[Megathread] Star Citizen

[- Zephox -]

This has been discussed previously and proven to be a false equivalence. There are many projects which have increased funding to even billions for years, sometime even over a decade, that have failed to present results or ended up presenting extremely sub par products.

It suffices that those buying in believe in the dream and the hype even if the current state is broken. Especially when the company is misrepresenting the actual state of the project, or even committing fraud. Theranos, Enron, Madoff, Lehman brothers etc are exemples of this.

I mean we are talking over people that defrauded the German government via a tax "hole" and right before they were actually called to court they sold the company they were in and 2 people got imprisoned from the board of directors while Chris Roberts and his friends made it safe. Sparked such an outrage the government essentially fixed the tax hole to avoid more stuff like this.(Chris Roberts after freelancer and his "movie" career)

These good people made CiG....

[Val the Moofia Boss]

"The big achievement in the last three months is that now everyone works on the same branch of the game".

The dev is saying that they are on the last leg of developing persistence and deploying it to the servers. No ETA though.

[banmebaby]

The dev is saying that they are on the last leg of developing persistence and deploying it to the servers. No ETA though.

I'm sure it just needs a little polish.

[MrAnderson]

Pre-Production 2010. Production in 2011. Crowdfunded in 2012. Greybox SC42 in 2016. Polish in 2016. Close out mode in 2020.

Here we are in 2022 talking about games like RDR2 and WoW which released complete games in a shorter timeframe. It isn't like SC comes out this year either. Not far from 2023, what will the new excuse be? Super Polish close out mode? What's the excuse for 2024? They better start polishing that one now.

I think you've got misguided with those timelines there and misunderstand the extra complexity involved in making Star Citizen and Squadron 42 though crowdfunding and a brand new studio.

The crowdfunding campaign was launched in October of 2012. From then on with the funding they got they started hiring and building the company while modifying CryEngine to allow them to make the game like they wanted.

In 2014 they opened the UK office which is the one doing most of the SQ42 work, and in 2015 they opened the Frankfurt office with the german team ex-crytek-Frankfurt. Which opened up the planetary generation tech and increased the scope of both games SC and SQ42 significantly. They've been working and increasing their work force every year, partnering with another studio in Canada Turbulent and acquiring a share in it and hiring even more developers there.

The endeavour of making a game of the scope and scale and detail of Star Citizen is significantly more complex and costly (both in time and money) than making a game like WoW. Just like the endeavour of making a game of the scale, scope and detail of Squadron 42 is significantly more complex and costly than making RDR2 for mostly because of scale, as in details SQ42 is aiming for the quality and polish of Rockstar and Naughty dog games, but done in a open galaxy with a lot of freedom and different ways to complete missions instead of the traditional open world but on rails story mode of RDR2.

Like...? You always talk in vague generalities and never actually provide examples. What. Other. Games?

I've provided multiple examples already (RDR2, Anthem, Cyberpunk, BeyondGood&Evil2, multiple times in this thread, I'm pretty sure we've already had this exact discussion over here.

That's...not how iteration actually works in development. You feature lock early and usually don't make major changes once that's done as those are fairly fundamental pieces of tech to the game overall, and you work towards content lock. At that point you spend time polishing, because polish work done prior is largely a big potential waste. Things are still cut and added throughout content locking, so if you spent a week polishing something that gets cut later on when you're locking content then congrats, that's a week of multiple peoples time burned and wasted.

Not when doing MMO's or games with a very big systemic approach with lot's of variables. Where "the main challenge is that all of the systems have to work together in an intricate fashion. One bad feature can topple the whole experience. If the dungeons are based on combat, and the combat is mediocre, then the dungeons are mediocre."

I don't know why you and others keep talking about CIG's development as if it's "standard" while also talking up how unique it is. Nothing about CIG's development process is remotely "standard" in game development and that's the whole reason there's so much ongoing discussion about it. Because they're not operating like any other development studio operates or following traditional/best-practices for gamedev.

It's standard for crowdfunding development, but since they're probably the first company attempting making both a single-player game AND a MMO of such scale and detail at the same time. While being a new studio, while having to build their engine and dev tools practically from the ground up While running a Live build.

Sure that part is not standard, the standard part is the changes (features, timelines etc) that plague such big production games along the way.

The entire development timeline for those games is irrelevant to the polish timeline for SQ42. Unless you can show that both games were "complete" and spent years being polished.

SQ42 is not being "in polish" for 6 years, that's the problem of falling for those cherry picked and out of context "quote images" at face value without actually listening to the complete discourse. Context is everything. Chris Roberts clearly states how the scope increased considerably:

AND how having the levels in grey box or better they still had plenty of tech hurdles and work in progress to do

to reach their quality bar and level of polish they want for the game. Starting at 56:30minutes :

Those are all examples of content cut because they didn't have time/budget to complete them for launch, or that got far along and simply didn't work out. It happens, but this is, again, not as "super common" as you say it is.

It's pretty common in big game productions simply because due to their scale there's always loose ends that end up being changed or cut completely. It's pretty documented to have happened to many games, both successful ones and failures. As curiosity Diablo was originally supposed to be a turn-base game and changed to live action during development.

So...was Chris lying when said that the game was greyboxed and in the polish state after that news came out then? Or is there some weird time travel shit going on?

Again, he never said that the game was in the "polishing state". And you being being a developer would know that from Grey-Box stage to Polish stage there's quite a big stretch of development needed to do. Anyone who actually watches the video will find quite easy to understand. What he said was that all chapters of the game were in greybox stage or better and that they were working on getting 1 complete mission to polish state to showcase to backers but that it wasn't quite there yet:.

Which was the 1 hour gameplay demo they ended up showing in the following year.


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During my time in game when I was most invested, and more recently in the spot occasions that I still check now and then, I have seen players asking for help, both old and new, but equally I have seen a similar, if not higher, amount of people stating leaving the game in the same period. Some players come, but many also leave. Your personal testimonial is very likely biased towards confirmation of your own point of view, as is probably mine so, meh?

There's nothing subjective about numbers though. Both funding and player engagement has grown considerably in the last years. Funding and player concurrency records have been broken for consecutive years. Not only there's multiple BIG content creators who started playing Star Citizen regularly but also plenty who used to play other space games (hint hint Elite Odyssey) moving in definitive to play mainly Star Citizen.

This is a simple result of Star Citizen getting performance updates (+FPS and less DSYNC) that make the game easier to run on lower end machines along with the addition of more and more features and events that keep players engaged, (looting + medical + dynamic missions + locations etc).

And yet he just did a handful of SC vids several months ago and that is it. Given those videos seem to have given him on average a higher view count than his regular ones, one would expect him to continue squeezing that "gold mine"... alas , he has not. The point was precisely that one of the main reasons for this is probably the extreme brokenness of SC, which in turn leads to extreme curation work from his part, in addition to the fact that he may have actually ended up suffering more than enjoying the whole experience: He probably rather play and stream other games that he has more fun with and that are much less broken.

That being the case, given jackfrags controversial relationship with paid for promotion and CIG's apparent keenness to sponsor this kind stuff (Rexzilla etc), the likelihood of those few vids being a sponsored job by CIG (directly or indirectly) are quite high, which always helps when the product is difficult to work with.

Just checking his youtube channel he has multiple videos of several different games, mostly seems to like First-Person-games so Star Citizen seems a natural choice, that it ended up his most viewed video this year is just a testament of what his viewers find entertaining. Good graphics and adventure shenanigans in a different setting in a fps game with planetary scale and highly detailed.

And you would be wrong. That is a common misconception by SC backers about publishers in general. Somehow they think shareholders are there to squeeze out as much cash out of a business as possible. It is actually the other way around (CIG seems to be an exception to this, see further below). Shareholders put their money in the company with the main expectation the share price will go up and then they will be able to eventually sell their stock at a better price than they bought it.

What I presume you are trying to refer to with that naïve "big fat bonus" is really dividends. But these do not work as you suggest. To start with not all companies offer dividends all the time to their shareholders, and apparently that is something that occurs even less often within the video game industry. Shareholders by default much rather the company reinvests its cash in projects with better yields, than issue the usual dividends. As a rule of thumb dividends are offered when a company has more cash floating around than projects with better yields to invest it in. There are companies that base their shareholder return mainly on dividends instead of growth but those are usually a minority and tend to be in companies with little to no growth prospects, which is far from being the case in the gaming industry.

As for FDEV in particular, it has not given dividends for years (if at all) so there was never a "big fat bonus" for shareholders at the end of the year as you say. That is simply incorrect.

So you're saying Frontier released the Odyssey update in a severely broken state loosing thousands of players trust and hurting and future sales just because they wanted?

What's next? They never wanted to release on Consoles in the first place?

So going back to your original point:

That still does not necessarily follow. And the logic is still quite simple: Bad products lead to loss of sales which lead to bad results which lead to loss of share price, and value, for shareholders. FDEV share price in the last year is but one exemple of this.

Shareholder (and board) control is a key balance mechanism of proper corporate governance, one that is sorely lacking at CIG (unless the Calders investment got them a significant say in CIG strategic decision making).

Was that why Braben stepped down from the CEO role after almost 30 years leading the company?

Now speaking of CIG the funny thing is that, unlike FDEV, CIG has actually issued dividends to its owners (the Calders, Chris Roberts himself, Ortwin etc) to the tune of £1,007,559 paid in dividends to owners, plus someone cashed out £1m in shares. Chris Roberts owns around 65-75% of CIG so make the maths about how much in dividends he awarded to himself.

As you said, that is what I would actually call a "big fat bonus" indeed!

The perks of being able to attract wealthy investors and growing your company value.

And that is on top of the annual director salaries. For info, in the case of Erin Roberts his salary was £414,359 in 2020, up from £363,425 in 2019. Now you can imagine the salaries Chris Roberts and Ortwin pay themselves, plus Sandi... And that in a company that allegedly hasn't released a single product yet and is still crowdfunding. It is just truly remarkable.

Dividends is something usually reserved for companies that have already formally released a product that they can account profits on, but here we are.

Ahaha not at all, Erin wished he earned that much eh.

You're mistakenly assuming that the value of "£414,359 in 2020" is one person's salary when it's the sum of ALL the Director's salary together.

I am afraid they are not. As far as we know CIG has not really publicly confirmed SC is released in any way (weather early access or gold release). At least not publicly enough. So according to CIG itself there is no product yet made by them to claim any revenues they can use as own resources. So far, it is still all allegedly crowdfunding, so CIG is working on our dime, not theirs.

Using own cash reserves following released product sales, raising cash in exchange of equity or asking for loans are all exemples of actually working on your own dime. All of those exemples carry constraints and/or obligations for the one using the cash and therefore all losses and liability for misuse fall squarely on the company using it. With crowdfunding (and the abusive CIG ToS) on the other hand CIG has pretty much zero obligations in general, and zero risks or liability if the money is misused, it would be a case of "oups, sorry guys, we tried, thanks for your money and trust, bye!" and that is it... Because they are working with our money, our risk, not theirs.

But it is their money and Star Citizen is released in a early-access-game-as-Service kind of way, as per Chris Roberts and per court.

More and more new people are paying to be able to join Star Citizen, hence the influx of new players and the focus on helping those players with "help a noob tutorial program".

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Youtuber LvLCap explaining the importance of server meshing and Star Citizen's next 3.18 update.


30+ x 60+ Battle between 2 PVP Guilds from several points of view:

[Cloverfield]

There's nothing subjective about numbers though. Both funding and player engagement has grown considerably in the last years. Funding and player concurrency records have been broken for consecutive years.

You were not discussing actual concurrency figures though but your personal views on player growth based on your personal perception of "new players" in the servers asking for help, but without discussing players leaving:

There's been a big influx of new players in the servers asking for help.

And which is extremely subjective since you will likely default to confirm your own bias. My personal perception suggests that many players have also left Star Citizen due to its sub par quality and extreme brokenness.

As for the actual concurrency what would really help here would be CIG publishing auditable real time live concurrency figures. The fact that CIG, the self proclaimed most transparent development ever, has not yet published those over 8+ years suggests the real situation is perhaps not that rosy.

And as for funding, well, see Theranos which got 1.4 billions including a handful of significant investors, some of whom later sued.

Just checking his youtube channel he has multiple videos of several different games, mostly seems to like First-Person-games so Star Citizen seems a natural choice, that it ended up his most viewed video this year is just a testament of what his viewers find entertaining.

He has much longer series of vids with other games that give him on average much less views per vid. The explanation for this is probably the simplest one: He probably rather play and stream other games that he has more fun with and that are much less broken.

That said, I'll add again my own speculation: Given jackfrags controversial relationship with paid for promotion and CIG's apparent keenness to sponsor this kind stuff (Rexzilla etc), the likelihood of those few vids being a sponsored job by CIG (directly or indirectly) are quite high, which always helps when the product is difficult to work with.

So you're saying Frontier released the Odyssey update in a severely broken state loosing thousands of players trust and hurting and future sales just because they wanted?

Not really. It is a basic principle in business: Often times companies can not simply just afford to continue throwing good resources and money after bad, with zero returns. At some point when a product or project development is not going the way you want companies need to take a decision to either throw the towel completely and cancel, or cut their losses and launch. That way they at least can recover some of the investment with eventual sales (even if poor), and move on. Learn what you can from a bad project and improve on the next etc. But that is the real world of business. Companies some times need to do that especially when they are funding those projects on their own dime.

CIG on the other hand does not care at all about wasting resources, because they are wasting other peoples money in it, our money. The fact Chris Roberts and his family are enriching themselves in the process also helps. Which brings us to the next point:

The perks of being able to attract wealthy investors and growing your company value.

Dividends are offered from profits of products already released when a company does not have anywhere else reasonable to invest that money on. Given Star Citizen is not released yet (at least not in any widely announced way), and SQ42 is definitely not released yet, given there is still metric tons of work to be done (and to be paid for) and given CIG pledged to use all backer's money for the development of the game, Chris Roberts paying himself and other co owners £1,007,559 in dividends seems a clear abuse of the trust deposited in him by backers.

Ahaha not at all, Erin wished he earned that much eh.

True. Let me correct that:

Remuneration to the highest paid director: £292,322 in 2020, up from £283,192

That is around US$375,000 for 2020. Now you can imagine the salaries Chris Roberts and Ortwin pay themselves, plus Sandi... And that in a company that allegedly hasn't released a single product yet and is still crowdfunding. It is just truly remarkable.

But it is their money and Star Citizen is released in a early-access-game-as-Service kind of way, as per Chris Roberts and per court.

Ah, so the way to argue that it is their own money now needs you to acknowledge that SC is already released in early access? That is refreshing If SC is indeed released already as early access then I am looking forward to the game reviews!

SC being formally released in early access would be shocking and interesting news indeed, especially for those backers who believe they were sold a product that would be released when complete and not half arsed, and also for the usual game critics that may have held their reviews on the (now wrong?) assumption that Star Citizen is not released yet. I do not see SC early access release mentioned officially anywhere in the game website though and it is significant enough for it to be prominently displayed. Can you please point me to where in the website CIG says SC is released in early access?

[Kyanion]

I think you've got misguided with those timelines there and misunderstand the extra complexity involved in making Star Citizen and Squadron 42 though crowdfunding and a brand new studio.

The crowdfunding campaign was launched in October of 2012. From then on with the funding they got they started hiring and building the company while modifying CryEngine to allow them to make the game like they wanted.

In 2014 they opened the UK office which is the one doing most of the SQ42 work, and in 2015 they opened the Frankfurt office with the german team ex-crytek-Frankfurt. Which opened up the planetary generation tech and increased the scope of both games SC and SQ42 significantly. They've been working and increasing their work force every year, partnering with another studio in Canada Turbulent and acquiring a share in it and hiring even more developers there.

The endeavour of making a game of the scope and scale and detail of Star Citizen is significantly more complex and costly (both in time and money) than making a game like WoW. Just like the endeavour of making a game of the scale, scope and detail of Squadron 42 is significantly more complex and costly than making RDR2 for mostly because of scale, as in details SQ42 is aiming for the quality and polish of Rockstar and Naughty dog games, but done in a open galaxy with a lot of freedom and different ways to complete missions instead of the traditional open world but on rails story mode of RDR2.

Dude, not even going to bother linking you to the dates yet again. You can ignore them all you like but Pre-production started in 2010 from CR himself. I don't give a flying fuck about making a studio and all the other nonsense, they had estimated this in their stated original dates. The fact is the game has been in pre-production since 2010 and this is now year 12 of the project. Pathetic.

[MrAnderson]

You were not discussing actual concurrency figures though but your personal views on player growth based on your personal perception of "new players" in the servers asking for help, but without discussing players leaving.
And which is extremely subjective since you will likely default to confirm your own bias. My personal perception suggests that many players have also left Star Citizen due to its sub par quality and extreme brokenness.
As for the actual concurrency what would really help here would be CIG publishing auditable real time live concurrency figures. The fact that CIG, the self proclaimed most transparent development ever, has not yet published those over 8+ years suggests the real situation is perhaps not that rosy.

But I'm discussing actual public numbers (financial & engagement) While corroborating them with my experience as a regular player.
It's something anyone who've been actually following and playing the game since inception wouldn't even argue with.
As this is a project that as seen considerably growth in all those fronts beating records every year:
- Funding numbers
- Citizen Numbers
- Subscribers (Yes, Star Citizen has subscribers - They made 4.690.000$ in Subs in 2020 @ 12$ or 24$ per month)
- Player Engagement (Twitch, Google, YouTube, Reddit)

And as for funding, well, see Theranos which got 1.4 billions including a handful of significant investors, some of whom later sued.

The last ones who desperately tried to tie "random fraud" narratives with CIG got lost in a Trumpism escapism black-whole to never be heard again or ended up going down a spiral of dark path to never recover. I'm sure you'll have your reasons to stretch reality, not sure you'll find them worth it at the end of the road.

He has much longer series of vids with other games that give him on average much less views per vid. The explanation for this is probably the simplest one: He probably rather play and stream other games that he has more fun with and that are much less broken.

That said, I'll add again my own speculation: Given jackfrags controversial relationship with paid for promotion and CIG's apparent keenness to sponsor this kind stuff (Rexzilla etc), the likelihood of those few vids being a sponsored job by CIG (directly or indirectly) are quite high, which always helps when the product is difficult to work with.

Looking at his youtube vid's he's got like 20+ different videos of games he played. His top chart has all kinds of games from Battlefield, COD Warzone, Battlefront, Sea of Thieves, Apex Legends, PUBG, CSGO. SW Squadrons and only then Star Citizen which he did like 6 videos which is 5 more than he did about NoManSky and 6 more than he did about Elite:Odyssey..

Not really. It is a basic principle in business: Often times companies can not simply just afford to continue throwing good resources and money after bad

Too bad they wasted money on Theme Parks and such instead of focusing on fulfilling Elite's original scope.
Publishers wish uhm.

Ah, so the way to argue that it is their own money now needs you to acknowledge that SC is already released in early access? That is refreshing If SC is indeed released already as early access then I am looking forward to the game reviews!

Star Citizen Alpha has been available to download and play since 2013, It has been playable, developed and improved all these years.
It reached such a playable state equal to Early State in 2016 with 3.0 as stated by Chris Roberts and confirmed by CIG in court.

Since then this early-access product has largely leveraged the constant funding and hype around the project. The latest funding spree of the last years is the result of increased efforts put into performance, features and QOL. All that with the absolute knowledge that Squadron 42 is in development without a release date, yet the funding keeps growing.

Speaking of Free Flights. There's another one coming up after tomorrow. It's the ShipShowdown Free-Fly featuring the "best" 8 ships to test for free. Elite 8 Free Fly

Just click > Play Now < in the website after tomorrow and

Have Fun!

PS- 6 Reasons to Uninstall Star Citizen



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Dude, not even going to bother linking you to the dates yet again. You can ignore them all you like but Pre-production started in 2010 from CR himself. I don't give a flying fuck about making a studio and all the other nonsense, they had estimated this in their stated original dates. The fact is the game has been in pre-production since 2010 and this is now year 12 of the project. Pathetic.

You're mixing the crowdfunding campaign stage with the actual development stage.
Not hard to accept that their initial plans were updated to accommodate the increase in funding and support.
No need to hang on pathetic grieves over misguided preconceptions. It's all game development after all.

[Kyanion]

You're mixing the crowdfunding campaign stage with the actual development stage.
Not hard to accept that their initial plans were updated to accommodate the increase in funding and support.
No need to hang on pathetic grieves over misguided preconceptions. It's all game development after all.

Yup, game development that will be in year 13 in a few months. Truly the Duke Nukem of MMOs. Wait. The Duke Nukem of Space Sims? No that's not it either. The Duke Nukem of single player games...Fuck...

The Duke Nukem of a game with no direction?

[Orange Joe]

@Cloverfield all sponsored videos on YouTube are required to say so.

[Gorsameth]

@Cloverfield all sponsored videos on YouTube are required to say so.

required and actually are are different things. Not like youtube can check if you've received money from CiG.

[Orange Joe]

required and actually are are different things. Not like youtube can check if you've received money from CiG.

If you want to fuck with the ftc go ahead. I doubt they are going to risk it when most people don't really care if it's sponsored

[Edge-]

required and actually are are different things. Not like youtube can check if you've received money from CiG.

No, but after some drama surrounding this many years ago where the FTC actually got involved, nobody wants to play this game of chicken anymore. It's not worth it for the YouTuber (especially for what would likely be smaller-dollar sponsorships) nor is it worth the risk for the company usually.

[MrAnderson]

Yup, game development that will be in year 13 in a few months. Truly the Duke Nukem of MMOs. Wait. The Duke Nukem of Space Sims? No that's not it either. The Duke Nukem of single player games...Fuck...

The Duke Nukem of a game with no direction?

Wouldn't be better when making your case if you compared it with projects of similar scope and type aka crowdfunded.
Or just acknowledging that games of lesser scope by bigger, richer and established companies have also taken a long time to develop is that hard.
And before anyone asks, I'm still not recommending to buy Star Citizen if what you want is a polished and smooth gaming experience. If you're really curious and have the rig to play it (SSD+16gigs ram min) check the free-fly's. Nothing to lose if it's not for you yet. Keep waiting just like we're waiting to play Starfield and Beyond Good & Evil 2 when ready.

[Kyanion]

Wouldn't be better when making your case if you compared it with projects of similar scope and type aka crowdfunded.
Or just acknowledging that games of lesser scope by bigger, richer and established companies have also taken a long time to develop is that hard.
And before anyone asks, I'm still not recommending to buy Star Citizen if what you want is a polished and smooth gaming experience. If you're really curious and have the rig to play it (SSD+16gigs ram min) check the free-fly's. Nothing to lose if it's not for you yet. Keep waiting just like we're waiting to play Starfield and Beyond Good & Evil 2 when ready.

Ah so you want to compare it to what exactly? What similar scope AND crowdfunded game is there? What ones have taken 10 years from getting money to develop their game? Aren't you the one that has multiple times compared SC to WoW, FF, Red Dead Redemption 2 and so on? Why all of a sudden does your game need special shielding from scrutiny?

What games have taken 12 years with 497+ million dollars and still have not delivered their game?

[Santti]

Ah so you want to compare it to what exactly? What similar scope AND crowdfunded game is there? What ones have taken 10 years from getting money to develop their game? Aren't you the one that has multiple times compared SC to WoW, FF, Red Dead Redemption 2 and so on? Why all of a sudden does your game need special shielding from scrutiny?

What games have taken 12 years with 497+ million dollars and still have not delivered their game?

I think asking these questions from someone who has been hyping up the game in this thread since at least 2015 is kind of a lost cause at this point. There is some serious delusions going on, or he has a vested interest in seeing it get released.

But I'm sure, this time, this will be it. The game to save us from the mediocrity of all the other games. This will be different. Until it isn't, and we hype the next game, and learn nothing. Cyberpunk? Never heard of it.

Sigh...

[Jastall]

I think asking these questions from someone who has been hyping up the game in this thread since at least 2015 is kind of a lost cause at this point. There is some serious delusions going on, or he has a vested interest in seeing it get released.

But I'm sure, this time, this will be it. The game to save us from the mediocrity of all the other games. This will be different. Until it isn't, and we hype the next game, and learn nothing. Cyberpunk? Never heard of it.

Sigh...

Keep in mind, this has been in development longer than Cyberpunk has been teased, pre-produced, produced, launched, patched, and probably expanded on as well.

[Corvus]

Keep in mind, this has been in development longer than Cyberpunk has been teased, pre-produced, produced, launched, patched, and probably expanded on as well.

Correct. CP2077 just had its first DLC announced, plus a big patch.

[banmebaby]

SC community: "Other space sims communities are flocking to Star Citizen!"

Also SC community:



https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen..._the_refundes/

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen...this_is_how_i/

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen..._never_settle/

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen...true_believer/

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen...ater_is_burnt/

Weird fantasy that large parts of gaming communities are bailing on the shit they play just to keep repeating the extremely limited broken content in the one and only solar system available till the next server wipe hits, especially when unlike SC, you can actually see the online player averages.

[qwerty123456]

- Subscribers (Yes, Star Citizen has subscribers - They made 4.690.000$ in Subs in 2020 @ 12$ or 24$ per month)

Is that 4 million in subs a month or 4 million for the year?

[banmebaby]

Pre-alpha game not even halfway done priced at 40$, with an optional subscription and "microtransactions" that go up to the thousands of dollars, because why the fuck not, not only people will pay for it, they will make sure to proudly brag about it every year while talking shit about other video games monetization ;D When I grow up I want to be just like Chris Roberts.