[Megathread] Star Citizen

[MrAnderson]

Jesus Christ beyond you're "I wish I worked for CIG" stoogelike attitude you just ignore what was said to try and twist it into a narrative. Do you think what he said in 2020 invalidates all the lies he spewed the years prior? NO. But that's okay, you justify it by saying 'they made more money' as if that makes everything they've done prior better. I'm really happy you think playing a game made by such dishonest people is okay, I'm sure CR is laughing all the way to the bank which he's putting into his mansion. Congrats, you are enriching people who want to draw this out as long as possible to wring as much money as they can out of you. You deserve a medal for your sacrifice to the cause.

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Ah yes, snippets of footage. Really shows the polish doesn't it? Really shows that all the lies they were making in 2016-2020 were worth it huh?

I ignore because it doesn't have a leg to stand on and it's irrelevant how much gamers will cry about "lies" or "broken promises" when talking about game development as history shows that uncertainty and change are part of game development, and that showcasing the process as early as crowdfunded studios do there's bound to be missed dates and changes along the way.

Some people know how to deal with that better than others. Due by knowledge and experience or just personality.

This is specially factual and easy observed in every crowdfunded mmo in development. All of them have their backers, they hyped ones, the doubters, the restless ones the angry gamers, the haters and their trolls that want to see the games fail.

In the end all that matters are the ones that actually add something to the project. Being it the dev's with their work or the backers through funding, playtesting and constructive feedback.

Gamers support and will play whatever games they enjoy. I'm sure you still cherish your moments in WoW despite all the stuff that Blizzard does/did.

After all it's still just video-games.

[banmebaby]

Continuous player and funding growth can't exist on a vacuum, crowdfunding projects that fail to present results don't last long in the graces of their backers.

No one said otherwise, it was never the point.

Which is why the majority of those who complain or have a problem with how the company takes their time developing Squadron 42 are not even backers, players or supports of the project at all hence completely irrelevant to the discussion.

An asspull born out of desperation to gatekeep criticism, it addresses fuck nothing of what’s actual being discussed. Everyone in here could be backer and you would still be making up excuses to dismiss their criticism.

Because if they were, CIG wouldn't be seeing the continuous record numbers of player engagement and funding like they do.

Which is one of the predicates of Crowdfunded focused games. Projects are born and live by it's crowd, it's community.

Which can only be sustained by constant delivery with demonstration of progress year after year which CIG has been doing since inception despite what outsiders like to preach.

Something something "Dogs bark, but the caravan keeps on."

Sigh…again, no one is denying the money they are making, and also, there are no caravans nor dogs here my dude, only a nice fucking yacht on an ocean full of whales.

In case you haven't noticed Chris Roberts around 2020 was asked: "When will Squadron 42 would be ready?"

And he said, and I quote:
"The best answer for your question is Squadron 42 will be done when it is done, and will not be released just to make a date but instead once all the tech and content is finished, polished and it plays great"

…. And suddenly what CiG said isn’t irrelevant anymore, just like that.

Out of all of these:

[IMG]

That’s the only one that is relevant, go figure

[MrAnderson]

That does not really mean much I am afraid. For exemple,

I'm sure you could find better examples than irrelevant cases and businesses that have nothing to do with gaming or it's industry.

There are plenty of cases of reported game development taking their time, delays, changes of scope, overbudgets etc along with past and present similar crowdunding cases.

[Otaka]

And once again it needs pointing out that no matter how long GTA6 is taking, they're not telling people, "No no, it's almost done, right around the corner, we're almost there, so give us more money."

And neither is CiG... whens the last time they said that? ive never heard them say "its almost done", perhaps about a single feature but not the entire game.
If youre talking about something that happened in 2014... then grow up, let it go... its not healthy to cling onto something for that long, they have clearly learned and improved, so should you.


And once again it needs pointing out that games we know are in development might not actually be... many games have been cancelled after their development was revealed. And many have been terrible even with long development times... thats what you get for not making sure its being developed properly.
Look at Anthem? Andromeda? Cyberpunk? Battlefield 42? all good and hyped... ended up not that great when we finally had them in our hands.
Trailers were lies and scripted... nothing like the finished product.

So no they arent telling us "its almost done give us more money", what they are telling us is "heres a finished product, an amazing high quality game! now pay full price" and the product is a massive turd. Marketing was lies... and you wouldnt know it since there was no alphas or betas to test.

[MrAnderson]

That’s the only one that is relevant, go figure

Indeed. As per normal, with the ever changing nature of game development, the most acurate and relevant information will always be the most recent one given by the guys in charge.

[Cloverfield]

I'm sure you could find better examples than irrelevant cases and businesses that have nothing to do with gaming or it's industry.

It seems the Theranos fraud case is actually very relevant for SQ42: Both showed and hyped tons of progress with a lot of videos and words, for very sub par or no results over a decade. Theranos fraud raised 1.4 billion, and CIG over a third of that so far and counting... It is actually uncanny how both companies have behaved so similarly in so many respects.

As an interesting complementary anecdote, their CEOs even took a very similar way to shape their public image and behaviour, trying to suggest in the viewer the same idea of tech breakthrough delivered by Apple/Steve Jobs. Although in the case of Ms Holmes and Chris Roberts, the parallels to Apple remain at the clothing level...

[MrAnderson]

Seems you're extrapolating quite a bit there and letting some biased misconceptions create an alternative reality because, reasons.
Hand-waving an alternative reality where a pharmaceutical company business as anything to do with a Game development studio and crowdfunding seems kind of a stretch.
But then again you seem to think that the only reason Jackfrags was doing Star Citizen videos was because he was being paid by CIG.

Cherry picking pictures of people using a black outfit doesn't really do much for your case when it could very well be Steve Jobs or a TED Talkers starter pack.

[banmebaby]

Indeed. As per normal, with the ever changing nature of game development, the most acurate and relevant information will always be the most recent one given by the guys in charge.

Glad to hear that. Because also from the end of 2020:



S42 team is in “close out mode” and focusing on polishing… for 2 years now.

whens the last time they said that? ive never heard them say "its almost done"

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53893208

They have been saying it every year till 2019, in 2020 they gave us the "it will be done when it's done" and the just "focusing on polishing" shared above.

grow up, let it go... its not healthy to cling onto something for that long

Roflmao, hahahahaha!

[MrAnderson]

S42 team is in “close out mode” and focusing on polishing… for 2 years now.

So?

Are you saying that the "close out mode" and "focus on polishing" shouldn't be taking the time it's taking? On what basis?

Btw, that's not the most recent communication from the head honcho though, this years Letter From the Chairman is.

[Ghost of Cow]

So?

Are you saying that the "close out mode" and "focus on polishing" shouldn't be taking the time it's taking? On what basis?

Btw, that's not the most recent communication from the head honcho though, this years Letter From the Chairman is.

Yes, where he gives us the big update of, "I have been working with the Squadron 42 team side-by-side in the office as we focus on finishing and polishing the content and features"

Sounds familiar.

[Kyanion]

This footage shown is way more than any other game in existence has shown pre-release...

Oh? So a game supposedly using the same assets as the MMO that has been in perpetual alpha for years is showing more footage than 'any other game in existence has shown in pre-release'? I mean are you sure about that? Cause the other two stooges on this forum crow about the game being released for years now.

Weird I guess those games that release hours of playable demo before their actual game comes out just...never happened. You are so dishonest it is painful man.

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It doesnt count if its shown several years later when the game is basically history already.

Exactly my point, SQ42 is going to use assets from the MMO which would be several years, well it has been several years already but that's beside the point.

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No new footage in 2021-2022? so needy.. why do you want more? GTA 6 for example has been in development for years and we have 0 seconds of footage about it. (almost as many years as SQ42, considering GTA 5 came out in 2013)

Because it is a crowdfunded game and they claimed to be transparent? Because for something that was greyboxed 6 years ago I think more is kind of warranted?

GTA6 is not a crowdfunded game nor is it in Perpetual Alpha with a fully functional cash shop. If GTA6 never releases then that does not impact potential customers. If CIG never completes their game or releases SQ42 then that impacts people who backed the game and 'donated' through the fully functional cash shop. Jesus can you be more dishonest? I dunno why you'd want to be on the side of a company that has repeatedly lied to their backers and enriches themselves through the donations of suckers...err customers.

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Also why dont you look at SC footage instead? dont forget, its literally the same universe and same assets... so everything you can see in SC is gonna be in SQ42 to some extent, especially ship related.

Right so everything in the game which has been around for years and SQ42 is still not done despite being greyboxed in 2016? Great footage!

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And once again it needs pointing out that no matter how long GTA6 is taking, they're not telling people, "No no, it's almost done, right around the corner, we're almost there, so give us more money."

Nor do they have a cash shop for items to use inside GTA6 before the game is even complete or even close to completion.

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I ignore because it doesn't have a leg to stand on and it's irrelevant how much gamers will cry about "lies" or "broken promises" when talking about game development as history shows that uncertainty and change are part of game development, and that showcasing the process as early as crowdfunded studios do there's bound to be missed dates and changes along the way.

Yup except their lies were just followed by more lies. I get delays and problems that crop up, but if they come out and lie to their backers and 'donators' then is that something a company should do? Of course, you'll say. CIG can do no wrong! You're just an unpaid yes man.

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And neither is CiG... whens the last time they said that? ive never heard them say "its almost done", perhaps about a single feature but not the entire game.
If youre talking about something that happened in 2014... then grow up, let it go... its not healthy to cling onto something for that long, they have clearly learned and improved, so should you.

Just going to ignore that whole greybox thing huh? That was years ago man, let it go!

They sure did learn and improve, they're saying the right things to continue to generate money from whales and suckers. Great job. If anything they've raised the bar on how to fleece the gullible. That is impressive in its own right if it wasn't so fucking sad.

[MrAnderson]

Yes, where he gives us the big update of, "I have been working with the Squadron 42 team side-by-side in the office as we focus on finishing and polishing the content and features"

Sounds familiar.

As it should no? Imo "focus on finishing and polishing the content and features" is a great thing.

Bad thing would be rushing it out the door broken and unfinished and still make +100$Million in sales like Anthem did only to be roasted and forgotten instead of doing good and getting sequels.

With the added bonus for CIG that all that money would be profit for CEO and Investors since development is already paid by backers.

[Ghost of Cow]

As it should no? Imo "focus on finishing and polishing the content and features" is a great thing.

Ok, forgetting the rest of the argument...lets just ask this:

Is there a year after which you could hear, "We're working on polish!" and think, "Oh come on, are you pulling my leg?"

[banmebaby]

So?

Are you saying that the "close out mode" and "focus on polishing" shouldn't be taking the time it's taking? On what basis?

Btw, that's not the most recent communication from the head honcho though, this years Letter From the Chairman is.

I'm saying exactly what they are saying, that the team has been on "close out mode" and "focus on polishing" in 2020.

Just like they were in 2016:



Just like they still are now in 2022 according to your Letter From The Chairman

Because of the ups and downs of last year, we are only just starting to get back to the office. The first studio where it became possible to start working together in person, at any scale, was our UK studio in Manchester, where I have been spending a lot of time since last fall. I have been working with the Squadron 42 team side-by-side in the office as we focus on finishing and polishing the content and features of what will be an epic narrative adventure.

[MrAnderson]

Ok, forgetting the rest of the argument...lets just ask this:

Is there a year after which you could hear, "We're working on polish!" and think, "Oh come on, are you pulling my leg?"

Just like every game I'm interested in, when it's ready I'll play it.
Until then I'll keep enjoying my usual games. Simple.

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Just like they still are now in 2022 according to your Letter From The Chairman

So? Are you saying that the "close out mode" and "focus on polishing" shouldn't be taking the time it's taking? On what basis?

[Edge-]

So? Are you saying that the "close out mode" and "focus on polishing" shouldn't be taking the time it's taking? On what basis?

On the basis that the amount of time, and possibly budget, they've put into "polishing" for the past 6 years is longer (in terms of length) than the development cycles for AAA titles from pre-production to shipping, fast-approaching the development cycles for full production of a MMO, and the corresponding budget just for polish is about what a "low-end" AAA game budgets for the entirety of development.

That or...Chris has been slinging a lot of BS and there's been more work scrapped and redone repeatedly over this time which is realistically the only way that any dedicated teams working on SQ42 could have kept busy over the span of 6 years.

[banmebaby]

So? Are you saying that the "close out mode" and "focus on polishing" shouldn't be taking the time it's taking? On what basis?

So? Are you saying that you need +6 year to polish a single player video game? On what basis?

Hummm, don't tell me that we are running out of field to keep moving that fucking goal post, are we? Might just stick to sharing those YouTube videos and bragging about dem views my dude.

[MrAnderson]

On the basis that the amount of time, and possibly budget, they've put into "polishing" for the past 6 years is longer (in terms of length) than the development cycles for AAA titles from pre-production to shipping, fast-approaching the development cycles for full production of a MMO, and the corresponding budget just for polish is about what a "low-end" AAA game budgets for the entirety of development.

That or...Chris has been slinging a lot of BS and there's been more work scrapped and redone repeatedly over this time which is realistically the only way that any dedicated teams working on SQ42 could have kept busy over the span of 6 years.

Completely normal considering crowdfunded nature of the project and the scope of both games.

One only has to observe the time taken by experienced and established companies to make their big production/scope games (RDR2 8 years with GTA6 already surpassing that) to understand that a crowdfunded studio doing a single-player game and mmo at the same time, while also having to release and maintain new playable builds along along with the crowdfund campaign to understand how it can take the time it's taking.

No doubt about it there was work scrapped, redone and thrown away for later or for good. Something that's quite common during game development for big studios and AAA productions.
Although CIG went probably further than most due to the massive increase of scope (fully seamless planetary travelling) allowed by the growth of funding / acquisition Crytek Developers which opened up completely new game design options that they for sure wanted to make the most of.

[Edge-]

Completely normal considering crowdfunded nature of the project and the scope of both games.

Normal compared to what? What other crowdfunded games have spent upwards of 6 years on polish?

One only has to observe the time taken by experienced and established companies to make their big production/scope games (RDR2 8 years with GTA6 already surpassing that) to understand that a crowdfunded studio doing a single-player game and mmo at the same time, while also having to release and maintain new playable builds along along with the crowdfund campaign to understand how it can take the time it's taking.

This is irrelevant. In 2016 SQ42 was apparently "basically done" meaning that full production had ended. RDR2 or GTA6 taking more time overall is irrelevant to this specific topic. Neither game spent 6 years on polish alone and there's zero evidence to support such a claim.

No doubt about it there was work scrapped, redone and thrown away for later or for good. Something that's quite common during game development for big studios and AAA productions.

No, this is not common for a game that's that close to completion, hence why it's a topic for discussion. You're going to need to provide examples of this to support your argument.

Although CIG went probably further than most due to the massive increase of scope (fully seamless planetary travelling) allowed by the growth of funding / acquisition Crytek Developers which opened up completely new game design options that they for sure wanted to make the most of.

Didn't this all happen pre-2016 and SQ42 being "done" and sent for polish? What relevance does that have years after the fact?

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen...rding_the_new/

They were hired in early 2015 and were already working on the game for well over a year at the time Chris announced it was "greyboxed" and they were ready to start polish passes, so you're going to need to connect those dots for me.

[MrAnderson]

So? Are you saying that you need +6 year to polish a single player video game? On what basis?

Hummm, don't tell me that we are running out of field to keep moving that fucking goal post, are we? Might just stick to sharing those YouTube videos and bragging about dem views my dude.

I'm saying that they can work and rework their game as they see fit and if they feel things are not up to par with what they want from their game. That's one of the main benefits of being an independent studio and why many veterans burned out from the AAA studios and their corporate bullshit leave and open their own studios where they can work at their own pace. If they think the game isn't ready they'll work on it to make it ready for long as they want.