sandworms from the 2016 citizencon. Advanced AI and the lab infiltration mission from the 2019 citizencon. The jump to the Pyro star system. The old 2014 ArcCorp demo that was much more grandiose than the city planet we wound up getting in 2019. And so on. Backers call him out on these overpromises and under deliveries and the media picks up on it and writes articles about it. Tony Z and Jared don't make anywhere near as big claims, nor are they big names like Chris Roberts, so by doing most of the communication they spare CIG the flak.

[Zeta333]

This is a rather bold claim, considering you have absolutely no way to back it up.

I mean, the guys behind EvE could probably do everything SC does if they wanted to. Maybe there's a reason they haven't? I mean, you do realize that the EvE team already has: "EvE" the full feature MMO space game, "Dust" a full feature FPS ground game, and "Valkyrie" a full feature Dogfight Space game. Literally the only thing SC does is roll that into one "seamless" package. Pretty sure that if the EvE team wanted to, they could pull something similar off. Likely the only reason they don't want to is because it would effectively kill the current EvE MMO, and they have no reason to kill something that's still incredibly popular and profitable.

becuase ccp is a fuckfest of shit management and departing developers. Could they do somthing with thier experience like SC? Prob given enough years. Eve is a shitshow of legacy code from 15 years ago that hinders the game in ever way and the ONLY way to modernize and fix it is to rebuild. They cant rebuild cus people wont tolerate eve being shelves and progress wont transfer over so they will stop playing and lose what little population they have left. So they are forced to Frankenstein thier current game. right now its a game to see how much new shit they can stack on legacy code before it all tumbles down.

- - - Updated - - -

Standard Chris Roberts then. He's arguably the biggest problem with SC, ironically.

A man with a history of vaporware is a problem with a game thats becoming vaporware? The irony, if only this was called from the start. Remember his last game where he was booted and then they had to spend a few years fixing it before it could be released after already years of dev time.

[Kyanion]

I'm just looking at the forum and the tone is definitely different to what I usually expect to see. The roadmap post has certainly become a meme, particularly in how backers are somehow distractions to the devs. So I'd have expected some basic communication to apologise, at the very least. Instead, nothing. Just certain posts being deleted by mods.

I wonder if their important community (read the whales/dolphins) are finally tired of having shit being flung at them from the company they are backing for this game. Their latest post basically blaming the community for taking roadmaps too serious was just mindblowing to me.

[kenn9530]

if the whales get tired of waiting, and the funding get low enough, then no, there will not be a released version of the game, and THAT is a fact.
all they have proven is than they can deliver a pretty environment, but an EMPTY one.
most of the systems don't work or have no finality yet.

I'm still waiting for the solo game, but seeing the state of the alpha, I really doubt SQ42 will be done by 2026, let alone it's "sequels"...

It will release at some point even if a few things have to be put in later, the money is not going to dry up anytime soon and the company generates at least 10 million a year income on its own in 2019 without backers. The current version of the PU alpha is not a representation on how much work has been done, its just a small part of it.

[Edge-]

It will release at some point even if a few things have to be put in later, the money is not going to dry up anytime soon and the company generates at least 10 million a year income on its own in 2019 without backers.

Wait, what? How is any money spent on the game not considered backing it at this point?

The current version of the PU alpha is not a representation on how much work has been done, its just a small part of it.

So the PU isn't a good representation
The roadmap is useless and not worth looking at

So how are we supposed to figure out what kind of progress is being made? Just take them at their word?

[Kyanion]

Nah, there are still people that are basically Kenn/Mr Anderson on there, saying they're right to blame the "noise" that is some backers. CIG can still do no wrong to those people.

Sad but true, but you have to think there is a boiling point for their whales at some point. How long can they keep it all going while not finishing the game? It is so weird.

[kenn9530]

This is a rather bold claim, considering you have absolutely no way to back it up.

I mean, the guys behind EvE could probably do everything SC does if they wanted to. Maybe there's a reason they haven't? I mean, you do realize that the EvE team already has: "EvE" the full feature MMO space game, "Dust" a full feature FPS ground game, and "Valkyrie" a full feature Dogfight Space game. Literally the only thing SC does is roll that into one "seamless" package. Pretty sure that if the EvE team wanted to, they could pull something similar off. Likely the only reason they don't want to is because it would effectively kill the current EvE MMO, and they have no reason to kill something that's still incredibly popular and profitable.

Its fact because the only one that is doing it is CiG, if the EVE team could do it they would of done it by now, Dust and Valkarie are essential dead games as noone plays them, noone wants a standalone dogfighting sim or ground PvP they want it in a complete all in one game.

[Edge-]

if the EVE team could do it they would of done it by now

This presumes they'd ever want to. Which they don't seem to.

Dust and Valkarie are essential dead games as noone plays them, noone wants a standalone dogfighting sim or ground PvP they want it in a complete all in one game.

Dust died because it was a PS3-exclusive shooter release when the platform was a wasteland for shooters. Valkarie actually performed well for them as a VR shooter during the first wave of VR games, but that's all it was supposed to be - an experiment with a VR dogfighter.

Your analysis is way off-base.

[kenn9530]

Wait, what? How is any money spent on the game not considered backing it at this point?



So the PU isn't a good representation
The roadmap is useless and not worth looking at

So how are we supposed to figure out what kind of progress is being made? Just take them at their word?

The company itself makes an at least extra 10 million per year by other means regardless of backers buying space ships, that means backers had nothing to do with that income.

You are to just wait until its ready for release, the PUs main reason is testing features with a larger playerbase and to give the backers something to test themselves.

[Edge-]

The company itself makes an at least extra 10 million per year by other means regardless of backers buying space ships, that means backers had nothing to do with that income.

From...what? Where? Do you have any links, because this is confusing to me.

You are to just wait until its ready for release, the PUs main reason is testing features with a larger playerbase and to give the backers something to test themselves.

So is there any way for folks to find out how the game is progressing if, according to you -

The PU/live servers aren't a good representation of the current state of development

and

The roadmap isn't very useful since it changes so much

So how are folks supposed to find out about development progress, then? Wasn't committing to a transparent development process a bit thing for this game?

[kenn9530]

From...what? Where? Do you have any links, because this is confusing to me.



So is there any way for folks to find out how the game is progressing if, according to you -

The PU/live servers aren't a good representation of the current state of development

and

The roadmap isn't very useful since it changes so much

So how are folks supposed to find out about development progress, then? Wasn't committing to a transparent development process a bit thing for this game?

Its in the star citizen financials, the income on the website is just the crowdfunding money raised, the company itself has raised from other income and subsciption around 90 million, and has had around 50 million in other investment, so on top of the crowdfunded money they have raised an extra 140 million or so, so total amount of money is at around 580 million raised not spent.

Other income and subscriptions does not effect the amount raised from backers buying ships and packages.

[Edge-]

Its in the star citizen financials, the income on the website is just the crowdfunding money raised, the company itself has raised from other income and subsciption around 90 million, and has had around 50 million in other investment, so on top of the crowdfunded money they have raised an extra 140 million or so, so total amount of money is at around 580 million raised not spent.

Other income and subscriptions does not effect the amount raised from backers buying ships and packages.

Ah, so $10/20 sub options that apparently exist to fund Inside Star Citizen, Star Citizen Live, and Calling All Devs. Yeah, that's still crowdfunding since that's going towards promotional efforts for SC/SQ42. I'm not sure what "other income" you're talking about, and outside investment like you're talking about is just that - actual investment in the company/game, it's not revenue.

[Edge-]

So $40m more than even the highest estimate for RDR2 that you used as an example earlier? Whew.

Raised, not necessarily spent. We don't know what they're spending now, but for context they were spending around $4M a month in 2017. And they have more staff and more external support studios working on the game since then.

I can't imagine what their burn rate is now, nowhere near enough info.

[kenn9530]

Ah, so $10/20 sub options that apparently exist to fund Inside Star Citizen, Star Citizen Live, and Calling All Devs. Yeah, that's still crowdfunding since that's going towards promotional efforts for SC/SQ42. I'm not sure what "other income" you're talking about, and outside investment like you're talking about is just that - actual investment in the company/game, it's not revenue.

Sub options is not crowdfunding, its an optional extra service you have access to items, a monthly ship and other benefits, its just extra money generated by the company.

https://cloudimperiumgames.com/blog/...cials-for-2020 other income is partnerships, sponsorship income and other things like local incentives for having a company in a certain area.

[Vakna]

Before 2026, I guess, since they believe they'll be running a popular MMO in 2026.

I mean they also said on the kickstarter I donated to 10 years ago that they would probably have about a 3 year dev time, so not sure how useful information like that is. I have a feeling that when this game finally comes out, it will be so outdated it looks and feels shit. It's like waiting for a PS2 game to come out and by the time it releases the PS4 is the current console.

[kenn9530]

I mean they also said on the kickstarter I donated to 10 years ago that they would probably have about a 3 year dev time, so not sure how useful information like that is. I have a feeling that when this game finally comes out, it will be so outdated it looks and feels shit. It's like waiting for a PS2 game to come out and by the time it releases the PS4 is the current console.

After the kickstarter was completed the community was given an option to expand the game and they voted yes, so it evolved into the MMO and SQ42 they are currently developing so that 3 year dev time was thrown out the window.

The graphics themselves are excellent and they have designed the systems to be easier to update as needed so as technology improves they could constantly update things like the graphics as the years progress but it will take a good few years for the current graphics to look outdated.

[Henako]

It will release at some point even if a few things have to be put in later, the money is not going to dry up anytime soon and the company generates at least 10 million a year income on its own in 2019 without backers. The current version of the PU alpha is not a representation on how much work has been done, its just a small part of it.

I love statements like this, because if they don't get server meshing working, this is literally all the game could ever be. They're incapable of adding more content, and the current game barely functions as it is.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

After the kickstarter was completed the community was given an option to expand the game and they voted yes

This ignores the fact that Roberts just tacked on promise after promise in the form of stretch goals. Most of the scope creep happened during that time.

[kenn9530]

This ignores the fact that Roberts just tacked on promise after promise in the form of stretch goals. Most of the scope creep happened during that time.

The only stretch goals that really expanded the size was number of systems ships and procedural generation, all of which are required for a proper space MMO, i myself would rather wait as long as required for a complete space game rather than the dissapointment with how elite dangerous turned out.

A freelancer 2.0 would of been nice but we need a game to keep you playing, a freelancer 2.0 wouldnt hold as many players for long especially without planet exploration and all the extras.