1. #15221
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Writing something so complex such as flexible UI is literally shooting yourself in foot. The same shit when multiple companies tried to do their version of web renderer and guess what? Hundreds of microsoft devs said, screw it, it was a mistake (Edge abandoned their shit and moved to chromium). Now only two remains, chromium and firefox.

    Yes, no size fits it all, trying to reinvent the wheel only to end up with bootleg hexagon years after is not a solution. For simple shit its viable, for advanced layouts - nope.

    I originally intended to write a lengthy post about it but screw it: There is no way i hell you can create flexible and complex UI engine without pouring millions of dollars - and that still won't be as good as literally embedding CEF into game. And it won't even be close performance wise.
    We dont know what they are actually doing with the UI system in the game, they are currrently doing it the best way possible for what the game actually requires, you are essentially just guessing they are not using a system you think is better, and dont actually know what is actually suitable for the game they are making.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  2. #15222
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    they are currrently doing it the best way possible for what the game actually requires
    You always say this but never actually say why. Just because they're working on the game doesn't mean every idea they have is "good".

    And given all the persistent troubles throughout development including long delays and missed deadlines/projections, I think we can safely say that CIG is making plenty of mistakes during development. And there's no reason to think this isn't one of them.

  3. #15223
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    You always say this but never actually say why. Just because they're working on the game doesn't mean every idea they have is "good".

    And given all the persistent troubles throughout development including long delays and missed deadlines/projections, I think we can safely say that CIG is making plenty of mistakes during development. And there's no reason to think this isn't one of them.
    With a team of hundreds of developers if there was a better way to do something it would of already been discussed, with the amount of developers they have they have plenty of experience and knowledge to decide what is better for the game or not.

    Not everything in develop works out exactly as planned, thats the whole point you try something and if it doesnt do what you want you do something else, in games development when making a game never been done before its a trial and error process at times.

    CiG has as long as they need to make the game the way they want, there is no concern about pushing back features because they are not ready, there is a ton of work to do and they still need more staff to do it.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  4. #15224
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    With a team of hundreds of developers if there was a better way to do something it would of already been discussed, with the amount of developers they have they have plenty of experience and knowledge to decide what is better for the game or not.
    This presumes it's universally true and...given all the games that have launched as failures, we know it's not.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    CiG has as long as they need to make the game the way they want, there is no concern about pushing back features because they are not ready, there is a ton of work to do and they still need more staff to do it.
    Why have they produced 3 separate roadmap systems? Why is the community frequently complaining about time being spent on things like bedsheet deformation instead of actually getting the games out the door (especially SQ42)?

  5. #15225
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    This presumes it's universally true and...given all the games that have launched as failures, we know it's not.



    Why have they produced 3 separate roadmap systems? Why is the community frequently complaining about time being spent on things like bedsheet deformation instead of actually getting the games out the door (especially SQ42)?
    What they are doing is working, we have lots of different UIs for all the ships and such which have good functionality to them so i have no issues with the work on the UI, so they are doing good work on the UI.

    Not many actually care or are interested in roadmaps so its just wasted effort mostly, the community doesnt really complain all that much on the forum that actually matters as its mostly positive.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  6. #15226
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    What they are doing is working, we have lots of different UIs for all the ships and such which have good functionality to them so i have no issues with the work on the UI, so they are doing good work on the UI.
    There are a lot of functional implementations for UI's, that doesn't mean that they're good implementations simply because they work.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Not many actually care or are interested in roadmaps so its just wasted effort mostly, the community doesnt really complain all that much on the forum that actually matters as its mostly positive.
    So why did CIG waste months of time over the span of 3 years building 3 different roadmaps from scratch? You know, that thing that IIRC they promised in the Kickstarter (transparent development) and that the community has criticized them for when the prior roadmaps were inadequate and less useful over time, which is why CIG has needed to rebuild it twice so far.

  7. #15227
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    There are a lot of functional implementations for UI's, that doesn't mean that they're good implementations simply because they work.



    So why did CIG waste months of time over the span of 3 years building 3 different roadmaps from scratch? You know, that thing that IIRC they promised in the Kickstarter (transparent development) and that the community has criticized them for when the prior roadmaps were inadequate and less useful over time, which is why CIG has needed to rebuild it twice so far.
    The way the UIs work in star citizen is great, the UIs in the game have function and purpose, they are doing fine work on the UI front and i have yet to see anyone really complaining about it.

    CiG do things they say they will do even if its mostly a waste of time for a small amount of players, the large majority dont care about road maps we prefer what we can get our hands on, roadmaps are just there to have a rough idea of whats coming available, there is very little complaining from the actual community about most things about the game. Every game has players complaining about things that dont really matter.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  8. #15228
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    the large majority dont care about road maps we prefer what we can get our hands on, roadmaps are just there to have a rough idea of whats coming available, there is very little complaining from the actual community about most things about the game. Every game has players complaining about things that dont really matter.
    Prove it. /10

  9. #15229
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    CiG do things they say they will do even if its mostly a waste of time for a small amount of players, the large majority dont care about road maps we prefer what we can get our hands on, roadmaps are just there to have a rough idea of whats coming available, there is very little complaining from the actual community about most things about the game. Every game has players complaining about things that dont really matter.
    So do you think it's a good idea for CIG to waste a ton of time from multiple teams rebuilding roadmaps for a "small amount of players"?

    If the roadmap isn't accurate, what's the point of it, then?

    The last line, bolded, is completely pointless. I guess we can't be critical of any game at all since its developers clearly know what's best and there will always be players complaining.

  10. #15230
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    So do you think it's a good idea for CIG to waste a ton of time from multiple teams rebuilding roadmaps for a "small amount of players"?

    If the roadmap isn't accurate, what's the point of it, then?

    The last line, bolded, is completely pointless. I guess we can't be critical of any game at all since its developers clearly know what's best and there will always be players complaining.
    Its not up to me to decide whats a good idea, if a company wants to do something its up to them to do it.

    Roadmaps dont really have much of a purpose, its best to just annouce whats going on in an update prior to it being updated.

    You can be critical all you want, but it doesnt mean the company isnt doing whats best for the game.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  11. #15231
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    We dont know what they are actually doing with the UI system in the game
    Okay so we don't know
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    they are currrently doing it the best way possible for what the game actually requires
    But you know apparently?
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    you are essentially just guessing
    Which is it? You guessing or you don't know or you know.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    What they are doing is working
    The one thing that SC does that we know works: They generate a LOT of fucking money from people who are deeply invested in it actually launching one day.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Not many actually care or are interested in roadmaps so its just wasted effort mostly
    There goes kenn speaking for everyone again.
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    the community doesnt really complain all that much on the forum that actually matters as its mostly positive.
    CIG's own backers on their forums paint a different picture of course, but nothing to see behind the curtain! Actually the backers on those forums seem to mock the game more than complain about it I suppose.

  12. #15232
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Its not up to me to decide whats a good idea, if a company wants to do something its up to them to do it.
    I'm just asking your personal opinion, my guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Roadmaps dont really have much of a purpose, its best to just annouce whats going on in an update prior to it being updated.
    No, this is the functional equivilege of a milestone calendar that developers routinely have to create for publishers/investors. CIG is just lucky in that they literally don't have to meet any of these milestones and that failure to do so doesn't put continued funding at risk.

    And if they don't have much of a purpose, why waste so much time building 3 of them from scratch, complete with interactive web pages?

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    but it doesnt mean the company isnt doing whats best for the game.
    And it doesn't mean they are, either. That's the rub here, buddy.

  13. #15233
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    and i have yet to see anyone really complaining about it.
    Considering you also don't see complaining on the official forums (which there is plenty of) of course you don't.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Roadmaps dont really have much of a purpose
    Roadmaps? Who needs 'em. What purpose do they even serve? Just go make some fancy bedsheets and shitting AI tech, they'll throw more cash at us. ~CIG 2022

  14. #15234
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I'm just asking your personal opinion, my guy.



    No, this is the functional equivilege of a milestone calendar that developers routinely have to create for publishers/investors. CIG is just lucky in that they literally don't have to meet any of these milestones and that failure to do so doesn't put continued funding at risk.

    And if they don't have much of a purpose, why waste so much time building 3 of them from scratch, complete with interactive web pages?



    And it doesn't mean they are, either. That's the rub here, buddy.
    They can do whatever they want with the roadmaps its thier company, they do have employees that can do that stuff that doesnt take time from development.

    They keep generating more money than ever before so ppl dont actually care what they do, they just look at the results and thats more than enough to give them more money.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  15. #15235
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    They can do whatever they want with the roadmaps its thier company, they do have employees that can do that stuff that doesnt take time from development.

    They keep generating more money than ever before so ppl dont actually care what they do, they just look at the results and thats more than enough to give them more money.
    This just reeks of "Leave CiG alone!" energy.

  16. #15236
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    They can do whatever they want
    The ultimate defense to block any criticisms or debate in this thread. You can't be critical of CIG. You can't criticize CIG. The game is released. The game is not released.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    they do have employees that can do that stuff that doesnt take time from development.
    Says the person that has no idea what they are doing internally unless it is something they tell you.
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    We dont know what they are actually doing
    Cause you don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    They keep generating more money than ever before so ppl dont actually care what they do
    Hey look the Anderson defense! And actually people do care, go look at their backer forums, they kind of seem like they might care what is going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    they just look at the results and thats more than enough to give them more money.
    Apparently they never have to release a game. They will always generate money and people will never wise up. Tech won't pass them by while they take 15+ years to make this game. Nope. Endless money.
    Last edited by Kyanion; 2022-05-09 at 08:50 PM.

  17. #15237
    Quote Originally Posted by Thestrawman View Post
    This just reeks of "Leave CiG alone!" energy.
    There is No War in Ba Sing Se?
    "A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with said person or organization. A shill may also act to discredit opponents or critics of the person or organization in which they have a vested interest."
    Exhibit A & Exhibit B

  18. #15238
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    With a team of hundreds of developers if there was a better way to do something it would of already been discussed, with the amount of developers they have they have plenty of experience and knowledge to decide what is better for the game or not.
    Lots of developers doesn't mean they'll always come to the best possible solution for something.

    Have you also ever heard the phrase that "too many cooks spoil the broth"?

  19. #15239
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    We dont know what they are actually doing with the UI system in the game, they are currrently doing it the best way possible for what the game actually requires, you are essentially just guessing they are not using a system you think is better, and dont actually know what is actually suitable for the game they are making.
    Actually there is a huge chance its terrible decision, good luck finding devs for in house solutions and making them learn.
    Ship has been abandoned.
    ---

    NextUI for XIV


  20. #15240
    With Star Citizen - the game is just bad.

    It is just a never-ending cycle of just alphabet cereal, excuses and other stuff on why it can't be completed while at the same time promising the world and continuing to do so.

    Its like the No Man Sky except instead of fixing the game, the dev just kept promising more and more while doing nothing.

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