[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Edge-]

You claimed the progress tracker shows static server meshing is pushed to 2023. That is wrong, it does not show that. Which is wrong information at this moment. You can be wrong sometimes its ok, we all make mistakes.

It just shows it going until the end of the year and ends there, but it should be a fairly same assumption, based off their consistent inability to hit target delivery dates, that it will extend into 2023.

[Yelmurc]

Is that on the roadmap separately? Because I didn't see it, and if it's not, then I wonder where you got his info from and/or why they wouldn't include this in the roadmap since this sounds like pretty big information, no?

If you go on the progress tracker you can toggle between "Teams" and "Deliverables" If you look at the deliverables you can see when each team is working on on a specific item. So lets say a vehicles is being finished. You won't see audio and Visual Effects teams until its almost complete. This works on most content features. Lighting isn't going to touch an area until its mainly build.

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It just shows it going until the end of the year and ends there, but it should be a fairly same assumption, based off their consistent inability to hit target delivery dates, that it will extend into 2023.

Also its all of server meshing and not just static. He may be reading the progress tracker wrong, it's not totally his fault. And yes CIG is the see can kick it down the road company. So who knows when anything will come out. But it's not confirmed it is pushed to 2023. He is just making an assumption based on an incorrect reading of the progress tracker.

[Edge-]

If you go on the progress tracker you can toggle between "Teams" and "Deliverables" If you look at the deliverables you can see when each team is working on on a specific item. So lets say a vehicles is being finished. You won't see audio and Visual Effects teams until its almost complete. This works on most content features. Lighting isn't going to touch an area until its mainly build.

I am looking at the deliverable line for server meshing under persistent streaming tech, which extends to the end of 2022. The only thing they have going into 2023 (and barely, at that) is their "bug fix and tech debt" team, and I doubt they are remotely likely to meet the majority of those deliverable dates for 2022. Again, based on past performance.

[Kyanion]

You claimed the progress tracker shows static server meshing is pushed to 2023. That is wrong, it does not show that. Which is wrong information at this moment. You can be wrong sometimes its ok, we all make mistakes.

Ohhhh excuse me, the bar stops at around December 29 2022 give or take a day. How dare I round it to the next year.

Are you fucking kidding me?

Also its all of server meshing and not just static. He may be reading the progress tracker wrong, it's not totally his fault. And yes CIG is the see can kick it down the road company. So who knows when anything will come out. But it's not confirmed it is pushed to 2023. He is just making an assumption based on an incorrect reading of the progress tracker.

Dude get over yourself. If a bar goes to right before Jan 2023 what do you think it means? That server meshing is going to take up almost all of 2022. Not that I have any faith whatsoever in that company to meet those goals. Due not assume you know the 'correct reading of the progress tracker' either buddy.

[Edge-]

But it's not confirmed it is pushed to 2023. He is just making an assumption based on an incorrect reading of the progress tracker.

No, it's a safe assumption based off of CIG's consistent inability to meet deliverable dates, especially for anything forecast more than 3 months out from the current date.

[Yelmurc]

I am looking at the deliverable line for server meshing under persistent streaming tech, which extends to the end of 2022. The only thing they have going into 2023 (and barely, at that) is their "bug fix and tech debt" team, and I doubt they are remotely likely to meet the majority of those deliverable dates for 2022. Again, based on past performance.

Server meshing is not going to work quite the same way. Most teams have to get their sections of the game setup for it first. Then they build the server meshing. So it's almost an opposite of what usually happens. If you look at Persistent Streaming and Server Meshing Deliverable it shows the Persistent Teach and network teams until the end of 2022 and Game Services Team until the end of September. Also note as we get closer to release you may see additional teams have time added to the schedule. They won't add them until they know when a section is going to be complete.

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Ohhhh excuse me, the bar stops at around December 29 2022 give or take a day. How dare I round it to the next year.

Are you fucking kidding me?



Dude get over yourself. If a bar goes to right before Jan 2023 what do you think it means? That server meshing is going to take up almost all of 2022. Not that I have any faith whatsoever in that company to meet those goals. Due not assume you know the 'correct reading of the progress tracker' either buddy.

Your issue is that you don't understand that static server meshing is only a part of server meshing. That tracker is for all of server meshing work not just static. No where in that tracker does it say static. It is a schedule for all work on server meshing which will probably never finish even after dynamic server meshing is in since they will always be optimizations.

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No, it's a safe assumption based off of CIG's consistent inability to meet deliverable dates, especially for anything forecast more than 3 months out from the current date.

You can make that assumption but you shouldn't use an incorrect reading of the progress tracker to prove your point.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

It's been nearly half a decade since NPCs broke. Bartenders don't even hand you a drink and generic NPCs can't even do a simple patrol walk around the city because they're bugged out and T-posing in chairs or walking in place.




If CIG can't even get simple stuff like this right, I don't see how they could ever achieve the fancy server tech dream they've been touting.

[Edge-]

Server meshing is not going to work quite the same way. Most teams have to get their sections of the game setup for it first. Then they build the server meshing. So it's almost an opposite of what usually happens

...what? Why would they need to have the new content for server meshing? That makes no sense, and from what I recall they were specifically waiting on sever meshing before releasing new star systems.

Your issue is that you don't understand that static server meshing is only a part of server meshing. That tracker is for all of server meshing work not just static. No where in that tracker does it say static.

But they don't mention static server meshing? Just server meshing in general, which includes both static/dynamic.

It is a schedule for all work on server meshing which will probably never finish even after dynamic server meshing is in since they will always be optimizations.

This is news to me, and also would be a new way for roadmaps to work because this is not how roadmaps have ever worked. Your deliverable date is when the tech/content/feature is ready to be deployed, period. Additional work and bugfixing isn't factored into that, that occurs after it's been deployed.

You can make that assumption but you shouldn't use an incorrect reading of the progress tracker to prove your point.

Except they've given no indication they read it incorrectly, that's just your assertion.

They were correct that server meshing extends to the end of the year, and that if past experience is anything to go by that CIG will not meet that target date and server meshing work will extend into 2023.

[Yelmurc]

...what? Why would they need to have the new content for server meshing? That makes no sense, and from what I recall they were specifically waiting on sever meshing before releasing new star systems.



But they don't mention static server meshing? Just server meshing in general, which includes both static/dynamic.



This is news to me, and also would be a new way for roadmaps to work because this is not how roadmaps have ever worked. Your deliverable date is when the tech/content/feature is ready to be deployed, period. Additional work and bugfixing isn't factored into that, that occurs after it's been deployed.



Except they've given no indication they read it incorrectly, that's just your assertion.

They were correct that server meshing extends to the end of the year, and that if past experience is anything to go by that CIG will not meet that target date and server meshing work will extend into 2023.

Parts of a deliverable can be delivered and work will continue on the progress tracker. Case and point look at the deliverable for Derelict Spaceships. It has the MTL Sandbox team working on the wrecks, a bunch of teams jump in to finish up the Caterpillar wrecks, they where released in 3.16.1 and now the progress tracker shows more work from the MTL Sandbox team as they work on the Reclaimer wrecks. You'll see the same support teams come back in near release.

Server meshing will work the same way. When static server meshing is ready to be released, you see some additional work from other teams. A release and continued work from the main teams working on server meshing.

[Edge-]

Parts of a deliverable can be delivered and work will continue on the progress tracker. Case and point look at the deliverable for Derelict Spaceships. It has the MTL Sandbox team working on the wrecks, a bunch of teams jump in to finish up the Caterpillar wrecks, they where released in 3.16.1 and now the progress tracker shows more work from the MTL Sandbox team as they work on the Reclaimer wrecks. You'll see the same support teams come back in near release.

Yes, content teams. Server meshing isn't content, it's core tech needed for the content teams to build more content.

Server meshing will work the same way. When static server meshing is ready to be released, you see some additional work from other teams. A release and continued work from the main teams working on server meshing.

Their inability to break down static vs. dynamic server meshing more granularly is the source of these problems. Their inability to project anything accurately, meet delivery dates, and communicate clearly is the source of these problems.

[Yelmurc]

Yes, content teams. Server meshing isn't content, it's core tech needed for the content teams to build more content.



Their inability to break down static vs. dynamic server meshing more granularly is the source of these problems. Their inability to project anything accurately, meet delivery dates, and communicate clearly is the source of these problems.

Then how do you explain the Gen12 rendering, we get parts of that throughout the patches. its not all delivered at once.

As for your second point, yes their tracker is shit and needs a lot of work to be more clear, we can both agree on that. My own argument here is that people are not readying the tracker correctly. Its not necessarily their fault, but their reading on it was wrong.

[Kyanion]

Snip

Hey whatever man, you can believe whatever bullshit CIG feeds to you. They have a proven track record of missing repeated roadmap dates and pushing things back. This server meshing is a pipe dream that they can't get right. But don't worry just give them X more time and Y more dollars and that dream will be a reality!

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yes their tracker is shit and needs a lot of work to be more clear

It is almost as if the tracker is vague on purpose. Now why would that be?

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people are not readying the tracker correctly

And what if you are the one reading it correctly? If the tracker is shit how can anyone read it 'correctly'.

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their reading on it was wrong.

You can't read it wrong if it is done in a shitty vague way.

[Edge-]

Then how do you explain the Gen12 rendering, we get parts of that throughout the patches. its not all delivered at once.

Parts, yes. Server meshing has some major milestone aspects, none of which are broken out, which leaves us completely guessing as to the more specific status.

As for your second point, yes their tracker is shit and needs a lot of work to be more clear, we can both agree on that. My own argument here is that people are not readying the tracker correctly. Its not necessarily their fault, but their reading on it was wrong.

Honestly, I don't want them wasting more time on a fourth iteration of the roadmap, with the prior three versions all proving useless in function and persistent problems with managing expectations within their community.

I honestly don't think they are reading the tracker incorrectly though. Just very reasonably assuming that server meshing as a whole will not be delivered in 2022. Which again, based off of all previous history with CIG is absolutely reasonable.

[Yelmurc]

Hey whatever man, you can believe whatever bullshit CIG feeds to you. They have a proven track record of missing repeated roadmap dates and pushing things back. This server meshing is a pipe dream that they can't get right. But don't worry just give them X more time and Y more dollars and that dream will be a reality!

When did I say I think static server meshing was going to be delivered in 2022. I honestly have no idea, my point is that a claim was made based on misreading the progress tracker and that claim at this moment has no proof. You can say, I don't think it's going to be delivered in 2022 and also say the progress tracker does not show it being pushed to 2023 or later. It only shows work on the server meshing in general is scheduled till the end of the year. They do not need all of server meshing to be complete to push out static server meshing. Feel free to say you "feel" like its going to be pushed to 2023 all you want, currently until they announce it you have not proof.

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Parts, yes. Server meshing has some major milestone aspects, none of which are broken out, which leaves us completely guessing as to the more specific status.



Honestly, I don't want them wasting more time on a fourth iteration of the roadmap, with the prior three versions all proving useless in function and persistent problems with managing expectations within their community.

I honestly don't think they are reading the tracker incorrectly though. Just very reasonably assuming that server meshing as a whole will not be delivered in 2022. Which again, based off of all previous history with CIG is absolutely reasonable.

They don't need server meshing as a whole to deliver Pyro, they only need static server meshing. So yes parts of server meshing can be delivered and the rest is being worked on. See https://robertsspaceindustries.com/c...-Streaming-Q-A

[Revamp Man]

It's been nearly half a decade since NPCs broke. Bartenders don't even hand you a drink and generic NPCs can't even do a simple patrol walk around the city because they're bugged out and T-posing in chairs or walking in place.




If CIG can't even get simple stuff like this right, I don't see how they could ever achieve the fancy server tech dream they've been touting.

thats my point with this thing they call a game

focus on fixing the shit you got before you talk about all the stuff you want


i swear it is like the devs never grew up past 11

[Edge-]

They don't need server meshing as a whole to deliver Pyro, they only need static server meshing. So yes parts of server meshing can be delivered and the rest is being worked on. See https://robertsspaceindustries.com/c...-Streaming-Q-A

You're repeating yourself on things we already agree upon/know. My point being that we have absolutely zero indication that static server will be delivered in time for Pyro, especially given that CIG isn't committing to deliverables more than 3 months out.

Again, the current roadmap with a lack of specificity and them continuing to miss targeted deliverable dates gives us absolutely no reason to have trust or confidence in this vague projection 10 months out.

[Yelmurc]

You're repeating yourself on things we already agree upon/know. My point being that we have absolutely zero indication that static server will be delivered in time for Pyro, especially given that CIG isn't committing to deliverables more than 3 months out.

Again, the current roadmap with a lack of specificity and them continuing to miss targeted deliverable dates gives us absolutely no reason to have trust or confidence in this vague projection 10 months out.

Fair enough, this all stemmed from people claiming it was pushed to 2023. We don't have enough information to make that claim yet. So that claim is wrong. If we agree with that there is nothing else to discuss.

[kenn9530]

It's been nearly half a decade since NPCs broke. Bartenders don't even hand you a drink and generic NPCs can't even do a simple patrol walk around the city because they're bugged out and T-posing in chairs or walking in place.



If CIG can't even get simple stuff like this right, I don't see how they could ever achieve the fancy server tech dream they've been touting.

Do you actually follow development at all, because if you actually payed attention you would know the AI will be handled in the universe simulation quanta, a background simulation that will deal with everything and only load in whatever is needed close to players, they have shown this system in action already, the AI in the alpha is just for atmosphere.

[Edge-]

Do you actually follow development at all, because if you actually payed attention you would know the AI will be handled in the universe simulation quanta, a background simulation that will deal with everything and only load in whatever is needed close to players, they have shown this system in action already, the AI in the alpha is just for atmosphere.

For more advanced behaviors, yes. But very basic stuff like pre-set paths and animation sequences right now don't require quanta and should be fairly simple to implement.

Also: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/c...port-June-2020

You should tell Chris Roberts that all AI will be handled by quanta, because he seems unaware of this as of at least June 2020, talking about different AI - including bartenders! - and narry a mention of quanta.

[Yelmurc]

For more advanced behaviors, yes. But very basic stuff like pre-set paths and animation sequences right now don't require quanta and should be fairly simple to implement.

Also: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/c...port-June-2020

You should tell Chris Roberts that all AI will be handled by quanta, because he seems unaware of this as of at least June 2020, talking about different AI - including bartenders! - and narry a mention of quanta.

My understanding of this is that since the server has to deal with the whole system the tick rate for AI is horrible once a server has been up for awhile. I have no idea if that is actually the case I assume if we do get server meshing this year or next it will be telling how much of the AI is a server issue and how much of the AI is a CIG issue.