1. #14421
    The Lightbringer Proskill's Avatar
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  2. #14422
    Quote Originally Posted by MrAnderson View Post
    The way I read it, and I can be mistaken, Ken statement
    "tech already exists to allow thousands of players to play with each other" refers to network technology in general.
    As in, that "problem" as been solved already in the industry.
    No dude, it may be 'solved' in the industry but SC cannot do it. It isn't in the game. Thousands of players CANNOT play with each other. That is a fact. If you're going to try and correct people on SC issues you need to be correcting people that defend the game that defend it with incorrect information or outright lies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakzor View Post
    Inb4 "it technically allows however many, but can't handle more than 50,so i'm correct" or some similar excuse...
    I mean I know I'm not surprised here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrAnderson View Post
    The thing is, the problem CIG is trying to solve has some extra requirements that other games going for massive ammount of players don't have, so it's more complex to achieve:
    A problem they have been unable to solve up to this point. A problem that apparently delays many other things they are doing and a problem that somehow manages to stop the single player game from being around too. About right?

  3. #14423
    I just read through the last few pages of this thread. It has become apparent that some people need to move on. If your not a fan of the game, Why continue to shit post? Its not healthy for you mental state.

    That said;

    This game is full of potential and I hope they realize that potential. Development is moving slowly but as long as they continue to be supported by their player base they can take all the time they need.

    I’ve been following it for awhile and find following the development enjoyable, the multiple updates a week always give me something to read or watch.

    I’ll continue to follow it and play other games while I wait.

    On a fun note. What is everyone’s favorite ships? Right now I love the 400i and upcoming Scorpius.

  4. #14424
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    No dude, it may be 'solved' in the industry but SC cannot do it. It isn't in the game. Thousands of players CANNOT play with each other. That is a fact. If you're going to try and correct people on SC issues you need to be correcting people that defend the game that defend it with incorrect information or outright lies.

    A problem they have been unable to solve up to this point. A problem that apparently delays many other things they are doing and a problem that somehow manages to stop the single player game from being around too. About right?
    I didn't read it as Ken saying that in Star Citizen you can already play with thousands of players, but that there are already games that allow for that. Hence, it's not a technological feat that's impossible to achieve since it's already been done in the industry.

    CIG are developing their own solution to cater their needs and that involves multi steps of tech development along the years like explained in my precious post.

    Technology doesn't happen by magic after all. The groundwork has to be developed and then implemented in stages. Which like any other company does behind closed doors. The open development nature of crowdfunded games allows to follow the process along the journey which is really cool imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Proskill View Post
    [video]
    Great video to put all the work done in perspective, indeed time flies when you're having fun!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelmurc View Post
    On a fun note. What is everyone’s favorite ships? Right now I love the 400i and upcoming Scorpius.
    Design wise I really dig the Prowler and the Sabre. Practical and versatility wise it's between the Avenger Titan and Cutlass Black.
    Last edited by MrAnderson; 2022-01-29 at 05:44 PM.

  5. #14425
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakzor View Post
    Inb4 "it technically allows however many, but can't handle more than 50,so i'm correct" or some similar excuse...
    You do realise what the current server has to load in right, its not just the 50 players on the server its everything so the server itself can handle alot of stuff, many like to ignore that to be ignorant just to try to talk crap about the game, if you actually do a little research before making a comment you would actually learn what they have planned to do with the servers.

    Currently most of the work should be directed at SQ42, the game is still the best space game of its genre available and it evolves every single patch.

    Also kyanion to save you some time and pointless posting you dont need to reply to me because its a waste of time. I already gave up on your one sided ignorant views a long time ago.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2022-01-29 at 05:50 PM.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  6. #14426
    Quote Originally Posted by Yelmurc View Post
    I just read through the last few pages of this thread. It has become apparent that some people need to move on. If your not a fan of the game, Why continue to shit post? Its not healthy for you mental state.
    This is what I´ve been thinking for a long time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yelmurc View Post
    On a fun note. What is everyone’s favorite ships? Right now I love the 400i and upcoming Scorpius.
    From the Handling I like the Gladius, sadly doesnt really pack much of a Punch. I also came to like the Banu Defender alot, it is kinda Tanky and packs alot of Punch for its size.

    From Design Standpoint i´m waiting for the Merchantman.

  7. #14427
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    You do realise what the current server has to load in right, its not just the 50 players
    Sure, but the conversation is about total concurrent players on a server... which would be capped at 50 in this case. So...

  8. #14428
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    im going to go with several hundered developers over a random poster on MMO champ with what can and cant be done, the tech already exists to allow thousands of players to play with each other as it stands now, the system CiG want to use just goes the next step further than that and they will use the old system as a stepping stone before hand, so i do know whats going on with the game when you clearly dont.
    Developers that have lied to you constantly. Developers who would beg for an industry job even if it meant lying to you to get PAID.

    So you are saying that CIG have solved packet loss? Do you even know what Nagles' Algorithm is? Of course you don't. You'd be on my side of the fence if you did. No, the game isn't possible. From the net standpoint to the hardware. No PC can render thousands of players at once. No server can maintain TLoc info on thousands of players within render distance.

    If CIG had or has solved this problem, then they'd be worth billions and would be pitching to the military for secure funding over 20 years while corporate fight over their IP and well, it's a gold mine. They are selling you flying cars. You think flying cars are possible. They might be, but you have nowhere to drive it. Right now you appear ignorant and quite naive but I assure you that in a moments notice you'll do some googling and with sunken cost in hand, you'll save face in your reply within seconds. You either suffer from Dunning Kruegers or you are just plain ignorant. Perhaps you may have an inkling that Santa Claus could be real, you never gave up hope on the myth.

    No. The game the company proposes isn't possible. Not with todays PCs and do you honestly think the game company can change the internet connections around the world, solve packet loss, create cheap, 5D RAM and cutting-edge graphics systems that don't exist in order to sell their game? You do, don't you?

    Use your brain. They beg the consumer for funding because they know FULL WELL that no game house would touch the product with a 10 foot pole. It's not only laughably impossible to create, but there's so many pipe dreamers behind the wheel, that few even care about producing a practical, playable game. My evidence? Time. The evidence to prove you are willfully ignorant (stupid) speaks for itself.

    Many games have come out since the Ponzi wing commander scam. One comes to mind- Empyrion. A real developer with an eye for the market and a pretty good solid lead on the future of online gaming. It's doing thing that CIG dream of. Tiny team, not much money. The disgusting part is that you support the scammers while not supporting actual developers with real games. Good one!
    Last edited by zysis; 2022-01-29 at 06:29 PM.

  9. #14429
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    You do realise what the current server has to load in right, its not just the 50 players on the server its everything so the server itself can handle alot of stuff, many like to ignore that to be ignorant just to try to talk crap about the game, if you actually do a little research before making a comment you would actually learn what they have planned to do with the servers.

    Currently most of the work should be directed at SQ42, the game is still the best space game of its genre available and it evolves every single patch.

    Also kyanion to save you some time and pointless posting you dont need to reply to me because its a waste of time. I already gave up on your one sided ignorant views a long time ago.
    Yes, and other games servers have to handle everything outside of players aswell. They also need to load environments, npcs, physics and whatnot. From the game that was made 30 years ago to the game that is released last week, they all have servers that need to handle a lot more than just playercharacters. And where did i talk crap about the game? I just said that you'll probably find some excuse, which you did (or rather avoided it entirely and attacked me). The game cannot handle more than 50 concurrent people playing together, that's a fact. That the tech for it exists somewhere at all, does not mean that it will work in this game without any problems or that it will be implemented at all. The existing present and a promised future can be two very different things.
    I am pretty neutral about the game itself, if it releases, sure i might give it a shot as the concept itself is pretty interesting and if it never goes anywhere, i haven't invested in it

  10. #14430
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    You do realise what the current server has to load in right, its not just the 50 players on the server its everything so the server itself can handle alot of stuff, many like to ignore that to be ignorant just to try to talk crap about the game, if you actually do a little research before making a comment you would actually learn what they have planned to do with the servers.

    Currently most of the work should be directed at SQ42, the game is still the best space game of its genre available and it evolves every single patch.

    Also kyanion to save you some time and pointless posting you dont need to reply to me because its a waste of time. I already gave up on your one sided ignorant views a long time ago.
    Ah personal attacks because again you say things that are opinions but try to push them as facts.

  11. #14431
    Oh hey this shit show is still going on. And after defending this shit show for so long, people can't really back out and continue defending it? Amazing game about human psychology and something something sunken cost fallacy.
    My nickname is "LDEV", not "idev". (both font clarification and ez bait)

    yall im smh @ ur simplified english

  12. #14432
    Quote Originally Posted by zysis View Post
    So you are saying that CIG have solved packet loss? Do you even know what Nagles' Algorithm is? Of course you don't. You'd be on my side of the fence if you did. No, the game isn't possible. From the net standpoint to the hardware. No PC can render thousands of players at once. No server can maintain TLoc info on thousands of players within render distance.
    Planetside already has thousand of player battles with somewhat similar tech, in principle that is. Star Citizen is just extrapolating that to a persistent universe scale.

    Server meshing is fundamentally about partitioning the load into different servers, distributing the load dynamically and seamlessly.

    Getting all that working along flawlessly is not easy work but that's why this project is so appealing to so many. If it was easy someone else would have done it by now.

    This video explains it more indepth and goes through the technicalities should be more up your professional alley:
    Last edited by MrAnderson; 2022-01-29 at 08:43 PM.

  13. #14433
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrAnderson View Post
    I didn't read it as Ken saying that in Star Citizen you can already play with thousands of players, but that there are already games that allow for that. Hence, it's not a technological feat that's impossible to achieve since it's already been done in the industry.

    CIG are developing their own solution to cater their needs and that involves multi steps of tech development along the years like explained in my precious post.

    Technology doesn't happen by magic after all. The groundwork has to be developed and then implemented in stages. Which like any other company does behind closed doors. The open development nature of crowdfunded games allows to follow the process along the journey which is really cool imo.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Great video to put all the work done in perspective, indeed time flies when you're having fun!

    - - - Updated - - -



    Design wise I really dig the Prowler and the Sabre. Practical and versatility wise it's between the Avenger Titan and Cutlass Black.
    The problem is that server meshing technology has been supposedly in development for what, 4 or 5 years now? At some point it has to get done.

  14. #14434
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    The problem is that server meshing technology has been supposedly in development for what, 4 or 5 years now? At some point it has to get done.
    It would only be a "problem" if the company was short on funds or time which they're not.

    Like said before, it's a lenghty and complex work that requires several stages to be viable. The lenghty ground work is done to go for the meshing stage, first static then dynamic. Explained here: https://prezi.com/view/l5DorjAy1dUz8BoDnuoF/
    Last edited by MrAnderson; 2022-01-29 at 09:21 PM.

  15. #14435
    Quote Originally Posted by zysis View Post
    Developers that have lied to you constantly. Developers who would beg for an industry job even if it meant lying to you to get PAID.

    So you are saying that CIG have solved packet loss? Do you even know what Nagles' Algorithm is? Of course you don't. You'd be on my side of the fence if you did. No, the game isn't possible. From the net standpoint to the hardware. No PC can render thousands of players at once. No server can maintain TLoc info on thousands of players within render distance.

    If CIG had or has solved this problem, then they'd be worth billions and would be pitching to the military for secure funding over 20 years while corporate fight over their IP and well, it's a gold mine. They are selling you flying cars. You think flying cars are possible. They might be, but you have nowhere to drive it. Right now you appear ignorant and quite naive but I assure you that in a moments notice you'll do some googling and with sunken cost in hand, you'll save face in your reply within seconds. You either suffer from Dunning Kruegers or you are just plain ignorant. Perhaps you may have an inkling that Santa Claus could be real, you never gave up hope on the myth.

    No. The game the company proposes isn't possible. Not with todays PCs and do you honestly think the game company can change the internet connections around the world, solve packet loss, create cheap, 5D RAM and cutting-edge graphics systems that don't exist in order to sell their game? You do, don't you?

    Use your brain. They beg the consumer for funding because they know FULL WELL that no game house would touch the product with a 10 foot pole. It's not only laughably impossible to create, but there's so many pipe dreamers behind the wheel, that few even care about producing a practical, playable game. My evidence? Time. The evidence to prove you are willfully ignorant (stupid) speaks for itself.

    Many games have come out since the Ponzi wing commander scam. One comes to mind- Empyrion. A real developer with an eye for the market and a pretty good solid lead on the future of online gaming. It's doing thing that CIG dream of. Tiny team, not much money. The disgusting part is that you support the scammers while not supporting actual developers with real games. Good one!
    The game is possible, there is already tech that can render 30000 players in the same area, the game doesnt need to be able to load every single player in the same area it just has to have enough capacity to load as much as it can, CiG are going to give us the experience as large as they possibly can while still having suitable performance, so you are just talking BS about thing being impossible when certain things can already be done with current tech available.

    Im not expecting thousands of ships being able to battle each other and have perfect performance, and CiG have not promised that either, im expecting to be able to have battle with a few hundred ships at a time and still have decent performance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakzor View Post
    Yes, and other games servers have to handle everything outside of players aswell. They also need to load environments, npcs, physics and whatnot. From the game that was made 30 years ago to the game that is released last week, they all have servers that need to handle a lot more than just playercharacters. And where did i talk crap about the game? I just said that you'll probably find some excuse, which you did (or rather avoided it entirely and attacked me). The game cannot handle more than 50 concurrent people playing together, that's a fact. That the tech for it exists somewhere at all, does not mean that it will work in this game without any problems or that it will be implemented at all. The existing present and a promised future can be two very different things.
    I am pretty neutral about the game itself, if it releases, sure i might give it a shot as the concept itself is pretty interesting and if it never goes anywhere, i haven't invested in it
    Not on one server they dont, most MMOs need to have many servers to spread out everything or they just dont work, its actually pretty impressive what the server in SC have to handle and still give good performance as it currently stands, you are talking BS about what a server can or cant handle when you dont know what it can do in the first place, if a server can handle loading in hundreds of AI, multiple planets, stations, players, cities and space ships it can easily handle more than 50 players when it doesnt need to do that all at the same time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    The problem is that server meshing technology has been supposedly in development for what, 4 or 5 years now? At some point it has to get done.
    It can take many years to develop everything required to make a game work so whats the problem, there is many steps towards server meshing that have to be done first.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2022-01-30 at 01:51 AM.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  16. #14436
    Man I saw this thread pop up and thought we got something

    Turns out it’s just a rerun of the Steve wilkos where the wife admits to cheating constantly and refuses to stop and the husband just says “well she has her reasons ya know whaim sayeen but I love her Steve and I’m not leaving”

  17. #14437
    Quote Originally Posted by MrAnderson View Post
    Planetside already has thousand of player battles with somewhat similar tech, in principle that is. Star Citizen is just extrapolating that to a persistent universe scale.

    Server meshing is fundamentally about partitioning the load into different servers, distributing the load dynamically and seamlessly.

    Getting all that working along flawlessly is not easy work but that's why this project is so appealing to so many. If it was easy someone else would have done it by now.

    This video explains it more indepth and goes through the technicalities should be more up your professional alley:
    Uh, no, nu-uh, Planetside isn't even close to what SC tries to be. It has massive maps and battles but the players can only affect other players and predefined objects in the environment. It doesn't have dozens of extremely taxing features planned to all be run at once. It doesn't have far-reaching player interactions. It doesn't have the persistent universe which in and of itself is hugely demanding. And most importantly, it's actually a released game that actually works. Servers do shit the bed from time to time tho and their monetization is only slightly less bullshit than SC's so there's that too.

    No amount of buzzwords will mask the reality that they can't make a server that doesn't shit the bed executing a fraction of what the final game promises to be after close to 10 years. Nobody has done it because it's like promising to build a car that takes you directly to the moon. Sure, it's a bold and sexy claim, but nobody else tries it because physics says it's not possible period so instead they focus their effort on making things that actually work. They can keep claiming they're getting there as they put better tires on the car and improve its aerodynamism, and hopefully at some point the engine will be fully installed so the car can actually start reliably, but they're still no closer to the moon than when they started.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

    The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.

  18. #14438
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Dragons View Post
    Man I saw this thread pop up and thought we got something
    Yesterday we got a video showing off concept art for crash sites, and cool towns built out of crash sites, the latter of which we probably won't get to see until 2026 or something.








  19. #14439
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Uh, no, nu-uh, Planetside isn't even close to what SC tries to be. It has massive maps and battles but the players can only affect other players and predefined objects in the environment. It doesn't have dozens of extremely taxing features planned to all be run at once. It doesn't have far-reaching player interactions. It doesn't have the persistent universe which in and of itself is hugely demanding.
    Yes, it is indeed a complex task.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    No amount of buzzwords will mask the reality that they can't make a server that doesn't shit the bed executing a fraction of what the final game promises
    That's why they are going with multiple servers meshed toguether instead of just having one aka server meshing. To spread the server load accordingly when needed.

  20. #14440
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Yesterday we got a video showing off concept art for crash sites, and cool towns built out of crash sites, the latter of which we probably won't get to see until 2026 or something.







    I mean I guess it’s at least something

    I really wish they would just focus on getting features they have announced ready

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